Episode VIII opening scroll?

I realy want to see the continuation of that scene on Ahch-to, but then again it could be potentially jarring not to have the time jump. Perhaps they could cut to an opening scene with the Resistance evacuating or maybe Kylo returning to Snoke, and then cut back to Ahch-to. Still, it could feel a little odd.

I don't think they'll do this, but it would be cool if there was a 'prologue' or 'prequel' which was posted online, and that would be the continuation of the scene.

 

I see, an interesting take on the post TFA galaxy although I'd still find it a bit jarring to open Ep.VIII with the NR randomly turning on the Resistance rather than fighting the FO. It would be like the USA declaring war upon Australia, British Commonwealth, after the attack on Pearl Harbour. I also assume that the FO would be taking advantage of the NR's weakness to press their military advantage so I'm not sure the NR would have the time nor idiocy to declare the Resistance enemies and hunt them down.

Of course, this is assuming that the NR still exists in Ep.VIII.

haha, I'm just preparing everyone for the worst case scenario. Not that Luke teaching Rey via piggyback wouldn't be hilarious.

 

Thanks, Just Passing Through.

As I tried to show through the four links and canon references in my earlier post, the Resistance does not enjoy favorable and widespread acceptance as of The Force Awakens. They are only indirectly, unofficially, and secretly supported by a couple of leaders in the New Republic.

Interactions between the First Order and the Resistance left the galaxy in a very precarious state at the end of The Force Awakens.

What happened in the Hosnian System would likely polarize the galaxy into two camps: those systems which would further fear the First Order, and those who would feel General Leia was justified in her concerns and founding of the Resistance.

The First Order, in citing the Resistance in their eve of Hosnian devastation, openly brand the Resistance loathsome. Between that, and their likely ability to spread unfavorable propaganda throughout the galaxy, the Resistance might not enjoy a boost in popularity.

This is the same galaxy that, just a few years before, saw the rise and fall the Empire and all the suffering that brought with it. It is a question of how many systems would likely be in favor, after the Hosnian disaster, of seeing -- or, worse, experiencing -- extended conflict.

After the loss of the Starkiller Base, the First Order, which has already been shown to be a meaner, leaner Empire version 2.0 upgrade, would likely want to go into overdrive to demonstrate they are still very much around and still very much in control and something to be feared.

Which means they would likely be even more eager to make examples of any world found to be aligned with or aiding the Resistance. Doing so would further unfairly tarnish the Resistance's reputation and make it harder for them to protect systems opposed to the First Order.

Let us also not forget that the New Republic's rise parallels the First Order's resurrection:

• the First Order was created out of the ashes of the old Empire
• the New Republic was formed out of the remnants and reformation of the earlier Republic

This means, those worlds which improbably embraced the concept of a First Galactic Empire and an Emperor Palpatine, might also, based on similar concerns and/or needs (e.g. economic/trade, resources) initially embrace a First Order-ruled galaxy instead of a Resistance-liberated one.

So part of Leia's mission could then be to convince systems and the New Republic itself that she was right, uncovering First Order war crimes, such as the invasion and executions on Jakku, and, of course, the Hosnian System.

JediMasterRobert

 

I believe that some of the extra materials have indicated that some NR senators/officials are either sympathetic to the FO or actual moles for them. That some systems would join the FO, either from fear or genuine belief in the FO ideology, is a high probability but that the remaining systems loyal to the NR would blame the Resistance for the destruction of the Hosnian system rather than the FO seems to be counter intuitive, to me at least.

If I am allowed to continue the real world parallels, this would be the equivalent of the US government declaring the American volunteers in China, such as the Flying Tigers et al, enemies of the state after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour. I'm sure that a lot of the American public considered these young men as blood thirsty adventurers before the outbreak of hostilities but once they had been attacked all the furore was directed at the Japanese rather than their adventurers.

That the Resistance isn't supported by the majority of the NR isn't so much to do with FO propaganda, as far as I'm aware, but because most of the NR, like you say, is not very keen on more warfare which in itself mirrors the Allied nations in the run up to WW2. Is it impossible for the FO to cover up the fact that they destroyed the NR capital and fleet? No, but I think it would be incredibly difficult if we consider that no other group is known to be hostile to the NR nor have territory in the Unknown regions where Star Killer base was fired.

I view the destruction of the Hosnian system as the opening salvo of another galactic war, turning this cold war 'hot', rather than a sneak attack that will be quickly swept under the rug or blamed on another group.

 

The First Order strikes at the New Republic because of the Resistance. The New Republic is directly accused of acquiescing to disorder in secretly enabling the Resistance.

So the possible rationale for surviving New Republic systems blaming the Resistance for the First Order's strike on the Hosnian System can be found right in the middle of Hux's speech:

The "treachery" part pits the Resistance (already looked down-upon by certain members of the Republic) directly against the New Republic and the Galactic Concordance (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Galactic_Concordance).

A key part of the Galactic Concordance (peace treaty) is something called the Military Disarmament Act (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Military_Disarmament_Act):

And yet:

And so:

General Leia was already said to be "ostracized" before The Force Awakens.

After the events in the film, she will either be:

• regarded as a hero
• or considered the primary catalyst (in founding and leading the Resistance) which opened the door to First Order atrocities.

Then again, maybe all of this gets brushed aside and the otherwise complex politics behind these events get streamlined or dumbed-down for Episode VIII so that it's simply a "galaxy vs. the First Order" conflict.

Given what's at stake, there would more realistically be a variety of views amid the new confusion of a galaxy suddenly (once again) plunged into chaos.

JediMasterRobert

 

I don't think the ST will touch very heavily on politics but I hope that the rest of the trilogy will cover more than TFA, which left most people confused as to what was happening when the Hosnian system was destroyed. However, I don't disagree with your projection based upon its complexity but because it doesn't make sense to me, from a logical standpoint. I'll try and explain why.

First, let's set out what state we assume the NR is in at the end of TFA for this scenario. If it is still an existing state then naturally the first thing the NR will do is elect a new senate, or declare an emergency one, and form a wartime government. After all they have just been space nuked by a radical remnant of the Empire and I don't foresee any scenario where the NR still exists after TFA and isn't at war with the FO.

Now during this ensuing galactic conflict does it make sense for the NR to declare the Resistance, the group which destroyed Star killer base and has been warning the NR about the FO for some time, enemies of the state when they are both fighting the FO? Especially when the Resistance is composed of former NR military personal and several heroes from the last Galactic War who were ultimately proved right about the FO.

Furthermore, ask yourself, if your capital had just been nuked because some of your politicians, if not your official government, supported a resistance group in the aggressor state would your first reaction be "I understand why you just nuked me FO, it's all that pesky Resistance's fault"?

If the FO had simply been exterminating the Resistance I'm sure the NR would not have intervened or cared very much, blaming the Resistance for their warmongering ways, but that isn't the case. The FO has destroyed the core of the NR political structures, composed of both the hawks and doves, which would quickly convince the appeasers that war with Germany FO is unavoidable.

 

I hope so, too, because all of that was so quickly glossed over that the enormity of the First Order's atrocities was minimized by the narrative's pacing. So neither the inhabitants of those worlds had time to understand what was going on nor necessarily did the audience.

The Galactic Concordance, the Act, etc., are all more complication back stories which I do not expect to be covered at length in the next two films, but not all of those details should be entirely dumbed down for the audience.

The First Order's rapid reasoning in focusing on the Hosnian System and linking the New Republic with the Resistance could have used some more substantiation somewhere in the narrative.

How this works out over the next two films comes down to how the storytellers want to approach this:

• do they want to toy with the idea of making the Resistance the enemy (therefore complicating matters and giving Leia a real diplomatic mission to undo such thinking in the New Republic)
• or do they want to simply make the Resistance the Rebel Alliance 2.0 (which essentially it could be, at the moment, minus the support of key systems in the galaxy) and make it an easy Resistance vs. First Order conflict.

I think the first option makes for greater intrigue and breaks from the Original Trilogy pattern in a new way, as it would enable Leia to take charge in a non-militant way and tap her original diplomatic expertise once again to rally the shattered galaxy and build a Newer Republic founded on a new accord which looks past the First Order and defines a new era of peace all worlds would want to support.

JediMasterRobert

 

I fervently hope that they're not going to go with the second of those two options but I'm anxiously awaiting whether they are actually going to have the NR destroyed at the end of TFA, such a lazy reset by Abrams.

However, your first option still doesn't make sense. If the NR survives the Hosnian system attack then there is already a designated enemy in the trilogy, the First Order. Why would they need to make the Resistance the enemy when the NR is already going to be fighting the FO? Why would the NR fight a faction that is already fighting their enemy?

Yes the Resistance has been violating the Galactic Concordance by fighting the FO but, as the end of TFA revealed, the FO has been violating the GC to a much greater extent and have just nuked the NR capital.

The way I see it, if the New Republic is still functioning and starting to recover after TFA, something I desperately want, then the Resistance is a redundant organisation that should realistically rejoin what's left of the NR and help it rebuild the NR military. I had a whole topic about this subject in greater detail somewhere around here.

 

It remains to be seen if what is left of the New Republic has the support to formally oppose the First Order:

partly because the New Republic fleet was also part of the Hosnian wipeout.

How this aspect of this plotline eventually works out boils down to who are the more influential worlds still in play and where they actually stand with regards to the Resistance and the First Order.

Does the Resistance now become:

• the widely supported officially sanctioned Defenders of the New Republic?
• Or, after all that has happened (on top of any potential First Order propaganda and crackdowns to follow) does the Resistance become a further outcast and officially renounced thing due to the Hosnian situation?

I have no doubt General Leia could mount a convincing campaign to rally systems to the cause, joining the Resistance against the First Order.

The Resistance, after all, was formed as a direct result of the existence of the First Order.

Which leads us to this point:

Both sides have virtually voided the Galactic Concordance, which means the situation just got very complicated and open to many various possibilities now, depending on where the writers want to take this.

JediMasterRobert

 

But if the NR does not have the support to formally oppose the FO then the NR will not exist as of TFA. The FO fired Star Killer with the intention of destroying the Republic which they will no doubt continue the process of dismantling the NR and conquering the galaxy. Why would the FO allow the NR to carry on existing if it doesn't have the strength to resist them. A Vichy New Republic seems like an unlikely eventuality.

Again, the systems that are sympathetic to the FO will most likely directly defect to the FO rather than remain as part of a toothless NR. The FO isn't just going to let the NR go back to ignoring them in a vain attempt at appeasement. After the Star Killer attack the NR is the weakest it will ever be and Hux himself stated that they were going to see the end of the Republic so why wouldn't the FO simply carry on with the conquest of the galaxy with their hidden fleets?

If the FO has conquered the galaxy then naturally then would declare the Resistance as enemies of the state and then we're right back to Empire vs Rebels but I can't realistically foresee a scenario whereby the NR is still standing, the FO wouldn't have it as a puppet state, and has declared the Resistance enemies.

 

Yes! This is it -- this is how that one part I had proposed in the Episode VIII opening crawl comes about.

The First Order has exerted their will over the galaxy, and not in a peaceful way. They are truly horrific.

The First Order is not interested in any Galactic Concordance.

Remember Hux's closing words in his speech, right before the Hosnian tragedies:

The First Order are essentially Empire v2.0, upgraded but wrought of the same darkness and destructive tendencies, still an Empire on steroids:

much larger Death Star, fancier/more capable Stormtroopers and TIE fighters, larger shuttles and Star Destroyers (e.g. the Finalizer), etc.

Snoke's larger agenda might help us better discern between Empire v1.0 and this newer First Order, along with Kylo Ren's character arc.

JediMasterRobert

 

Ah I see, I think our discussion has been all for naught as it is based upon a misunderstanding. In your original post, with the Ep.VIII crawl, the NR declares the Resistance as enemies of the state which didn't make sense to me. If the FO has conquered the galaxy, the NR not existing anymore, and declared the Resistance enemies of the state then that makes perfect sense. Obviously that's not how I would like the ST to go but it makes sense.

 

Actually, I am very grateful for all your questions and the excellent points and examples you provided!

It enabled me to give more thought to this as well as to (hopefully) share some potential insights regarding the state of the galaxy in this Sequel Trilogy.

I believe the New Republic will find a way forward, possibly through the strength and persistence of General Leia. I believe she can do that.

The First Order will need to be deconstructed and disbanded, and hopefully in a way that will not enable an Empire v3.0 to arise down the road.

Finn, the awakened Stormtrooper, and others (a defecting Captain Phasma?) could possibly help with that, liberating rather than conquering the Order from within.

So many ways these things can be worked out.

Thanks again for the great dialogue!

JediMasterRobert

 

My speculations

1. The Opening Crawl might focus on The Resistance and The First Order as a whole. Might be about General Leia travel to the emergency meeting at the temporary senate to decide whether to declare war against the First Order or not. Some politics and some Leia's speeches. We also know that the Republic has many traitors, corrupted politician. Leia might be captured at this time.

Remember Leia's dress at the end of the Force Awakens? That too much for Rey's farewell. She might wear the dress to join the meeting right after Rey'd gone.

2. After the opening crawl, we will see both sides of leading characters struggling. While Rey has an awkward moment with Luke.
General Hux took injured Kylo Ren to Snoke, and get his punishment.

3. The scene might happen before the opening crwal, right after 'Lucas film' logo.

 

I really don't want VIII to start up right where VII finished. I think there should be a time jump. Otherwise, we will have to sit through Rey's jedi training, which I don't think we need to see. Jump ahead to where Rey has been trained and Kylo has completed his training and is now a full fledged Sith or whatever. Then the opening crawl briefly mentions what has happened in the interim and sets the stage for what is going to happen in VIII, and also mentions that Chewie has won the Intergalactic Smooth Playa Award!

 

I don't think we will see any jedi training from Rey, Luke's mindset would not be focused on that if he lost his previous padawans,Kylo completed his training way before TFA he just saw distracted with the potential Rey & skill with the force,as for Chewie award well deserved.