1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

Even as someone who likes the ST, there's

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by kuatorises, May 5, 2020.

  1. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Posts:
    194
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    427
    Credits:
    550
    Ratings:
    +288 / 45 / -52
    something that always bothered me about them.

    There's virtually no look into the lives of the big three over the last 30 years. Yeah, we know Luke started a new Jedi Order and Han and Leia had marital problems, but that's just surface stuff. There was no in-depth look at it.

    I'm not talking about flashback scenes with questionable CGI either. You don't have to attempt to recreate it, but you could have showed it to us through conversations. The Luke and Leia reunion in TLJ was great, but they don't talk about much. I know they were in the middle of a conflict they were trying to survive, but there was no other instances where they interacted.

    One thing I always wondered was how Leia felt about finding out Vader was her father. Luke was frustratingly forgiving in ROTJ. He would not attempt to save Vader if he wasn't related to him. I always hated that about the Skywalkers. But Vader and Leia had a different relationship. It was not a good one. I cannot see Leia being all, "But he's my father", like Luke. Not exploring that is a missed opportunity imo.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Posts:
    524
    Likes Received:
    927
    Trophy Points:
    4,517
    Credits:
    2,008
    Ratings:
    +1,412 / 37 / -4
    The realization that Vader is her father was already shown in ROTJ. I know that it initially seems odd that basically what happens was:

    Luke: Vader is my father
    Leia: (Huge reaction)
    Luke: He’s also your father
    Leia: (modest reaction)

    But there is actually a really simple explanation for this. All you have to do is think about what Leia actually says when Luke reveals they are siblings:

    I know. On some level, I’ve always known.

    Leia already knew they were siblings. That means that when Luke reveals Vader is his father, Leia has already figured out what this means for her. The big reaction is for both of them.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 2
  3. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,437
    Likes Received:
    32,261
    Trophy Points:
    159,167
    Credits:
    23,726
    Ratings:
    +40,382 / 155 / -97
    Largely because the trilogy isn't actually about those 3. It's about the next generation dealing with the fallout from the events of the OT.
    The OT doesn't give you a lot into the lives of the surviving members of the PT in the gap. That mostly comes after the fact.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  4. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Posts:
    194
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    427
    Credits:
    550
    Ratings:
    +288 / 45 / -52
    And look how that turned out. Again, I like the new ones, but I'm not gonna sit here and pretend the new group is loved or that people weren't annoyed by the "treatment" of the original 3.

    Well, the PT was made after the OT, sooooooo......
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2018
    Posts:
    180
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    457
    Credits:
    482
    Ratings:
    +344 / 11 / -4
    Generations dealing w/ the fall of the Republic (Return of the Sith, Birth of the Empire...)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,437
    Likes Received:
    32,261
    Trophy Points:
    159,167
    Credits:
    23,726
    Ratings:
    +40,382 / 155 / -97
    It just wasn't about them. 40 year old dorks need to get over the fact Lucas made the PT and not the Marvelous Adventures of Han, Luke and Leia; when this would have been a viable option 20+ years ago. That is when the movie you are describing would have been made. Not now when they're all past-prime.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
  7. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,061
    Likes Received:
    17,229
    Trophy Points:
    145,167
    Credits:
    16,808
    Ratings:
    +21,326 / 62 / -37
    While I understand that this wasn't the OT big 3's movie...

    I think they could've still been handled a bit better- especially because it should not have been a surprise that's what a lot of fans were looking forward to.

    Just in general, the table setting of the ST suffered quite a bit, in my opinion. Not just in filling us in on the OT big 3, but the state of the galaxy in general.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Posts:
    194
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    427
    Credits:
    550
    Ratings:
    +288 / 45 / -52
    We know she knows. I'm not talking about her knowing, but how she feels about it. She Maclunkey detested Vader. I can't see her - or Han for that matter - being too keen on her relation to him; particularly at the time of ROTJ when Luke deified him. Coulda played right into Ben's obsession with him and their marriage falling apart.

    There's so much stuff that people wanted to know. It'll get relegated to books and comics. Even those have (surprisingly) not explored that time period in between or leading up to the ST.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2020, Original Post Date: May 6, 2020 ---


    You're talking about something separate. It's not 20 years ago and never will be. You can't ask for the impossible and I'm not. I'm just talking about a little more exploration into them. I don't have to see something to know it happened. We know about The Clone Wars, Vader, Anakin, Boba Fett's reputation as a killer, because the OT told us about or implied them. There was discussion about or peeks into things we never saw happen, but know they did. HELL, that is why the prequels are so disappointing - they showed us everything and it was kinda disappointing. Same with Prometheus. Less is more.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Posts:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    4,366
    Trophy Points:
    13,687
    Credits:
    5,667
    Ratings:
    +6,619 / 175 / -38
    I always felt the best ST story would have been from the novel 'Bloodline.' Episode 7 would be about Chancellor Leia being exposed in the Senate as Darth Vader's daughter by a Phantom Menace (the new villain). The new Trilogy could have been the fallout of the next generation of Skywalkers (all good guys) and how they handle the new conflict as the galaxy takes sides. There will be people that take Leia's back and support her and others that don't trust her (who getting fronted by this new villain), and that is the Civil War to save the public. The ST would essentially be about Darth Vader's legacy and how the grandchildren essentially repair the Skywalker name and save the Republic from crumbling inside.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  10. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Posts:
    194
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    427
    Credits:
    550
    Ratings:
    +288 / 45 / -52
    See, now that's the kinda blast I'm talking about! Sounds like a fun book!

    I cannot believe Luke and Liea being Vader's children was not explored. I could see conflict between the two of them, Leia/Han and Luke, the galaxy and ALL of them. It's not rational, but people do this kinda stuff all the time. "They are Vader's children?! Get them!" It could have worked brilliantly, especially since Ben is Maclunkey nuts and worships is psychopath grandfather, and Luke - at least ROTJ Luke - was so hung up on making him appear like a hero.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,026
    Likes Received:
    4,987
    Trophy Points:
    13,017
    Credits:
    5,024
    Ratings:
    +7,571 / 33 / -9
    When Luke makes his parental confession to her, her reaction always resonated to me as disgust. “Your father?!” When she’s then too upset to speak to Han afterward, I assumed it wasn’t about finding out she’d kissed her brother (well, not completely).

    She’s coming to grips with the reality of being this horrifying person’s daughter. The emotions are too big to process and she’s terrified of what the man she loves will think of her now. My read on it anyhow.
    More than anything, I feel, it would have been a fantastic entry point into exploring what the ‘Skywalker’ identity meant to her and the broader world by extension. When Rey then claims that name as her own at the end, it would carry more weight having first been ruminated on by her mentor. Logistically, of course, that wasn’t possible in TROS. Oh well.

    It’s a tricky line to walk though. The ST wanted it both ways: pay respect to these figures, but also clearly center the events around the new cast. More would have been nice, but when does ‘a little more’ become too much more? So long as their personal journeys worked to service the new characters, I guess.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Posts:
    194
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    427
    Credits:
    550
    Ratings:
    +288 / 45 / -52
    That scene only works in ROTJ. They are getting ready for the final act. There's no "time to mourn", so to speak. But Leia is in 6 movies and we don't know a damn thing about any of their lives in between the two series.

    Obi Wan and Yoda are barely in the OT, but most of the time they were,they served as a vehicle for backstories. They were constantly filling us in on the history of this universe and it's characters. That didn't happen in this series and is it's biggest problem besides Johnson going rogue.
     
  13. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,026
    Likes Received:
    4,987
    Trophy Points:
    13,017
    Credits:
    5,024
    Ratings:
    +7,571 / 33 / -9
    Seems to me, the most significant event in all the OT3 lives post ROTJ was the fall of Ben Solo. It shattered Han and Leia’s relationship and sent them reeling in opposite directions - Leia into founding this militia to combat the very fascist cult that ‘stole’ her son, and Han into this sad path of escapist avoidance in self-exile. Luke’s whole character arc in TLJ was dealing with the aftermath of this event. We don’t know every beat, but we got the gist of the one that mattered most to the story of this trilogy.

    Sure, it would have been nice to ‘catch-up’ and explore other experiences they had in-between. They could have also been made to prop up our new team further (to ‘put them over’ as I’ve heard it said), but what we got accomplishes that decently enough, I feel.
    “Constantly”? We got snippets of info. Just enough to put the stakes into context for what was material to the characters. We’re frontloaded with exposition in ANH and then not much more past that. Some more detail to clear up the Vader = Dad confusion and “there is another” and that’s about it. The specifics of how it all played out are left intentionally ambiguous so as not to steal the focus.
    Sure it did. We got Max Von Tekka (Lor San Sydow?) opining for the state of things. We got Han’s soliloquy on the Falcon “it’s all true” - akin to Obi-Wan’s expo-dump to Luke in his hovel of solitude. We got Leia’s ownership over how she felt Ben was “lost”. We got Kylo’s skewed perspective on the matter in TLJ.

    We got enough to put the stakes into context for what was material to the characters. Not enough so we know every detail, but enough so we know the broader strokes and can intuit the rest. That’s Kasdan’s M.O. and I certainly appreciate it.

    I agree in that I would have very much liked more attention been paid to the state of the galaxy as a whole and how it relates to the immediacy of our crew. That was a layer I was sorely missing, but wasn’t so vital that the narrative doesn’t work for me without it.
    I’m not sure how you can classify the 100% endorsement of Lucasfilm as “going rogue”, but OK :)
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  14. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Posts:
    194
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    427
    Credits:
    550
    Ratings:
    +288 / 45 / -52
    Finding out your dad is Space HIitler is a bigger deal, but that's besides not my point. I'm not talking about the most significant event in their lives, I'm talking about how we know nothing about any of those events, big or small. We have absolutely no idea how Leia feels about her heritage or who the Blast Snoke is, for example. And no, I'm not talking about him being a clone of Palpatine. From the characters' perspective, who the Blast is this guy and where did he come from? I read the Rise of Kylo Ren comics and still don't know the answer to those questions. Before I read that series, and particularly after I saw TFA, I thought maybe he was another Jedi master who trained students with Luke, but that doesn't appear to be true. He was just this guy in space. How did Ren find this guy that he liked to use to vent about his dad and uncle? And why did he hate his dad and uncle so much btw? There's no exploration at all about how things got to be the way they were at the point of this trilogy. Ben hated Luke before Luke even tried to "kill" him and we don't know why. And there seems to be no explanation for why he has it in for his old man. That's just one issue (Ben).


    Yeah, constantly. Obi wan in particular. IHe's barely in the 2nd and 3rd movie, but every time he is we learn something (and this comes after an entire movie with him). What he's offering us is snippets, but he's doing it nearly constantly. The mythology and history of this world gets more depth every time him and Yoda speak:













    THAT is how you build a backstory - and without showing us any of the people or events being talked about, no less! There's nothing like that in the entire sequel trilogy that compares to the depth these scenes gave us. Max Von Sydow being on screen for a minute and a half or Han saying "it's all true" (he's talking about the events of the OT, not stuff in between the OT and ST, which is what we're discussing) is not on the same level.

    Mark Hamill went on record several times saying he was not a fan of what Johnson did. And correct me if I'm wrong, but TLJ has the lowest score from the fans in the entire series.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Posts:
    827
    Likes Received:
    1,274
    Trophy Points:
    5,592
    Credits:
    1,408
    Ratings:
    +2,044 / 104 / -32
    There are a large number of factual inaccuracies in this post, which also has its roots in a large number of fallacies and inaccurate beliefs about the period of time in the galaxy that passed between the end of Return of the Jedi and the beginning of The Force Awakens.

    Most of what you seem to want the Sequel Trilogy films to address is completely inconsequential to the story being told by said films, and in those rare cases where the information would have been relevant, it is almost a given that we will be given said information through Canonical sources other than the films.

    You are also cherry-picking and representing Mark Hamill's comments completely out-of-context in order to try and bolster what you believe, which is just plain disrespectful.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,026
    Likes Received:
    4,987
    Trophy Points:
    13,017
    Credits:
    5,024
    Ratings:
    +7,571 / 33 / -9
    Wow. Definitely can’t along with you on that journey, man. Maybe it’s a product of being a parent, but the idea of finding out I RAISED Hitler is far and away more devastating to me than learning I was his kid. You don’t get to pick your parents. It’s luck of the draw. A parent though has influence over who their child becomes.

    “I just never should have sent him away. That's when I lost him.” Leia, true to her character, feels responsible for the fate of her son and carries the burden of believing it was avoidable. All that death and suffering that reaps as a result, hangs over HER head now. The two aren’t remotely comparable. It’s not even close for me.
    I’m aware. Analogously, we also have no idea how Obi-Wan in the OT feels about the division between himself and his best friend Anakin. The betrayal he must have experienced. The sheer loss. The guilt over what he was forced to do to him. The guilt that he hadn’t finished him off and the countless deaths that resulted. The guilt over having failed his master Qui-Gon in fostering the chosen one. The resentment of being saddled with that unfair burden, coupled with the additional burden of living this life of seclusion watching over young Luke.

    We don’t get any of that. Twenty years of unexplored material for a pivotal character. Why? Not just because the prequels hadn’t happened yet, but because it’s not HIS story. The OT is about Luke. It’s HIS journey. More backstory on that end would be lovely and all, but it would also sorely detract from the core focus.

    Let’s take one of the most nakedly expository scenes in all of Star Wars as an example. Obi-Wan and Luke in old Ben’s hut, where Kenobi acts as Professor Explain-it-all and plot vomits all over the screen. First, O.B. connects Luke to his father. Then he connects his father to the Jedi. Then the Jedi to the Old Republic. In reverse staging, he then expresses that the Empire replaced the Republic. That the Empire and Vader together destroyed the Jedi, and lastly, that this Vader guy murdered his father - bringing us full circle back to Luke.

    That “backstory” exchange is NOT about world-building or lore or history for history’s sake. It’s about framing this impersonal galactic civil war in immediate terms that are accessible and pertinent to our main protagonist. The Empire isn’t just some faceless, vaguely malevolent, military industrial complex to Luke after this dialogue. It’s the villain that killed his dad and everything his dad believed in.

    Our hero now has a personal investment in this previously ill-defined conflict. We, the audience, are now likewise invested in his personal investment. We now know why there’s a rebellion. Great! But more importantly, we know why Luke should want to take part in it.

    That scene is all about character motivation. Whatever establishment of ‘mythology’ there is, is subsequent. It’s byproduct. It’s residue. It’s the excess dough left over from baking a sheet of cookies. Yes, it’s tasty, but it’s not the point.
    I know. It’s almost as if he came out of nowhere. Like some wizard simply conjured him up out of thin air or something. Weird, right? ;)
    Hey, I’m mildly curious how this unlikely duo happened to cross paths too. Maybe a teen Ben, in pursuit of a wayward droid, was ambushed by hostile natives and was saved by ‘old Snoke’. Maybe he brought him back to his unassuming shack in the wilderness and hit him with some familial knowledge, sowing seeds of dissention between he and Luke. Maybe even drops the line “that’s your uncle talking”. Golly, we could all uniformly douse our drawers with unbridled glee over the pointless poetry of it. “Hey, that’s a thing I know . . . but from another thing. How profound!”

    Whatever the circumstance, I think we can safely deduce that the two hadn’t met by accident. It was all a calculated manipulation from the start. I can only speak for myself, but the specifics don’t matter much to me. It would probably be something contrived and predictable anyway.
    We got that first bit answered in TLJ. “I didn't hate him.” Ben Solo didn’t hate Han Solo anymore than Anakin hated those younglings he slayed in ROTS. The point of it was to commit to the darkside. To destroy something pure and revel in that pain and anguish. But, as was explained, it didn’t work. “The deed split your spirit to the bone.”
    When was that ever said?
    Every single one of your examples are NOT about mythology or history. Again, they are about shaping Luke’s perspective in regard to his journey. The aspects we learn about in those scenes are in specific regard to what’s relevant for Luke to grasp and no more.

    In ESB, the focus is on “control” and “belief” with respect to Luke and that’s the nature we find out about. The danger facing him is the potentiality of becoming a new Vader - turning to the darkside as his father did. And that’s what those splendid sage moments we enjoy are geared toward. It’s all about him controlling his negative emotions and believing in himself so as not to go the “quicker, easier, more seductive” path.

    In ROTJ, the focus is on ‘attachment’ and how Luke’s feelings towards his loved ones can both be a credit and disservice - a strength and a weakness. That, again, is what those little fireside chats are actually about. NOT mythology or history, but character.
    Well, in your opinion. The focus of the scenes we get are structured very much the same way as the OT. The exposition is tailored toward our new protagonists. It’s the information that is relevant for THEM to know. When Han tells Rey and Finn that the Force is real, that the Jedi were real, that Luke was more than a myth, that’s THEIR first steps into a larger world. What they’d only heard about in stories, what they’d previously relegated to tall tales and legends, are all true. And that’s the core of THEIR journey - embracing the legacy of the past and carrying it forward.

    And if you want enrichment of the nature of the Force or what all, I’ll gladly point to Luke’s ‘first lesson’ to Rey in TLJ as an exceptional entry into that arena.
    Dude, he delivers the thesis statement for the whole trilogy in that read. “This will begin to make things right. I've travelled too far and seen too much to ignore the despair in the galaxy. Without the Jedi, there can be no balance in the Force.” The galaxy is in despair because the Force is out of balance. It’s out of balance because the Jedi have gone. The Jedi are gone because Luke is gone. To make things right, they need Luke to bring back the Jedi. Which he (eventually) does in the form of Rey. Setup >> payoff.
    We don’t really get Han’s take on the Force post ANH, but I can sure as sh*t promise you the guy wasn’t a ‘true believer’ at the end of ROTJ. Why would he be? Because he saw a droid float for a bit? “Simple tricks and nonsense” explains that well enough. No, the place he is at the start of TFA, that’s the last 30 years at work. “A magical power holding together good and evil, the dark side and the light…it's true. The Force. The Jedi. All of it. It's all true.” No apprehension there, the geezer is fully onboard with all that “mumbo-jumbo” now.

    Regardless, what I was more speaking to in that scene is the full on, shameless and unrepentant backstory we get punched with up front. “[Luke] was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice, turned against him, destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible. He just walked away from everything...A lot of rumors. Stories. People that knew him best think he went looking for the first Jedi temple.” Straight up, here’s a history lesson everybody.
    And he’s intitled to that opinion . . . like everyone else.
    I couldn’t possibly say. I’ve never bothered to check. There’s only one person’s assessment of a piece of art that I consider paramount: ME. I couldn’t give a fraction of a d@mn what the mob thinks about . . . well, anything. Hell, no one gave two shakes about ‘Citizen Kane’ when it was released. Were they right then or are they right now? Watch for yourself and decide on your own.

    I know it’s odd for me to say this after defending it, but I’m pretty underwhelmed with the ST as a whole. I definitely think it could have been significantly better. But it deserves to get credit for things it did right and not unduly vilified for the things people perceive as having been done wrong. Especially when that reception is mostly an artifact of personal preference.

    I’d say this thread would be a good companion piece to THE RISE OF SKYWALKER'S BIGGEST SIN thread. There, like here, the criticism is lobbed that a particular thing wasn’t done or wasn’t done ‘correctly’. When, in actuality, the critique really should have been that it wasn’t done the way that person would have preferred. I’d argue that isn’t so much a problem with the movie (or movies), but the filter by which you viewed it - the expectations you brought to it.

    But that’s me and I’m a proven moron . . . every day, it seems :)
     
    #16 eeprom, May 10, 2020
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  17. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Posts:
    194
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    427
    Credits:
    550
    Ratings:
    +288 / 45 / -52
    Stating facts is not "out of context".
     
  18. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Posts:
    827
    Likes Received:
    1,274
    Trophy Points:
    5,592
    Credits:
    1,408
    Ratings:
    +2,044 / 104 / -32
    ^ Hamill's unhappiness with Luke's role in The Last Jedi didn't last long, so trying to use it as a cudgel to bludgeon the film - or the Sequel Trilogy as a whole - is taking his comments out of context and misrepresenting them.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Posts:
    194
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    427
    Credits:
    550
    Ratings:
    +288 / 45 / -52
    You keep trying to bring the conversation back to "What's the biggest event in these people's lives since we last saw them?" Not the issue I brought up in my OP and why I created the thread. Biggest, most insignificant, or somewhere in between...whatever. MY point is we know virtually nothing about these people's lives, the world they live in, or how either got to their current state. Everything in this trilogy is about here and now (and it moves too fast btw). There's no depth. The only one that gave us anything in that department was TFA. JJ does a good job of giving us at least something of a peek of what is happened in Han and Leia's lives, but the other two (and the trilogy overall) is an absolute failure in that sense; particularly with Luke. It's all VERY fast and present. No exploration into this world much at all. It's just a frantic race to the next destination with virtually no backstory.

    But I'll indulge you for a minute. We know nothing about why Ren chose to join the Dark Side. He was in 3 movies, had a 4 issue comicbook series specifically about how he became Kylo Ren and his motives still aren't known! Actual dialogue from TFA; which again is the only movie that even attempted to bring us this kinda stuff before Johnson completely Maclunkey derailed the story and by the time TROS came around the only thing left to do was repair.

    "He means nothing to me."

    "Han Solo. You feel like he's the father you never had. He would've disappointed you."

    "Your son is gone. He was weak and foolish like his father."

    2 movies and several comics later and it's apparent Han nor Leia didn't ANYTHING to Ben to make him so angry. He's just an Peedunky. TFA laid some groundwork for some kind of resentment towards Han. Not only was that not explored ever again, we weren't even given some other kind of replacement motive for why Ren is who he is. The first movie makes it seem like there's a history between the two and then it's nothing after that. This is a huge missed opportunity to give us some kind of backstory for connecting the past to the present; which is exactly what Obi Wan and Yoda do virtually every time they speak with Luke. The purpose of those scenes was to educate both Luke and the audience. This trilogy has none of that.

    We don't know how Obi Wan felt between what happened between him and Anakin, LOL?! Did I read that right? My man, besides the clips I posted that are filled with backstory, he literally tells us:

    "Anakin was a good friend. When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot, but I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong."
     
  20. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,061
    Likes Received:
    17,229
    Trophy Points:
    145,167
    Credits:
    16,808
    Ratings:
    +21,326 / 62 / -37
    Even though I agree that I would've liked a bit more of the original three (especially some sort of scene with all of them together), I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to say that we don't get insight into their lives.

    Let's look at Han in TFA- he's lost the Falcon (which itself has since been clearly modified).

    He's become a smuggler again (with Chewie) and has at least two syndicates after him. He talks about a recent job in which he lost some crew trying to get the rathtars captured. We know that he's Ben's father, and that Kylo Ren's betrayal helped drive him and Leia apart.

    We also see that he's got this sort of friendship with Maz Kanata that we've never seen before, and can surmise that he's considering putting together a new crew (as evidenced by his offer to Rey).


    I mean, I'm always down for more backstory, but that's definitely more than nothing, right?


    One thing that I like about the films with time skips is that they use pretty simple dialogue to do some shortcuts to world building. Han casually mentioning the "bounty hunter on Ord Mantell" while in Echo Base, Lando mentioning the Battle of Taanab, even Obi Wan's cringed comment about the gundark nest. They all serve to remind the viewer that these characters have all experienced adventures together since we last saw them, even if in actuality it might just be a throwaway line of gibberish. It's simple, but I think it's effective.

    I don't think the ST is devoid of this, though I suppose it could've been a bit more robust. For instance, we hear of Luke's temple a few times, but it would've been nice to have a few more lines about that aspect. What was the planet it was on? Were there any assignments that Luke's recruits went on that he could've mentioned?

    How about Leia? She's been leading this Resistance (which, the way the movies portray the differences between the Resistance and New Republic are incredibly difficult to follow... context, people!) for a while, so maybe she could've had a few lines about the skirmishes so far, or even just more of a direct address of her observances of the growing First Order threat. Once again- a little bit of context could've gone a long way.

    So I do think that we aren't totally left in the cold by this, nor would I have wanted Luke to pull out the scrapbook and show the audience everything we've missed these past few decades. But I also don't think it's entirely fair to say that the lack of context we get didn't damage the story. Luke, Han, and Leia are inherently tied to this story and the rise of its conflict. It would've been weird to have ignored them regardless, but now it's actually left some pretty big gaps in the story. Not so much plot holes (because that's a terribly overused term) but at least areas where the audience has to make their own leap while they probably would've genuinely enjoyed being shown a bit more.
     
    • Like Like x 3
Loading...

Share This Page