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Execution VS Outcomes

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by AfraidFool, Mar 5, 2018.

?

Did you dislike the movie because of

  1. Execution

    13 vote(s)
    72.2%
  2. Outcomes

    5 vote(s)
    27.8%
  1. AfraidFool

    AfraidFool Rebel Trooper

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    This thread is intended mostly for people who disliked the movie.
    I find myself a part of a minority within the group of people who 'Hated TLJ'

    I am going to create two possible reasons for disliking this movie
    Execution VS Outcome

    I will explain these in a bit of detail, please read before voting.


    Outcome:
    Ex. Luke's personality
    Ex. Snoke dying without character building
    Ex. Rey being a 'nobody'

    I find these three examples to be the biggest areas of complaint.

    If you disliked the movie because of the Outcome that will mean that you would have disliked the movie no matter how the writer/director went about these outcomes.

    Execution:
    I am in this boat
    Ex. I am fine with Luke's personality, Snoke's 'premature' death, Rey being nobody.
    In theory I believe these were great ways to go.
    In execution I believe they were MASSIVE failures.

    I will go into detail regarding a few points of defense I have seen.

    Snoke's backstory --
    Common defense -- "Palpatine of the OT didn't have backstory either and he served the film just fine"

    I have many issues with this comparison.
    Snoke's death (as well as Palpatine's) was not about Snoke himself, it was a springboard for Kylo's character, therefore the character decision to kill Snoke would need to be developed through Kylo.
    I believe there were 1 possibly 2 scene's in TLJ to show this change in Kylo.
    I believe the OT was successful in this because the decision was developed through Luke and Vader himself, the decision was made to kill Palpatine to save Luke, a character we saw grow and wanted to live. Vader was his Father, and had already previously stated in another movie that he would Kill Palpatine to rule with Luke. The decision and execution was flawless in the OT
    It was a rushed mess in TLJ

    I could go into detail about the other points and how I disagree with the execution but I think ya'll get the point.
     
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  2. Benjamin Lewis

    Benjamin Lewis Rebel Official

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    Finally, a real thread around here.

    I enjoyed TLJ, but had issues with it at the same time. All issues were related to execution of certain events.
     
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  3. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Interesting thoughts, though why not both?

    I do see your points, though.

    For instance, if I was told that Luke and Kylo got an epic samurai style showdown while First Order Walkers loomed above, I'd have been so stoked. What we got was... well, I personally liked it still, but it wasn't exactly what a lot of people including myself initially wanted.
     
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  4. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    I think I'm in the minority of the minority as a Skywalker fan.

    I hate Luke's arc. I hate that he died in 8. I wished he died in 9.

    I hate what happened to Snoke the least but his death was lame. Here is a guy who can bridge minds across a Hucking galaxy but he can't figure out that the "true enemy" some girl Ren met 2 days ago is the thing he really doesn't want to kill. Looks like I'm gonna have to buy that 40 dollar Snoke Origins novel now.

    Finally Rey Random. I can go on and on about this. From "i thought this was about Skywalkers" to because the Force chose her is all the explanation we need.

    I just find her boring & dull now. She's just gonna curb stomp Kylo 4 a third time now. I can care les if Ms. Perfect lives or dies now. Hopefully she does "sacrafise" herself cuz DR wants 2 move on from SW.
     
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  5. Benjamin Lewis

    Benjamin Lewis Rebel Official

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    We finally have a thread asking for actual discussion on the film.

    Do not bring clickbait and false information in here. Leave that s*** to the sexism and hate threads.
     
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  6. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    My choice is not in the poll.

    Oh well.
     
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  7. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    What? What! I dislike a character so im sexist! Gee i don't like Hux much i guess i hate gingers!

    Here's what's sexist & even racist. Every new white male character is ethier rich-evil, (Canto Bite) a member of the FO or dies! (cannon fodder Rebel fighters)

    Hmmmm i think i found a pattern!
     
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  8. Benjamin Lewis

    Benjamin Lewis Rebel Official

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    What the heck are you talking about? I was literally referencing the two most popular threads on the forum right now. The one about JJ's recent dialogue, and the thread for those who hate the film.

    I was not calling you sexist, or anything of the kind.

    Simply pointing out a quote from you, and how it is false information. False information that forum users have been using to support certain opinions. Please stay in those other threads with misinformation of that kind.

    OP is actually trying to get a legitimate discussion of the film going. Respect that. The forum needs more of it.
     
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  9. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    I‘d add to the list Poe’s arc.

    The outcome was to make of him the new leader of the Resistance
    but to me the execution was so poor that the discussion has became
    if he is dangerous or not.

    We may also add Finn. The outcome was to make of him
    someone who choose to fight not because of Rey only.

    But in this case my personal opinion is not just that the execution
    was poorly done but that the outcome/arc was... pointless.
    That the outcome should have been another one.
    TFA and it’s finale were enough to let us think he was yet committed
    to that fight for his own reasons.

    With Rey... what was the outcome? Almost the same of TFA I suppose...
     
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  10. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    Both.

    Poor ideas badly executed with a nice photography.

    This movie is misdirected not directed, it lacks coherence within the saga and within itself.

    Some examples :

    A soldier has to taste the ground for you to know it's salt and not snow and has nothing to do with Hoth ... Walkers chasing in a deadend for 50 people at best ... This is poorly thought and done.

    Kylo Ren ( the big bad guy, Yes, I am a monster ) can't tell Hux that he was strong enough to kill Snoke and sait it was Rey ... ( No, it's not me ... It's the girl )

    If you wanna be the big bad guy, you can kill your boss because it's a sign of power and it is the way it works.

    This movie is filled with bad ideas like the fuel plot itself.
     
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  11. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    For me both. Luke as the reluctant teacher is fine, but execution was bad. Luke dying was fine, but not without him ever beeing able to redeem himself and have a lasting effect. Here the outcome did fail. This is just an example. Many more examples like Luke tossing the saber away. Luke's reluctance could have been shown in a different and less divisive way than with handling this 'iconic' saber in such a way.
     
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  12. StoneRiver

    StoneRiver Rebel General

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    I'm with @Bandini up there on this one...
     
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  13. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Huh? Did you miss the bit where Luke's sacrifice enabled the Resistance to escape and hope to return to the galaxy?
     
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  14. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    This force projection trick (and it was indeed not more than that), did just help as a distraction to save a bunch of rebels. They have all the work to do in the upcoming months, years or decades, while Luke helped creating the mess and then ran away (as his beloved sister even blames him for according novel). So I don't see with only broom boy anything substantial that Luke reached with this illusion. The novel just perfectly says it, he fades away and the waves continue as nothing has happened (partly free words, since I have my ebook copy at my home pc and not my job pc). ;)
     
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  15. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    Unless he awoke when there is noone left to save. Almost all the resistance is dead except for the last 10 people standing in the Falcon.

    How many people died because Master Luke was ... grumpy and didn't want to move his *** to fix the mess he made himself ?

    He didn't save anything, if Rey didn't suddenly levitate the whole mountain ( after one half lesson ), they should all be dead.
     
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  16. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    In the novel there was even a confirmation that Luke did know that people are suffering and he didn't care. It was exactly written like that and I find this absolutely crass.
     
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  17. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Bloody Ben Kenobi, letting Vader strike him down...and don't get me started on Yoda just chilling out in the swamp whilst the Rebels were close to destruction...
     
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  18. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    Actually Ben Kenobi didn't confront Vader with half of a dead crew on his feet ... There is nothing to compare between these two.

    I don't even see the point.

    BTW, brilliant movies don't need excuses or post show explanations.
     
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  19. Buckeye94

    Buckeye94 Rebel General

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    Both. The execution and the overall outcome of just about everything in TLJ fell flat for me. Whether it was storylines, character development, reveals (not that there were any), it all failed to stir any emotion in me. I found myself saying "That's it?" many times during this movie.
     
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  20. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Im sorry. I misunderstood big time.
     
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