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Fixing the dreadful worldbuilding of the ST

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by zazeron, Apr 28, 2018.

  1. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    The sequel trilogy isn't working, much of it has nothing to really do with the actual story or villian.

    The issue is that the setting actively does something that you see in the shannera book series.


    IT ACTIVELY SABOTAGES THE STORY BY BECOMING REDUNDANT ON A WORLDBUILDING LEVEL!!!

    The setting of the ST is so boring that any attempt to make a decent story out of this poor world building is completely impossible because of how derivative it is. The shannera series gotten a little better, but it's worlds similarity to Tolkien actively destroys any real attempt to create interesting stories. The ST suffers the same problem as well.

    Why is this a bad thing...well as Thor Skywalker points out, as does many others. Is that the story as presented now...does not allow for there to be any interesting suprises or plot development. Nor does it excite me in anyway to read the expanded universe set in that Era because of how boring it is as a setting.


    One last hope(Rey)

    Evil empire(first order)

    Wannabe Palpatine(snoke)

    jedi purge...electric Boogaloo

    Another Rebellion


    The issue is that these world building elements are neither organic(the fall of the new republic), interesting(second empire) or consistent with the OT(pretty much everything).


    Look at all of the story problems of the TFA and TLJ and all of them relate to those 5 questionable world building decisions...world building decisions that are not made out of logical consequences of the OT but decisions meant to IMITATE the OT.


    So with this out of the way I want to present how to fix the setting of the ST

    RISE OF THE FIRST ORDER

    The first order is a bland organization.. it's ideology is completely without merit(or substance) nor does it feel like it is rooted in any societal concerns of today. The use of Canto bight to say that the first order is created by rich elites to create war and to create profit is both too little and too late. And ultimately comes across as hollow.


    George Lucas was right to base the rise of Palpatine on the rise of Hitler and the bush administration and the OT on the American Revolution...and this allowed for his shitty prequels to nonetheless make interesting settings...and when paired to the OT the world building of the first 6 movies becomes utterly unstoppable...spawning books by the thousands and an awesome tv series.


    This should have continued...but by sticking to the NAZI-TROPE they painted themselves in a corner storytelling wise. While black panther created a story about imperialism, black identity, and the struggle for human rights and other interesting themes. Star wars is stuck with simplistic good vs evil bantha poodoo, because the NAZIs are irredeemable and you cannot have any real moral nuance in that setting.


    Why not set in a cold war-trumpian type setting


    The death star was incredibly expensive...according to economist, the death stars destruction would have lead to a galactic depression of epic proportions.

    According to economist...the galactic economy would shrink by 30 PERCENT OVERNIGHT!!! This would create a depression the lights of which the economy would take decades to truly recover. Countless people of all species would be ruined by the economic downturn.

    https://source.wustl.edu/2015/12/the-economics-of-star-wars-how-the-empire-collapses/

    This is a perfect aftermath for the years between TFA and the OT...as well as a perfect explanation for why Leia never trained to become a jedi. Putting the welfare of the galaxy ahead of her jedi training

    Leia was busy keeping the galactic republic afloat as the economy got worse. Putting her political career to fixing the economic situation of the galaxy. Alienating her from her son for long stretches of time. Forcing Han to become a smuggler again.

    The empire fell...but it's massive armies continued fighting. The issue was that they now occupy the outer rim...which was hit hardest by the economic collapse and thus were vulnerable to finding fascism appealing.

    The war ends when the Republic signs the galactic concordance out of desperation to focus on economic recovery. The imperial remnant use this to create a peace Corps to help economically disadvantaged world's hurt by the economy they broke.

    one day, a mysterious dark figure rises through the political ranks thanks to the help of his personal wealth earned from his growing energy company that sells a unique energy source of clean power...Kyber crystals. He quickly is elected supreme leader of the imperial remnant. Using his expertise to help launch the first order to economic superpower status. Turning the first order into the galaxies premier energy superpower and supplier.

    Kyber crystals detection technology proves that this energy source is only available in first order space as they peacefully annex huge outer rim sections.


    Kyber crystals can be a energy source in which near limitless energy can be tapped for a time. The impact of near limitless clean energy cannot be overstated. But it would lead to the price of everything to drop by half. With that in mind the imperial remnant offers its services to the economically destroyed new republic. This drops the price of all goods to half and stimulates a healthy economy for the Republic. But half the outer rim joins the first order out of economic desperation and the feeling that the outer rim was abandoned in favor of elites in the core world's. The core world's was more concerned with their economic recovery than they were with the recovery of the outer rim. And as a result more and more outer rim planets joined the first order simply out of spite and anger. Soon most of the outer rim world's are first order worlds.

    The first order on the other hand would economically benefit. Since Kyber crystals are like tiny nuclear reactors, they are able to have a economic boom of epic proportions with unimaginable wealth overnight. Using this new found wealth to rebuild the empire to its former glory and becoming a rival to the Republic. With the vast wealth allowing outer rim planets like tatoowine to rival coreilla and coruscant. Uninhabitable world's become vast paradises of free real estate. The military rivals the Republic, the outer rim is slowly catching up to the core world's.

    The first order becomes the economic life blood of the galaxy...all thanks to the mysterious snoke...revealed to be Darth plagueis


    Who is snoke?

    Snoke was Palpatine's master, who used essence transfer to inhabit a ever decaying body. As a result plagueis was forced into hiding. But slowly realized that Palpatine is not as good as a political mastermind as he is. He invests money into the rebel alliance, knowing full well that the death stars destruction along with the second one will lead to a economic depression. He leaks the location of galen erso so that the death stars are completed. As well as fund the rebel fleet. Pulling the strings so that Palpatine is killed and Vader dies. He also wants to reclaim the Skywalker clan and take them under his wing. He also denounces the sith ways completely(bypassing the prophecy) instead choosing to create a dark side cult where the dark side is worshipped rather than abused in the sith doctrine...creating the KOR!!!

    He senses the presence of a baby Ben solo and slowly manipulate him from a early age. Planning to corrupt Ben solo so that he can merge with him and have a new and improved body. Setting up his death in TLJ...where he and Luke dies, plagueis seeking immortality while Luke dies after seeking peace with his legacy.

    The Republic is too cowardly to go to war with the first order...which has become the economic lifeblood of the entire galaxy. Forcing Leia to create the resistance. But also introducing a conundrum

    If the first order falls...the galactic economy falls.


    Why this is better than the ST setting we have now.


    The ST has no interesting elements to its setting because it is a imitation of the OT without logical worldbuilding. A star wars film should not have a boring setting. This creates a interesting setting by mirroring the saudi Arabian oil dependacy, the rise of populism, the great depression, and even some cold war as the Republic and first order are rivals. This is to create a logical continuation of the historical copying of star wars...which copies history.


    Plagueis political machinations can be more impressive than Palpatine's...this man funded the Rebellion(80 percent of the rebellions funding came from plagueis), so that he can collapse the galactic economy(he is a banker, he knows how economically disasterous the death star destruction will be), preparing to use the anger of the outer rim and his Kyber crystal energy company to create a even more powerful empire. Now that my friends is some game of thrones level blast. It establishes why snoke is so dangerous, he is someone who is just as politically intelligent as Palpatine. Who created the rebel alliance as a chess piece to a larger game. And creating a situation where his empire is economically untouchable. As well as create a new apprentice. His scheming causes Leia to work to fix the economy at the expense of actually raising ben, han to become a smuggler again, luke's worldview to darken(luke realizing that it would have been a lose-lose situation and that the rebellion was merely a a puppet of a worst evil than palpatine).


    The poverty of jakku can be linked heavily to the collapse of the galactic economy...maybe it was once a booming world before the empire fell.

    Luke can be seen as a war monger...which is why his jedi are politically isolated. Because the Republic is afraid of pissing off their meal ticket. The jedi purge is ultimately seen as a stabilizing force within the Republic. Glad that the jedi are gone.


    This new setting is ultimately more interesting and politically multifaceted than the hollow setting of the ST. The reason is because the setting I present is based on things that happened in history(saudi Arabia, the rise of populism, trump, cold war, depression).

    Making the ST a far more interesting and relevant story. Plagueis in the novel was a rich machivillian genius...lean on it.

    The ST disregard for logical worldbuilding is actively hurting it's story
     
    #1 zazeron, Apr 28, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
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  2. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Sensitive

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    If you actually bother to read the books and comics set between RotJ and TFA chronologically, you would see that the setting is detailed enough to make sense and be interesting. Some details are being avoided until the relevant movies come out, to fill in the gaps later.
     
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  3. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    Disagree...having read the books I am not impressed, a entire galaxy must eat the stupid pill for it to make any sense.

    The first order economy based on the "plot device" regions(unknown regions).


    Plus a movie should stand on its own merits...something that none of the ST films do in any shape or form. And makes them lazy worldbuilding.
     
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  4. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I have to agree with the OP as the Worldbuilding and Big Picture story are a letdown with the ST. I say this as person who enjoys TFA and TLJ as individual SW movies, but not as Saga movies because they really don’t capture anything new that makes the PT/OT better or even original. The only original stuff in the ST sort of makes the 1-6 parts irrelevant.

    I say this cause I was a person who really delved into the PT EU cause there was so much going on in the movies, but I haven’t been interested in any ST EU novels and I haven’t had the desire to read TLJ novel. I’m not even hyped for Episode 9 the way I was for ROTJ and ROTS as the Rey vs Ren part 3 and Resistance vs First Order is essentially the ROTJ story.
     
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  5. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    My story is perfect because the Republic and the first order are in more complex and delicate political situation than in the clone wars. The first order must not fall or the economy goes with it, and the Republic is actively frightened of war for great understandable reasons. The EU of the Era will also present a post apocalyptic economic wasteland in the years between episodes 6 and 7 as the first order and republic play chess Game with world's, intervening with local civil wars, sending in spies, border disputes, and even local wars where both sides are forced to choose between superpowers. The Republic can also deal with first order sympathizers trying to sabotage republic elections. Leia Han and Luke will be actively trying to hold the Republic together. Till Ben solo joins the dark side, leading the events of ST (which has no star killer base for political reasons and maybe the Republic wants to kill Luke as well...maybe poe dameron is a spy for the republic, mission is to kill Luke skywalker and kylo if possible, before the first order declares war on the Republic)
     
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  6. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    If they had used this story, I'd find something redeemable in the ST just as I do with the PT.

    In our world, in any time period, there's always something interesting going on. We don't live in a void (funny, because they live in space... but I digress lol). I have multiple issues with the ST, but I'd find it easier to get over if they had something I can latch on to. I easily have as many issues with the PT, the key difference being that at least there's something going on in the PT. In the ST, it's like the world is in a vacuum. It's not a lack of an interesting setting, it's no setting at all. Okay, fine, they have FO versus Resistance, but that's not a setting. It's an obvious revamp, but a much less imaginative one.

    Really good post, and yeah, that story you lay out would have given something fun to be engaged in. Maybe JJ focuses on that in IX, and then maybe the ST climbs in my view, but I doubt JJ will (it's almost too late at this point). I'm sure there will be lots of books and other media to come out, but some of it needs to be in the movie(s).
     
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  7. GingerByte

    GingerByte Jedi General

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    Ah, the classic "everything will be explained if you read the books" excuse. The vast majority of Star Wars fans don't read the books, watch the TV shows, play the games etc. They just watch the films, and if you cannot explain the state of A to Z well in a film, then anything set within said confines become problematic. The most infuriating part of this whole debacle is Abrams and Kasdan actually wrote and filmed some of these scenes, but they were cut from the final product.

    All information necessary should be provided in the film, the EU material such as books should be supplementary and provide additional unrequired material that further fleshes out the world. We're being sold an incomplete story, no two ways around it.

    And to top it all off, the vast majority of the new EU at the moment focuses on the galaxy post-Civil War, not pre-Resistance/ FO.
     
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  8. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Sensitive

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    The movies provide enough information to people who care about only watching them. OT didn't provide that many details either, it just seems that way since you've known them for a while.
     
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  9. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    i get your point here, i think many peoples issue with the don't worry its all explained in the books argument is that is fine for small details, but for huge thing like at the end of Return of the Jedi we see the empire and the emperor defeated and then the next episode starts and an emperor knock and an empire knock of are back and have helped turn Leia and Hans son, then that feels like a to big a detail to leave out of the films.
    Not explaining it in the films also just ads to the feeling that Lucas film doesn't really know what its doing and just set all these things up to remind people of the original trilogy and even now don't really have a good enough explanation for them that they would feel comfortable putting on screen.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 28, 2018, Original Post Date: Apr 28, 2018 ---
    true but with the OT we didn't have 40 years worth of stories that films had to link into. So if their is and Emperor with and Evil empire then that feels fitting, if then you see them defeated, and then in the next episode their is basically and Empire and and evil Emperor again then you go huh? what happened there? and if their is no explanation coming then it all feels a bit cheap.
     
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  10. GingerByte

    GingerByte Jedi General

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    The OT was the first installment in the universe, it didn't need to explain anything other than set up the current state of its world. The ST is expected to build upon what has come before, just as the PT built upon the OT by providing a roadmap to and setup for it. We were also told plenty over the trilogy: we were told how the Emperor gained power (through politics) and remained absolute by dissolving the senate, we found out much about the Imperial hierarchy, it went into some detail about Vader and his relationship with his masters, and much more.

    The world was built, we needed nothing more.

    The ST has explained almost nothing. It never mentioned the end of the Galactic Civil War, it never explained how the Resistance was at odds with the Republic, it hasn't mentioned Operation Cinder, or anything important. Apparently finding an old Rebel base on a new planet called Crait is more useful information to convey to an audience. Imagine if the base the Resistance travelled to was linked to any of these past events; that would provided time for a line or two of info, which can be expanded upon in EU material.

    There's no way to spin it, the ST's world was scrapped in order to push spectacle and character.
     
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  11. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    You’re kind of making my point that the ST is a retread of the OT and that is what’s so disappointing about it.

    Yes, the OT didn’t have a huge macro story that really gave all the details of the politics and world building. But it worked because the story really focused on Luke, Leia and Han vs Vader as the metaphor of the Rebellion vs the Empire.

    The PT took that story and then gave us this big picture of the universe (The Senate, The Jedi Council, The Rise of the Empire/Palpatine) so it actually made the OT better in that context.

    Now with the ST, they needed to continue to show how the Republic evolved or devolved and we have gotten pretty much none of that. That would have made the PT/OT better again to show where the Republic is after 30 years, instead they have gone back to only focusing on the micro story like the OT.

    That’s why I say TFA and TLJ are good/entertaining SW movies, but not really good Saga movies because there isn’t much there when you watch them in that context.
     
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  12. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    The claim that the OT has barely any details is a flawed one at best...a false one at worst

    The OT had a organic political backdrop of a republic becoming a empire. And it's evil emperor trying to destroy the Senate(the last line of defense for the people) and replace them with his bootlicking moffs and regional governors. This move fails and many of its senators become the leaders of the rebellion (Mothma and leia). This information is 100 PERCENT within new hope itself(without a single EU source). This is very similar to trump, Hitler, other dictators. Whom used their family members or friends and appointed them in important positions to increase their power.

    The issue with the ST is that it is contrived for one purpose and one purpose alone...to bring the galaxy back to the status quo of the OT.

    Their stubbornness with not making snoke plagueis backfired in the most cathartic way possible. And I took joy that they paid for their arrogance towards us fans

    every storytelling problem of the ST can be linked to questionable worldbuilding decisions in this trilogy that did not need to happen.
     
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  13. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    There's already a good thread for this discussion that's a little less hyperbolic.

    Keep in mind these trilogies are designed to be watched independently. So this idea that "everything has to be explained" is an unrealistic expectation that some fans bring to the table.
     
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  14. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    you wont need to find anything redeemable....this setting, unlike the final product, would have done the following

    added political complexity to the actual stories...This story adds layers of conflict to several characters, Leia must confront the fact that she and the rebellion fell into plagueis trap, the Republic spy(poe, finn or rose) is conflicted about killing Luke. And countless other layers
     
  15. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    That is essentially what they are thought of as by Disney; one style of eventuality of neo-fascistic, or pseudo-fascist-like, political tendencies from hard-right retaliations to a cold war/post-cold-war environment, and who are reliant on idolized views of a time perceived to be defined as better because of hard-line positions and nationalist pride; subsequently this outlier group is under-valued by more tolerant normative powers currently in the majority control who are subsequently thrown off-balance when the hard-line populous movement takes control and upsets decades of philosophically egalitarian growth in policy decisions globally.

    That is both the past decade's Western Civilization populist condition, which still continues, and doesn't just equate to "Trump", but a whole host of Western nations going through the very same thing in their own ways (Switzerland, Sweden, Britain, Germany, France, Italy, Greece famously, but it's pretty much everywhere), as well as the conditions which lead to the First Order in the SW universe.
    Charismatic leaderships, hard-line positions, nationalist policy positions, tiered citizenship values (one class of citizen, or people, is/are more inherently of value than another), isolationist tendencies, verbosely demanded patriotism, and surprising support and accomplishments.

    That is pretty much the nuts and bolts of the First Order.
    They came about during a Cold War, off in a hardly monitored corner of the galaxy, the New Republic powers did not take them seriously, the First Order was therefore allowed to grow to powerful extents by simply repeatedly violating regulations and terms of the contract that ended the galactic civil war, which consequently created a fanatic out of Leia, who subsequently ran her own military cell to attempt to fight the First Order since the New Republic was not taking them seriously, and she did so fruitlessly as her endeavors were not capable of stopping the First Order from taking over the seat of power from the New Republic, which drove all sorts of problems with her home life which was already in turmoil due to a troubled child who ended up joining the very group his Mother was fighting against, which did drive Han away and cause him to go back to what he knew.
    Now the First Order is swinging its weight around and we're seeing, in the SW universe, if recovery is possible from a populist hard-line right take-over.

    If it seems like the OT, that's because it's meant to be.
    If the current real world populist movements across Western socieity strike people as eerily similar to Hitler and the pre-Chancellor Hitler Nazi party, that's because in many ways they are, and in many ways the socio-economic conditions which existed then exist in a relative form again today.

    If the thought is that the First Order doesn't really reflect current socio-economic dilemma, I suggest reading more world news.
    Leia was basically the SW galaxy's Merkel.


    A Merkel from whom no one at the council, in majority, took seriously her warnings.
    A Merkel who, unlike our real Merkel, radicalized and became an outlier military force leader (once again) due to an impatience and frustration with the political process (here the real Merkel differs, as Merkel would likely look down on Leia's approach to solving problems, but this is a movie and people doing everything politically and no one shooting things gets boring for epics and adventures).

    So if the idea is that the First Order should more closely resemble some current world zeitgeist, I would say that it definitely does. It represents a stark warning of what can occur out of our current environment, and to not be fooled into thinking that because it was defeated once before, that it will never rise again and take over.

    If anyone thinks that the current populist zeitgeist can't develop into a Hitler's Nazi similarity part 2, they are severely mistaken. Will that happen? I'd like to think not, but if everyone keeps thinking that there's no possibility and that it's silly to make stories centered around reminding us of a rebirth of that reality, and if everyone keeps taking the populist movements as jokes, then I think it is increasingly likely.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  16. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    The issue is that the "character" has completely suffered. Without morally complex worldbuilding, characters cannot make hard choices(because they are no choices), unable to make hard choices lead to terrible characters. A first order that is holding the economy afloat and a republic that wants to kill Luke skywalker to save their meal ticket, and a Leia that is wrecked with guilt over saving the economy, and a republic and a first order that are growing less and less distinct as both sides do similar things will make countless character moments and themes.

    But you cannot have that with this setting because the first order is toxic and the Republic is gone, making it a idealized idea that is never seen and never critiqued.

    The Republic is a democray...which in real life is transforming into a oligarchy. The Republic should have had the same thing happening during this trilogy. Plagueis should have been dining with republic senators looking for campaign money. Canto bight should have had both senators and arms dealers in a casino owned by plagueis with rose tico as a spy for the first order.

    And when Ben solo ascends to the first order throne, the Republic should get a wake up call or maybe even lead to a revolution to topple both sides. Or maybe plagueis death causes kylo to be out of his depth. Plagueis being a political mastermind also means his delicate power structure will extend to the Republic. So many political nuances and countless stories
     
    #16 zazeron, Apr 28, 2018
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  17. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    This is a bit confusing to me, honestly.

    It seems to suppose that SW is directly relevant to the socioeconomic standings of the time in which it was released, and that the ST has failed to do so.
    Aside from what I wrote earlier about there actually being a relevance between the ST and current socioeconomic conditions, I think it's worth noting that the OT was not relevant to its own time's socioeconomic conditions, nor was it nuanced in moral dilemmas related to its socioeconomic conditions within its story.

    In the 1970's, the relevant socioeconomic conditions of the United States were a crumbling national economy, resource scarcity, radical physical infrastructural collapse, rapid rate increase in violent crimes and murder rates, evaporating working middle class, rising unemployment rates, a social rights movement which had erupted into everything just short of an all out civil war, drug culture death rates skyrocketing, the introduction and rapid rise of terrorism through a seemingly non-stop string of hostage taking and plane hijacking - to include the LIVE broadcast of the Munich incident, a fresh scarring from a string of political figures and leaders being assassinated, a deep cultural shock from the disillusionment caused from an ever growing list of government corruption, and a very fresh traumatic residue of the Vietnam War.

    Now, Star Wars IV comes along. It doesn't have a Vietnam style war environment, and Lucas could have done that as his good friend was neck deep in Apocalypse Now around the same time range. Lucas himself was among those who strongly encouraged Coppola to make a strong Vietnam film, so if he had wanted to make it directly relevant to the war conditions of his time, he certainly could have.
    However, he drew heavily in design from WWII Nazi Germany, and modeled only really the Emperor off of a figure from his current time - Richard Nixon. However, from the OT films, you hardly would grasp that idea. It's not really until the PT that it starts to come about a bit more as something to notice, and what a lot of people thought was the model was Bush. That's simply because what Lucas was constantly thinking about was showing how democracies don't get taken away - they are given away.
    It happened before Lucas' time back in the late 1930's when Germany became swept up with Hitler, Lucas witnessed that happening in form during the Nixon years, a new generation saw that sort of happening again with Bush, and another may look at Trump as another incarnation yet again.

    It's not isolated to one time in history. It repeatedly occurs.

    But to continue on, look at the OT and then look at the 70's and early 80's.
    There is no direct correlation taking place between Star Wars and its current times. It has relative motifs that cross time and culture to some extent, but it is not directly linked to the zeitgeist of its direct release time historically.
    If Star Wars was, then the Star Wars we would have gotten in 1977 would have looked a LOT more like Rogue One than A New Hope.

    Star Trek, on the other hand was, and for the most part still is.
    It was actually written into the original writer's guide, and the Next Generation's writer's guide that the topics need to be relevant to current social issues.

    No such directive exists within Star Wars, and the OT really didn't remind everyone of what was going on outside of the theater.
    If anything, it reminded them of simpler times where moral right and wrong was easy to determine. These are the bad guys. These are the good guys. Root for the good guys. Boo the bad guys.

    The only concept of economic struggles shown in OT, which would have been VERY relevant for the time, is the concept of haggling at sale, and Han wanting lots of money. That's not exactly tying a link between the current times and the story. Those are things which exist in many stories; especially epics and adventures.

    Almost no one in the OT is forced to make radical moral choices. Luke's moral choice is personal about his Father; not about social obligations bound up in a murky socioeconomic climate that fuels his character growth through those tough moral choices.
    Luke's moral choice is entirely revolved around fighting his Father or trying to save his Father; which ends up being both at once and neither, in the end, because Luke finds a loophole in self-sacrifice which empowers his Father.

    I don't think it's bad to ambition for directly relevant socioeconomic science fiction, but Star Wars is just not that intellectual property.

    Star Wars likes to borrow wafts of elements from our shared history and some bits of sampled items from our current times to sprinkle over everything, but at its heart, it is first and foremost a moral mythology about the personal struggles of ontological and existential issues regarding the value of the self, others, and our place in the universe.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  18. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    This post is brilliant.

    Cheers.
     
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  19. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    Disagree with every word...asoiaf and dark knight both were relevant to modern times and both of them have real staying power while TFA has came and went. No One cares for TFA or quote it, none of the characters are remembered in pop culture. Game of thrones and dark knight will be remembered, while the Sequel trilogy is forgotten.

    also the ST hasn't addressed anything you pointed out in bold in any well written way
     
  20. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    These examples are not Star Wars.
    I made a rather important caveat at the end of my post, which is currently occurring in your response.
    I did not state that socioeconomic response writing isn't worth anything.
    I highlighted that the OT really wasn't such a form of fiction, and never outlined itself to be such.

    Also, and I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but I think it's a bit hyperbolic to state that you disagree with every word of the post since a portion of that post is historical fact about what the 1970's was, and also rather factual summary of how the OT did not reflect those conditions of the 1970's in its story.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #20 Jayson, Apr 29, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
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