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Fixing the dreadful worldbuilding of the ST

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by zazeron, Apr 28, 2018.

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  1. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    to expand on my previous point....it is also a main reason why i feel that rebels is less divisive to the fanbase than the ST even though rebels introduced time travel...the setting of the original trilogy is just better built for there to be great stories
     
    #21 zazeron, Apr 29, 2018
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  2. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Alright, I'm sorry I stepped in.

    I thought this was a discussion regarding the categorical analysis of Star Wars' traditional setting form and style compared against the new films with the initial position being that the latter had failed to adhere and form to the former, but I'm realizing that instead it's more of a draft of ideas in general that individuals would find more satisfying.

    I'll step out; sorry for the intrusion.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #22 Jayson, Apr 29, 2018
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  3. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    This is beyond hyperbole. No one quotes TFA? Where are you coming up with these claims? During Halloween are kids more likely to be dressed up as Rey or Kylo Ren or some character in Game of Thrones or The Dark Knight?

    I'd argue that no films being produced today will have the staying power of the OT. There's simply too much content being produced. Who has time to watch a Marvel film more than one time? I certainly don't. They're like TV episodes. Avatar was the biggest box office film of all time and I don't remember much about it. It's certainly not a part of US pop culture. When Star Wars/Raiders of the Lost Ark/E.T. came out in the 80s those films were in the theater for almost a year. Now a films run just a few weeks.
     
    #23 DailyPlunge, Apr 29, 2018
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  4. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    How is trump a dictator?
     
    #24 Darth Basin The Greatest, Apr 29, 2018
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  5. KalKenobi83

    KalKenobi83 Rebelscum

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    who cares i enjoy the characters
     
    #25 KalKenobi83, Apr 30, 2018
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  6. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    The fact that you had to point out the similarities to todays crisis and try to fit the unrealistic first order to it shows how foundationally broken this trilogy is.

    It is inspired by star wars...not history as was the previous 2 trilogies.

    That is why this trilogy is hollow.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2018, Original Post Date: Apr 30, 2018 ---
    The characters are suffering from a horrible setting which is actively sabotaging a already fragile story that wasn't even a good idea to begin with (a sequel to return of the jedi)
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2018 ---

    Wannabe dictator...praising XI of China and calling kim honorable are things a wannabe dictator would do
     
    #26 zazeron, Apr 30, 2018
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  7. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    [​IMG]

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #27 Jayson, Apr 30, 2018
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  8. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    Game of Thrones is not exactly for children and I don't recall seeing any GoT costumes at the local Wal Mart. But I sure saw more Batman costumes than Rey or Kylo Ren this past Halloween.
    There's always time to watch a good movie more than once.
     
    #28 Wolfpack, May 3, 2018
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  9. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Costumes are chosen by world building quality.
    This is why the most common costumes are generic zombies, vampires, and witches.

    The highest in sales is the best and only choice.
    This is why the only comic book hero is Superman with 600 million copies, and Batman failed and needs to be left in the trash where he belongs with his crappy 460 million copies sold. Such a loser.

    [​IMG]

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #29 Jayson, May 3, 2018
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  10. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    I figured this out the minute this turned into a "GUYS SNOKE HAS TO BE DARTH PLAGUEIS OR THIS STORY DOESN'T WORK" thread. The Sequel Trilogy was never about Snoke. It's about Ben and Rey and a few other characters.
    Dude, the Star Wars Original Trilogy drew upon the memory of the then-recent Vietnam War and Richard Nixon's blatant corruption as influences for its story. The Prequel Trilogy played off of war profiteering in the Middle East and had jabs at Bush Jr.'s Administration. And the conflicts in those trilogies played off of World War II, as does the conflict in the Sequel Trilogy. Those are just a few examples off the top of my head. If you don't think Star Wars is influenced by real-world history at all, then you clearly haven't been paying attention.
     
    #30 Pomojema, May 3, 2018
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  11. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    better than the contrived sequel trilogy...and people has voted with their wallets...age of ultron kicked last jedi's ass in the box office, while black panther shot it through the spine. and infinity war crushed TFA. None of the ST characters have any pop culture impact and are generally seen as failures
     
    #31 zazeron, May 3, 2018
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  12. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Honestly, if you thought these characters could even come close to Han, Leia and Luke, you are sadly mistaken. Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme never even touched the height of those three, and they're George's creation. How many films does the MCU have again? 19 vs 3 (since the purchase) Also, 10 million is hardly beating TFA. Plus, they're both owned by the same company so who cares who's beating who?
     
    #32 Andrew Waples, May 3, 2018
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  13. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Voted?
    Films aren't mutually exclusive items, and film companies don't measure their assets by comparing sizes at the toilet.

    Star Wars is fine financially.
    You don't like the films.

    [​IMG]

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #33 Jayson, May 3, 2018
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
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  14. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I still don't get the whole "One franchise is doing better than Star Wars, we're doomed" argument.

    Be happy that Marvel is doing well. Marvel is fun, too. Enjoy multiple things. The fact that Marvel and Star Wars are two kings at the box office shows what a great time it is to be a geek these days. Personally, I embrace it.
     
    #34 cawatrooper, May 3, 2018
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  15. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I remember this debate happened during the PT days after Spiderman beat out AOTC in 2002 Box Office, and then the Lord of the Rings vs Star Wars Prequels was a main topic for much of the early 00's.

    It's an odd thing that certain fans like to pound their chest that their 'team' is better then the other team, as I do this with my sports teams. :D I will say that I honestly don't watch any Blockbuster movies anymore, other then SW. I think the advent of CGI in the 90's essentially killed the Blockbuster movie because they don't focus on characters and story anymore as it's all about wowing people, or trying to shock fans with someone dying like Game of Thrones.

    The reason Jaws, Star Wars, Alien, The Terminator, Raiders of the Lost Ark still hold up today is because the directors were limited by technology so they HAD to focus on writing a good story and making characters that are relatable and memorable. The fact that Black Panther and The Avengers are already beating The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi tells me that Blockbusters are a dime a dozen and the same fans move onto the next one.

    I don't begrudge anyone who likes today's blockbuster because they are entertaining movies, but they aren't memorable and won't hold up 25-30 years from now except to the real hardcore fans. Star Wars, Jaws, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Back to the Future, etc, were made for ALL audiences but the blockbuster now is limited to a specific audience that will see it multiple times.
     
    #35 Jedi77-83, May 3, 2018
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  16. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    Yes, they do.
    The reason why Marvel is now beating Star Wars - despite Star Wars having a HUGE head start - is simply because Marvel is making superior quality movies.
     
    #36 Wolfpack, May 4, 2018
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  17. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Nu-uh times infinity.
    [​IMG]


    On a more actual conversation level than just "yuhuh" level silliness...
    Yeah, no. They care about financial obligations within their earnings requirements.
    If you read the earnings report, Disney reported TLJ was good to go and even assigned Johnson three more films during the earnings report meeting...which, you know, companies absolutely do when they think their film suffered horribly.

    Oh, sorry. I said that backwards, yeah, they don't do that.

    Is it tinfoil hat conspiracy time where next we hear how Disney would never admit a problem in their financial reports? Because I pulled a decade's worth and counted around a thousand instances where they literally did report shortfalls if an asset didn't meet their requirements.

    [​IMG]

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #37 Jayson, May 4, 2018
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  18. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    Do they really when they own both of the franchises in question and are continuing to profit at an unprecedented rate for the seventh year in a row? At worst, I see the people at Disney doing this:

    [​IMG]

    And that's before getting all those goodies from Fox, a company that's been largely successful.

    Nobody at Disney was expecting Black Panther to be as big a hit as it was. They knew they had a success fairly early on (because Ryan Coogler is awesome), but the fact that it outdid The Avengers in the United States was a big surprise. And it only barely outgrossed The Last Jedi, in part because China doesn't care about Star Wars (which is something that's clearly been established at this point yet people are somehow still surprised by this).

    Avengers: Age of Ultron was apparently nearly or more than twice as expensive ($380M-$440M) as The Last Jedi according to financial reports that I just read; the profit margins on it were substantially smaller than what TLJ made. Avengers: Infinity War is not expected to do better than The Force Awakens on a global scale, barring an overperformance in China. It's already fallen behind in terms of day-to-day grosses on a domestic front, and it won't catch up again, nor is the movie bound to have the same legs as TFA due to competition later in May and in June and July. Since it's a more expensive movie ($320M-$350M is what I've heard), it's profit levels won't be as high as TFA.
     
    #38 Pomojema, May 4, 2018
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  19. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    I may have misunderstood the metaphor so I will leave that alone. However, if you are claiming Star Wars is profiting at an unprecedented rate, that is simply not the case. Ticket sales are down from the last main episode installment, merchandising sales are way down, and most are predicting the upcoming Star Wars Story installment will be down versus the last one.

    Fact is Star Wars is on a downward trend while Marvel is on an upward trend. Maybe that will turn around, but that is where we stand right now.
     
    #39 Wolfpack, May 4, 2018
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  20. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Ticket sales are down from the film Disney reported on its quarterly earnings as directly aiding in delivering the highest quarter earnings in all of Disney history?
    Noooo. You don't say.

    [​IMG]

    It's OK to not like a financially successful film series.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #40 Jayson, May 4, 2018
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