For People Complaining about Rey's fast arc;

I actually signed up specifically to write this post. Not that it going to be ground breaking or an original point of view. But after seeing the movie for the third time, I still find it amazing how some people don't realize that she is not one by one discovering force powers, but is remembering her force powers - of which is accelerated by her vision and her purposeful engagement. I really don't think it could have been any more clear. At first, I simply thought it was bad writing as well, but that made so little sense to me. So going back, and re-watching the fight between Rey and Kylo, and focusing on the part where he says you need a teacher something something force, the cliche Hollywood "oh yeah, I remember the force" look on her face was plain as day. So a little less obvious here, but I do actually think she he Kylo are cousins. And if he dropped her off on Jakku after the Jedi slaughter, because he couldn't bring himself to end a family (maybe making his killing Han Solo even that much more of an achievement for him) members life, only for it to bite him in the ass , then not only would the writing make sense, but in my opinion, that would be some bad ass writing. But we shall see.......

 

welcome to the Cantina!

given what we know of the timeline, 15 year-old Ben Solo is not likely to have dropped Rey off on Jakku unless he kidnapped her for some bizarre reasoning prior to becoming Kylo Ren. while not impossible, it would mean he did this at least eight years before following through on his actual betrayal of Luke. maybe Luke was off looking for this lost daughter when Ren came back to destroy his school, but that seems like a strange really long-term plan to me.

the more likely reason Rey "remembers" the Force when Ren reminds her on the cliff is because Maz explained it to her on Takodana and she's only just become aware that she can harness it when she attacks Ren in their mind-probe battle.

Rey also likely didn't win the fight because she recalled superior training ~ her attack was just as inelegant at the end as it had been at the beginning.
she won because she was fighting a wounded and thoroughly distracted foe who wasn't trying to kill her in the first place.
she beat him with sheer ferocity. she beat him by using the Dark against him when he wasn't using it to his own advantage.

 

rey's quickness is what it is, i'm not seeing how that can be "bad" or "good"; it is what it is, rey is who she is. if we're looking at rey in comparison to luke, then rey is doing things at an accelerated pace for sure. but that's her pace. if her pace is faster than his then the obvious conclusion is that she's different/the force is different, you know- something's different is all it says. that's neither good or bad, it just is what it is. rey is either stronger in the force than luke was, or the force is coming through her stronger now than it did with him. but that can't be bad, can it?

but i don't necessarily agree with the reasoning in the first post, the posts have a lot of dependance on possible, but not ceratin, future information. that's one thing that makes it difficult to guage is that there's too much missing informatrion right now. if rey has had previous training, that would explain the accelarated pace. if rey was created like anakin by plagueis/snoke/luke from the force, that would explain it. could be a lot of things.

but even if there's nothing to "explain" it, then it just would mean that rey is demonstrating that she's potentially the most powerful, or learns the quickest. she definitely showing she picks it up faster. that's just, that's rey. she is who she is, learns at her pace, does what she does. i don't see how it can be good or bad.

 

I reckon it might look a little bit fast how she gets developed in the Force, but wasn't that what we learned from the OT?

Luke didn't have years of training as a Jedi to be able to make a one-in-a-million shot to destroy the Death Star. Then after three years (which we still don't know that much) he dueled Vader, but still was not there yet in the full Jedi mode.

The problem is that as we have seen in the PT, we were told a Jedi had to go through a long training to master the abilities and to become a Jedi knight. We were told training started at early years. And now we see a young girl - the same age we met Luke and Leia in ANH, and the same age Anakin was when he was just a padawan, but faced Count Dooku - that shows a fast development in the Ways of The Force so we think it is kind of preposterous.

But what about Kanan, Ezra and Ahsoka? They were in some way on their own but managed to learn. Of course Kanan and Ahsoka were actually trained since they were younglings, and even had their fair share of real fighting in the Clone Wars, but their training stopped by reasons already known.

My point is that the Force behaves in mysterious ways as we have learned from Star Wars. I like to use this analogy from football: you might have kids that are playing all their lives since they are little, but not all of them have the natural skills and abilities like a Cristiano Ronaldo or a Messi. (@Messi would approve this post )

 

Hahahaha...Agree. But Ronaldo is an ordinary padawan if you compares him to Master Messi.

 

Exactly!! Thank you!! Ren was never trying to hurt or destroy Rey. Watch the fight from the beginning. All of his saber attacks are directed at her saber only. In most cases it looks like he's simply trying to deflect her attacks or dis-arm her most of the time by just trying to knock the saber from her hands. Now there are a couple times were he takes a couple swipes that looked a bit dangerous, like the one were she climbs up the rock face then jumps over to the other side, he take a swing close to her feet. But again.. it was a fairly gentle swipe compared to how he fought Finn. With Finn, every swing Ren took had intention to hurt or kill. He didn't care about Finn.

At the end of the saber fight between Rey and Ren, you are again correct, she says, "the force" and closes her eyes because that's what Maz told her to do. "Close your eyes. Feel it.... it will guide you." She takes it to Ren after that because she is; One, allowing the force to guide her. Two, she is very angry and is tapping into the dark side, as is apparent by the look on her face and her body language. And three, Ren is seriously wounded, maybe even dying from that bowcaster blast to the gut, plus he is totally caught off guard, and is in total defense mode as her attacks are so vicious and quick.

Lets face it. If Ren was healthy, allowed himself to tap into the darkside completely, and had no desire to keep Rey alive(remember Snoke wanted her brought to him), he would destroy Rey in a heartbeat. His demonstration of force powers throughout the movie proves this. He may need his training to be completed, but he is a very powerful force user. Rey got lucky, as the circumstances were in her favor.

 

yep. and if you watch the fight closely enough, you can see the exact moment he just sorta gives it all up.
he not only gives up, but once she puts him down, he just stays down, staring at her like she's the second coming about to reap his soul.
and you know this was done deliberately as a directorial choice because in the book, he actually never stops fighting.

 

Yep, he totally gives up. Now whether he just gives up because he knows he won't be able to take her alive, or that he realizes he's to injured to win at that point, or that he actually knows who she is and has come to accept that he's in over his head at the moment, is up for debate. Perhaps it's all of the above.

 

i'm thinking it's all of the above ~ hahaha

 

Exactly. One of my guesses is Rey's parents knew who Luke was and knew their child had a "gift" and arranged for Luke to train her after dropping her off on Jakku. Luke was to take her to the Temple but this is when the Temple was destroyed and he never made it to Jakku.

So by this plan being altered Rey was stranded on Jakku and Luke gave up and went into hiding. This could be why Rey thinks Luke is a myth.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 20, 2016 ---

 

For people who complain about Rey's arc, atleast see the story out? I took the same approach with the PT as I went with story despite having some serious questions regarding TPM & AOTC. After I saw ROTS is when I was ultimately let down by how Anakin turned to the darkside. Go with the story now and if those answers don't satisfy you by Episode 9 then you have every right to complain.

 

Every single Star Wars movie can be picked apart, piece by piece, if you really wanted to. You have a choice: accept it and believe the fantasy or nit-pick every last detail until there's nothing left. I choose to believe...

 

Rey mentally overpowering Kylo Ren during their interrogation was ridiculous. If the Force is about confidence and peace of mind, Rey shouldn't have been able to stand against him. Rey's entire experience with Kylo was a guy dressed all in black who deflected her blaster shots, froze her in place with a wave with his hand, menaced her with his lightsaber, and then knocked her out with another gesture. When she wakes up she's strapped to a torture table with Kylo Ren right next to her. Rey should be freaked out whereas Kylo should be calm and confident, the conditions optimal for using the Force. He should've been able to read her mind no problem without her counterattacking. And it would have been enough for her to just be able to block him from her mind, but the writers had to go one step further by her forcing her way into his mind. And then in the final fight Rey defeats him to the point where she could've killed him, instead of the battle ending where she's just able to drive him back and the ground separates a stalemate.

These two events combine so that Kylo is not a threatening villain going forward. Even IF Rey is a former Jedi student and she forgot all her training, she's still 10 years out of practice while Kylo Ren has been using the Force in some capacity everyday. And Rey will be getting even more powerful as the story goes forward, why should I fear for hear given how she overcomes every challenge she encounters ultimately without help? At the end of TFA, she's already where Luke was at the end of ESB but in this case she's both Luke AND Han.

And I have to laugh at the posters bringing up Luke's battle with Vader at the end of ESB like it's some evidence against Rey being overpowered relative to other Jedi. Yes, Luke does duel Vader at the end of the movie, and he gets the blast beaten out of him via Vader Force-throwing various objects at him AND HE LOSES A Maclunkey HAND. The entire Vader vs. Luke duel illustrates just how outclassed Luke truly is compared to someone who actually knows what they're doing when using the Force.

 

after defeating him as soundly as she did here, it's possible Rey is going to be way overconfident in the next film.

i think the assumption that Kylo Ren "should have been" this badass villain is a place where a lot people get hung up.
he is a badass villain. but he's also a bad villain. by design.

he's open to Rey's counter attack with the mind probe because he doesn't realize she's FS and he's arrogantly dismissed her as a mere 'scavenger.
he's also so thoroughly distracted by her that he's not really paying attention to what he's doing.
he doesn't realize he needs to put up barriers until she does poke into his head.
which is likely more his fault for opening his mind to her than her conscious push to get in.

as for the final duel, it's been said endlessly: Kylo Ren wasn't trying to kill her, he wasn't calm or centered, he was, in fact, falling apart physically and psychologically, and when Rey was prompted to recall channeling the Force, she took all her terror and hooked her fingers into the Dark side to beat him.

 

This is the best theory about Rey's parents I've read so far and does make some level of sense.

 

Yeah! Even Anakin said Jedi mind tricks only work on the weak minded right??

 

I understand JJ Abrams' intention when he made Kylo, and I like the idea of an evolving villain that becomes more dangerous as the series progresses, my point is that I think it was a mistake making him lose SO badly in every confrontation he had with the protagonist. Aside from the first encounter with Rey on Takodana, Rey not only stalemates him, but outright beats him in every confrontation they had.

If an audience should associate one thing with a villain that isn't supposed to be humorous, it's fear and dread. And though there are reasons in-universe for why Kylo had such a poor showing with Rey on Starkiller Base, it still has the same purpose as if they beat him when he was fresh. And that's lessening the threat of one of the two main villains. Of course, I say this with only TFA to go on and Episode 8 may very well end with Rey getting her ass handed to her by Kylo.

I understand HOW Rey beat Kylo, but my point is that imo the writers made a mistake having their Jedi protagonist have such a big win so easily. It diminishes Kylo's threat. Would Luke's confrantation of Vader on Cloud City have the same atmosphere and dread if Luke had bested Vader in a duel in the first movie? Tell me, are you more or less intimidated by Kylo Ren's presence in Episode 8 after his shitastic showing in TFA? Are you more or less concerned about Rey's safety in another duel with him?

 

I agree that Ren did not want to kill Rey. I didn't at first, but after watching it a few times...he is just swatting at her enough to keep her from hurting him. He seems curious, to see what she's got. It isn't until he shows her mercy on the cliff & offers to teach her that he looses.

 

For anyone who complains about Rey vs Ren and how Rey shouldn't have been this powerful in TFA, etc. Just look at one on one Sporting competition and you will your answer.

There are no rules!

Why did Buster Douglas beat Mike Tyson who was supposedly invincible? How does Tiger break the Masters scoring record at only 21 years old? How does an 18 year old Lebron go right from high school and excels in the NBA?

Jedi and force powers are just like athletes, as they all excel at different times and one maybe more powerful then another at a younger age.

Just go with the story and stop comparing it to previous movies cause you're overanalyzing it. Just because Michael Jordan excelled in the NBA at a certain timespan, doesn't mean that Kobe and Lebron have to excel exactly the same to be considered great. That's exactly what many fans are doing comparing Anakin and Kylo Ren or Luke and Rey.

 

oh i see what you're saying; thank you for clarifying! i don't know if i agree that it was a mistake, but i totally get where you're coming from.

and the reason i don't think it's a mistake is because of what you said about what's potentially coming in viii: Rey is going to get clobbered because she had it so easy in TFA. i firmly believe that. she's going to underestimate him (and so is the audience based on a lot of people's reactions--calling him a whiny pissbaby, etc.).

and though i see what you mean about Luke and Vader, i actually think Ren's shitastic performance in TFA actually does make him scarier in terms of what he's going to look like on the rebound. we know he's unpredictable, unstable, vengeful, capable of serious viciousness. is he going to hold back next time he sees Rey? is he going to come out of the gate more monstrous than ever? he certainly has the capacity to ~ and given his power (which we know is considerable), i am absolutely concerned about what he'll want do to Rey in the next movie. and what he'll want to do to Luke as well.

getting knocked on his ass didn't diminish him at all for me. but i guess i can see how others would take it that way.