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For people who disliked the Prequels, consider this:

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by YubNubBub, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

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    Hello. Thanks for taking the time to read this. (ewok)

    I would just like you to consider a few things about the Prequels.

    • First, the character of Anakin Skywalker. People were in general upset with the characterization of Anakin Skywalker. I wasn't. Let me explain why:

    What if you had a pair of scales to measure good and evil? Imagine for a moment we used that pair of scales on the young Anakin Skywalker.

    He would measure excessively good. He also did, in the prequels. Even as a boy he was portrayed as innocent, extremely loving towards his mother, good willed towards others (remember when he offered Qui Gon a place to stay out of the storm). He was an exceptional young man.

    Now what if you reversed the scales on someone abnormally loving? We would see a character who is excessively evil. A doctor Jekel and Mr. HYDE. That is what makes Anakin's character so great.

    Many people who didn't like the young Anakin and didn't like his portrayal IMO, is because they couldn't relate. They couldn't fathom the greatest Sith Lord in the galaxy was in fact a great soul. A boy with dreams, aspirations, unnatural love for others. They expected a character who was standoffish, they expected a character they could relate to.

    But that is what makes Anakin such a great character. The seemingly uncorruptable was corrupted, then was redeemed.

    All the talk that he was too whiney or whatnot, you know, if you were in his position exactly how would you have reacted? His PASSION drove his emotions and his reactions. (dad)

    So there really should be no issue with the characterization of Anakin Skywalker. It was spot on, and George Lucas knew it. Anyone who didn't understand that could never relate or understand the character of Anakin Skywalker.

    • Onto Jar Jar Binks. Why oh why did everyone hate on a childrens character who was designed to bring adults and children together to enjoy Star Wars? Seriously, the movie was not just designed for the people who hate Jar Jar, it was made for everyone. He was NOT out of place within the Star Wars universe. One he brought silly humor (which some enjoy, myself included), second he featured a goofy alien. He showed that goofy aliens silly beings exist, and even have an impact in the galaxy.

    The people you meet, the goofballs in real life, do you just dismiss them as irrelevant?

    In Star Wars I'm thrilled to meet every character, even the goofy ones. He played a pivotal part in the defense of Naboo and the fall of the Republic.

    Putting down any this is my Star Wars and accepting this alien, for who he was, makes more sense than hating on a childrens character who was designed to lighten the mood and entertain. This whole attitude 'Star Wars Star Wars must be serious all the time all the time my movie my movie' really needs to go.

    • The summary is the Prequels were not as bad as some made it out to be. We just have selfish individuals who when you don't meet THEIR expectations act like Sith and children, crying and kicking up a storm.

    George Lucas never deserved the kind of resistance and backlash he got for the universe he created, he was passionate about it and called the Saga his children.

    And this attitude permeated the community, even up into his own ranks. They didn't even use ANY idea of George Lucas in Episode 7. I am not saying George is perfect. (Not saying it was a bad movie, but not great either.) What I am saying is imagine the Star Wars we could have Episode 7-9 if they kept George Lucas as a consultant, and this illegitimate hatred and bias perspectives, had not interfered. Imagine WHAT WE COULD HAVE HAD. We could have had the best of both worlds, we could have had a near perfect Star Wars.

    Instead there is even more infighting now over Episode 7 and everything else because of people not understanding Star Wars, the characterization, and what makes Star Wars great.

    Thanks for reading! (ewok)
     
    #1 YubNubBub, Dec 29, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
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  2. Obi-wan pereira

    Obi-wan pereira Rebel Trooper

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    I agree with you man. I couldn't have said it better
     
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  3. Admiral Petty

    Admiral Petty Force Sensitive

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    I agree somewhat. Although I have a much bigger issue with the portrayal of Anakin later in the trilogy. He jumped from sweet little kid to @$#hole between films. Once Hayden Christensen took over, Anakin was exceedingly unlikable and unrelatable. This in turn undercuts the tragedy of his fall at the end of the trilogy. He was somewhat more likeable in RotS, but not much. He and Padme's relationship was also one of the worst executed onscreen relationships that I have ever seen. Additionally, we never properly see his relationship with Obi-Wan built up, etc.

    As for Jar Jar, while he's not really my cup of tea, I always thought people were exaggerating a bit much when they talked about how annoying he was. As far as issues with the PT go, Jar Jar is very far down on the list IMO.

    I also agree that people have been far too hard on George Lucas. Even if the Prequels were somehow the very worst films ever put to the screen(which they aren't), I fail to see how losing one's touch later in life and making movies that people don't like should lead to the amount of hate that the man got. As a human being, George seems like a stand-up guy who cares about his family and community.

    I have my issues with the Prequels, as many fans do. That being said, I've never seen them as an all or nothing affaire where you have to either love everything or hate everything about them. It's OK to recognize flawed things in movies you love and to recognize good things in movies that disappointed you.
     
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  4. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    This is something me and my uncle were arguing about tonight at dinner, regarding Anakin. He was saying how the character was treated badly among other things. However, and I agree with you everything you are saying here, that he was portrayed for a specific reason. His "wooden" acting for example was the result of him being emotionally stunted from being a slave and immediately indoctrinated into a jedi order that looks down upon emotions so him falling in love with padme and not dealing with all of his emotions properly led to it.
     
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  5. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    On this matter, I don't know if fans are really too hard on him. He really just said "You people, who made me a billionaire and keep piling up the money, F YOU. F YOU and everything you liked about these movies."
    He botched the prequels. His awful writing was the shiny spear through the chest that killed those movies, everything else was just overkill tbh.
    Then he made the special editions. And then he essentially refused to released quality copies of the theatrical cuts and has all but said it's never happening.
    Then Indiana Jones 4.

    So if fans were hard on him, it's because he wasn't willing to give any ground on the fans and just kept digging in harder. And his claims that "this was always the story I wanted to tell" is obvious BS or Georgie is into some really messed up stuff.

    Does Lucas OWE fans anything....well kinda, we did make him a billionaire then he basically said, nah screw you.

    Do some fans take it too far and too personal? Yes absolutely.

    But Lucas has done absolutely nothing to lean back into the good graces of fans and just kept blaming fans for not liking stuff instead of making quality stuff. He's earned most of his grief.
     
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  6. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    I love George Lucas, even though I have never met him personally, for all the joy, he has given me as a child, and now as an adult. I feel bad about all the backlash he received for the prequels. He justified his direction in TPM by calling himself a visual director. Lucas was wise to sell to Disney. It shows how much of a genius he really is. I often thought, what would happen to his IP after he passed? I wondered how much of a burden it would be on his children. Now he is able to enjoy it in his retirement from filmmaking. George has time now to buy and read Star Wars comics. He purchased all the original art form Marvel's Han Solo comic book LOL. He enjoyed it so much.

    My feelings were hurt when Disney didn't want to use any of his concepts for the sequel trilogy. I too believe he should have stayed on as a consultant. I remember when he asked Ford if he would do a stand alone Han Solo film and Ford thought Lucas was losing his mind. I also felt bad because I think he made Ford's career. Lucas' comments of the white slave master's of Hollywood shocked me beyond belief. I can relate to his pain. I also feel bad for Ahmed Best.

    After watching TPM for the first time, I was speechless. My expectations were not met but I watched TPM 4x in the cinema. I enjoyed watching all the web videos from the official site leading up to all the prequel films. That was the best part. I still shake my head when I watch Jar Jar in the end battle scene but I still like the film. I have several copies of the prequels on dvd and blu-rays so I'm a huge fan. I understand that Lucas made TPM for children, and I see all 8 films as one story. I can't wait for episode 8!
     
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  7. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    There's something I would like to ask you my friend and by no means this is with intent to argue but to try to understand a point you bought up that I have heard many fans bring up in the past. Many fans argue about Anakin and Padme's relationship being bad but is this really a fact or are we nitpicking? I ask because when I look back at the OT, Han and Leia's relationship made no sense whatsoever. There was no logical reason for those two to fall in love except Leia likeing Han because he was a bad boy and nothing more. While Anakin and Padme's relationship slowly developed and they talked about it and even tried to fight it, Leia just fell for Han's bragging and macho displays. I know this might seem as blasphemy to OT purists but even as a little kid I always found this funny and wondered why Leia fell for Han in the first place when Luke was a way better choice. Anakin liked Padme from the moment he saw her and his obsession grew from that moment on. He tried to fight it but then the situations that constantly bought them together was just to much for them to be able to resist and they gave in. Many can see their relationship as a doomed tragic love and not just oh look I like him cause he's a bad boy!
     
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  8. Darth Board

    Darth Board Clone Commander

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    You can't understand why Leia would fall for the handsome, charming, free spirited and roguish man instead of the cute wholesome, nice and honest boy - have you met any women?
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 29, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 29, 2016 ---
    Nobody was expecting a standoffish character and quite why you would think that would make him somehow relatable to people is beyond me. Going from one extreme to another without any subtlety or nuance doesn't make for a great character.

    Furthermore saying Jar Jar....

    ah, you know what, I can't be bothered - it's just the usual logically challenged BS full of nonsensical excuse making for GL. I see you have 206 dislikes in 84 posts - that's some going - so you're probably a troll anyway.


     
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  9. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    The problem is, only Lloyd's portrayal was like this. Christiansen's Anakin was insufferable from his very first scene. Unless the point Lucas was trying to make was that "Anakin simply became a jerk over time" rather than "Anakin was corrupted by the Dark Side", I'm not sure this is an accurate point to make.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not crazy about Lloyd's portrayal- but they didn't stick with it, when perhaps they should have. There's almost no cohesion between the Anakin in Ep1 and the Anakin at the beginning of Ep2
     
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  10. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    People didn't dislike Anakin because they couldn't releate, they didin't like Anakin because he was introduce as a child, which didn't fit with Obi-wans comments in the OT, he was an unlikable prat, poorly written and poorly acted, and his turn happens way to fast and isn't all that believable (he goes from wanting to kill Palptaine to joining him in like 45 minutes)

    People don't hate Jar Jar because he was designed to appeal to children - lots of children's movies are praised and loved by older audiences. Jar Jar is hated because he isn't funny, he is annoying and to some people offensive. People like 3PO, but most don't like him being a battle droid in AotC for the same reason - it just wasn't funny.

    While I do feel bad for all the backlash Lucas got for the PT, he isn't without blame. The PT reeks of a passion project were one person controlled almost all aspects. The script, actors, directing, effects etc... were all exactly what Lucas wanted and when you do something like that, I feel you have to stand up and take the criticism.
     
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  11. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    This is spot on for a lot of things. People didn't just find Jar Jar offensive, but half the new alien races he made were fairly awful racial stereotypes. But not even in a Mel Brooks tongue in cheek way (funny she doesn't look Druish). Just sort of in the worst possible way.


    1. That didn't justify anything for the PT, it just explained why he did what he did. Justifying it would be saying it made sense. It still doesn't make a lot of sense. It's still bad writing and directing by Lucas.

    2. His concepts were not well received by most. Had he not gotten tired of SW in ROTJ and stuck to his actual original story, then his ST plans might have been used but otherwise, they would have likely been on par with the PT. He gets a bit more credit than due for how deep he planned this universe before ROTJ.

    3. Harrison Ford didn't like Han Solo much. So barring Lucas giving him a dump truck full of money and then some more money, I don't think he'd be interested in it at any point in time. It was never going to realistically happen. Ford wanted Solo dead in ESB.

    4. There are bits and pieces of the prequels to enjoy. And there is nothing wrong with enjoying them. But they are bad film making. More than I love Star Wars, I love movies and film. Taking the SW blinders I have off, and the PT is a lot of poor film making from Lucas. He clearly needed to relinquish some control and needed a "No." guy. Marvel largely lets their directors do what they need to do to make their movie now. Why does it work so well to tell a larger story? Because they have Kevin Feige as the "No." man for all these guys to make sure it fits within the larger story. Lucas needed that in the worst way.

    This made me actually laugh out loud. Because it's true.
     
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  12. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Yeah, the Gungans, Nemoidians, and Toydarians were all unfortunately portrayed as similar to certain actual groups- worst of all, the characteristics of Star Wars species groups could pretty easily be linked to unfortunate stereotypes of the groups they apparently represented. It's pretty tone deaf.
     
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  13. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Which is actually a direct result of lazy writing.
    It's okay to base characters off racial or other archetypes to create a diverse world, but when you don't really build depth to them they come off as 1950's blackface bad.
     
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  14. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Right, I mean, sometimes we have to base fiction a little off of reality. Star Wars is relateable exactly because of this. If Luke Skywalker had been a neon-based lifeform that spoke in nothing more than gaseous screeches, I have a hard time imaging the movie would've been as successful.

    But when you make the character with the arguably Semitic-sounding voice carry some of the most inflammatory and generalizing Jewish stereotypes- well, I hope it was just lazy, because it's even worse if it was done intentionally.
     
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  15. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Agreed.
    And it wouldn't be that bad with Jar-Jar if he wasn't essentially Song of South era "Wesa happy workin for the massa" level stereotype bad.

    Jabba The Hutt and that whole thing was very much influenced by the Italian-American mob and their methods.
    But they did it without having him eating spaghetti, wearing a gold chain, drinking wine and hitting his wife.
     
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  16. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Well, at least not until Pizza the Hutt.
     
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  17. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Which I think was Brooks' point. Haha.
    Brooks is by far the best at using racial and ethnic caricatures in a funny manner.
     
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  18. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    Prequels are not essential viewing, they are merely the backstory of the OT and were written as such. If you don't like PT, then don't watch them. Simple. The OT is still watchable without the PT.
    ;)
     
    #18 SKB, Dec 29, 2016
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  19. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Sure. None of the films are essential viewing, though I'd highly recommend most of them.

    We're just having a conversation on the merits and mistakes of them. That's what forums are for.
     
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  20. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    I'd recommend them if you're a fan of the SW lore.
    I wouldn't tell a friend who isn't a SW fan to watch them.

    I think people get so frustrated over them because of the potential they had. People don't get mad when something they hate stinks
     
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