For people who disliked the Prequels, consider this:

They're characters are quite different I don't disagree there at all, but the essence of the relationship across the castes is what makes thing compelling.
I also agree that it makes sense and isn't well executed.

The similarity is the nature of the relationship: low dating high.

 

See, that's the thing. Han Solo is so often being referred to as the "bad boy" in this thread, but that's more of an image than anything else, really. I mean, Han is often looking out for his #1, but he's also time and time again proved himself to be a pretty good guy. Even at the end of ANH, after he left the Alliance, he came back and saved the day.

Anakin, on the other hand... even by your own admission, has done terrible things. And not so much in the letterman jacket, smoking behind the cafeteria "bad boy" kind of way we see with Han, but more in a Dahmer/Bundy type of way. He's constantly trying to corner Padme to get her attention, even when it seems rather unwanted. He openly admits to the murder of the Tusken Raiders- something Han would never do, not with the women and children at least. And in the end, how does it work out for everyone? The fall of democracy, the massacre of the Jedi, and the greenlight for technological terrors like the Death Star.

I mean, even if you're not comparing Han to Anakin, Han really isn't that bad of a guy. He's a bit of a cocky jerk, but I think that a viewing of ANH will show you that all the characters were pretty catty at each other at first. Luke was whiny, Leia was kind of standoffish, and Han was a smug moron. And then they grew as characters, they developed as characters should.

 

I have to disagree with you when you say that a near absolute majority of Star Wars fans loves The Force Awakens, even more so than Rogue One. This is not true. The only reason you may think this is just based on fan hype and nothing more as this already happend before. After the OT, fans were desperate for a new Star Wars movie. When TPM was announced people went wild and the hype was at incredible levels. Look at how many people say they hate TPM. This is the movie that has Jar Jar in it, tons of CGI, poop and fart jokes ect yet said movie is still on the list of the highest grossing movies of all time. Who put it up there? The fans. Why is that? Fan hype. Nobody knew what to expect of the new Star Wars movie and fans all over the world flooded theatres everywhere and that is why TPM is still in the highest grossing list to this day.

What happened after that? Many fans found the movie to not be what they expected but it was already to late. Before this could sink in, the money had already been spent and the movie was a super hit in the box office. Fan got angry, bashers arose and what happened? AOTC suffered greatly because of TPM. Gone was Jar Jar, gone were the farts and poop and the little kid saying ''That's so wizard'' but it was already to late. Many fans that were disappointed with the first movie weren't so eager to give the second one the same treatment. Many fans say AOTC was not so good because of the plot, CGI ect but the thing that mostly hurt the movie was nothing of this nature but the movie that had come before and now, history is repeating itself.

After many years of anger with the prequels, Star Wars fans were desperate for a new movie. Now that Lucas wasn't in charge, fans stormed the theatres just as they had done for TPM years before. The hype was incredible, the fans were overjoyed, it was the days of TPM all over again but then what happened? Fans discovered that all they got was a rehash of ANH and nothing more. Gone was most of the things that made Star Wars unique and now was the time when we had to swallow Disney's way of doing things and guess what? Now because of how many people have felt towards TFA, Rogue One is greatly suffering for it just as AOTC did because of TPM. I know so many people that after seeing TFA, they haven't even bothered going to see Rogue One. As time passes by it is more and more the amount of people that have grown disappointed with TFA and now RO which is an awesome movie, is suffering for it. It will still make a ton of money just as AOTC did, but I assure you that if TFA had been something new and exciting instead of a rehash, Rogue One would be making even more money than it is already. Nothing in TFA can even compare to seeing Vader in action like we had never seen him before and this movie really felt like it was an OT movie but due to TFA, it won't shine as brightly as it could have.

 

Han Solo was indeed a dork before he grew to be the classic Han we all grew to love but I don't believe he was a bad guy. Remember that when I say the things I say it's not to exonerate Anakin but just me saying that I would have liked Han and Leia's relationship to have been dealt with in another way. I make no excuses for Anakin however cause even how you describe him is a bit on the lightside as Anakin sometimes even came out like a stalker kind of dweeb. He was evil, power hungry, obsessive, and worst of all, he hated sand!

 

I guess I just don't know how you wanted Han and Leia handled then. Could you explain a bit? I see that you take issue with Han's behavior, but even here you admit that he wasn't a "bad guy".

 

Personally, I find it hard to believe George Lucas would have been satisfied with only an advisory role. It’s his creation. I don’t think he would have been entirely copacetic knowing any idea he brought to the table could be overruled. Not after having final say for so long. Also, it would be a tall order to expect anyone to object to, or engage in debate with, ‘the creator’.

 

It's like I mentioned before, I would have like their relationship to have been a bit more romantic and less leaning towards, I have a honest good hearted guy in front of me but I prefer the scoundrel over him. But make no mistake, I greatly love Han as he's a scumbag sometimes but he's our beloved scumbag!

 

That's fair. Personally, I don't really think that would've gelled well with Star Wars, but to each their own. I think that even when we see the characters starting to come together more, it's the banter that really helps keep the series' soul. If Han stopped shouting "Cover me, wouldja!" and started saying "Honey, are you doing okay?" in a concerned voice during firefights, I think the series would've suffered from it.

But it's definitely an interesting thought!

 

Yet the bare knuckle facts are that both general and critical audience like The Force Awakens more than Rogue One. The Force Awakens is even more liked than Return of the Jedi! You can't get around the numbers. Furthermore, most people have come to realize that The Force Awakens is not a 'rehash' of A New Hope but that it merely engages in a dialogue with the original Star Wars. It does something completely different and people do understand that 'information in a droid' in act 1 and a short trench run on a planet killer in act 3 do not make The Force Awakens an exact replication of A New Hope. Interestingly, Rogue One has the same plot structure as The Force Awakens, yet no one is comparing it to A New Hope. Perhaps the problem was that Jyn did not originate from a desert world but from a lush and green environment but from a lush green world, an unasuming place for an unasuming person. (you see, a "dialogue", Edwards even explicitly aknowledges Rogue One's similar plot structure to A New Hope) The plot had all the ingredients: orphaned child from a backwater, secret information, a planet killer, a family conflict, the death of a mentor etc. Even the narrative structure is the same: act 1. orphaned child thrown into a mission; act 2. needs to confront her past to understand her mission/destiny; act 3 protagonist comes into her own and embraces and fulfills her mission. This is just the narrative code of Star Wars. It will always be there, simply because it is part of Lucas ultimate thinking of what a hero in the star wars movie should be and how his or her trajectory should be plotted.

Trust me, VIII and IX will make it all clear for you why Rey's beginnings in The Force Awakens stand in a dialogue with Luke's in A New Hope. Rogue One and The Force Awakens stories have been extremely loyal to Lucas' mode of storytelling.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 29, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 29, 2016 ---

The point is, they have used the good ideas and thrown out the bad. Lucas' hand is still in the story. Rey (the orphaned scavenger), Kylo (the inverted heroes journey//"the Jedi Hunter"), Anakin's legacy (Darth Vader's looming shadow), Luke's role (handing Excalibur to the next generation), the Skywalker lightsabre (Excalibur, the family heirloom), the rogue imperial (Finn) and the moral ambiguity of the saga's third act. These are all Lucas' creations, his archetypes for the saga's last act! But they also scrapped some ideas (for now): the Luke/Anakin clones, Luke's hand, eternal life (scrapped for now, still in the mystery box) etc.

Look at this: Star Wars Legacy Volume 2 (Darkhorse), Ania Solo's story. It was based partially on Lucas' drafts for the sequels. After you read it compare it to The Force Awakens. See, this is still very much Lucas' story:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Legacy_Volume_2


As for the prequels. Back in the time, I wasn't really that disappointed with episode 1. It introduced some very interesting narrative pivots which would have had an awesome pay off/ resolution. But what Lucas did was disjoint episodes 2 and 3 from TPM by never actually resolving those pivots. Most importantly: Anakin's promise to free the slaves and his mother. This narrative trajectory was completely abandoned and was actually the heart of Lucas' original synopsis for the prequel trilogy. For some reason he abandoned the idea completely and only shortly delved into the issue of Anakin's mother in episode 2. By doing so, Lucas disjointed his story, it lost focus and it became a mess.

 

RE: Han Solo is a bad boy/bad guy.

 

Certainly not. But perhaps it’s the couple dozen other parallels that give people that idea

Spoiler

1. Our initial protagonist is confronted by the bad guys after receiving sensitive data.

2. That data is stored in a droid for safe keeping.

3. During that exchange, an acquaintance of our antagonist tries to stall for time and is killed for his effort.

4. Our initial protagonist is apprehended but not before taking out some storm troopers and then bantering with the main antagonist.

5. The initial protagonist is taken for interrogation by the main antagonist.

6. The initial protagonist is later freed by someone dressed as a storm trooper.

7. The droid wanders a desert where it’s immediately captured by an opportunist.

8. This act then leads the droid to our main protagonist.

9. The main protagonist encounters an unlikely ally and the new group escape the desert planet together, under fire aboard the Millennium Falcon.

10. Han Solo is confronted by underworld cronies about a botched job and has to get out of a tight spot.

11. The protagonist encounters an elder figure who views a hologram from the droid shedding light on the hidden data.

12. The elder figure gives a speech highlighting the Force and some historical tidbits that led to the current situation.

13. The elder figure leads the group to a seedy location full of questionable aliens in order to arrange passage for the data to the good guys.

14. The bad guys have a planet destroying weapon overseen by a ruthless military figure on equal footing as our main antagonist.

15. The military figure and the main antagonist both serve a bigger bad who isn’t explained in much detail.

16. The planet destroying weapon does what it’s supposed to do and it’s a big deal.

17. The good guys have a base on a forest world set among old ruins.

18. The group infiltrate the giant weapon and disable a key component of it, but then also rescue someone.

19. The elder figure is separated from the rest of the group and encounters the main antagonist.

20. The elder figure and main antagonist have a paternal relationship that has now soured.

21. The main antagonist kills the elder figure.

22. The main protagonist views the elder figure’s death from a distance and reacts as you’d expect.

23. The giant weapon is attacked by X-wings trying to exploit a weakness.

24. The giant weapon is destroyed in a massive explosion and our main antagonist presumably escapes in order to fight another day.

25. R2-D2 shows up at the end letting us know he’s fine after all and everything’s gonna be OK. Hooray!

 

You actually took the promise of a nine year-old boy to heart? Even I knew that Anakin would never be able achieve this when I first saw the movie. Lucas was right to abandon carrying out this idea.

 

Well, when you put it that way .

 

The only problem with those parellesl is that they are also present Return of the Jedi and Rogue One. . Furthermore, if you twist the square peg long enough it will fit the round hole.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 30, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 30, 2016 ---

Don't get me wrong. The Phantom Menace is my favourite prequel movie. Much of the critique to TPM was nonsense. Jar Jar was annoying, but his portayel was functional in that it allowed Lucas to present the Jedi as having the gravitas and patience they were known for. The effects were a good mix between practical and CGI. It was nicely balanced and felt grounded. The narrative was coherent and very similar to how it functioned in the originals. FUN.

 

The dislike had to do with the specific traits and mannerisms more than the general idea that he was "too good hearted" or whatever.

 

On what do you base yourself when you say TFA is better liked than ROTJ? Your own opinion? Numbers? Cause if indeed you are using numbers then you are forgetting that said movie came out in 1983 and you are trying to compare the monetary gain of that time to something from 2015. If that's all you have going for you then that means that movies like Frozen, Minions, Finding Nemo and Toy Story 3 are all better than TESB as well.

 

When someone says that TFA wasn't a rehash of ANH, I like to ask them this: What movie am I talking about here? ANH or TFA?

1-Important secret info is put inside a droid and bad guys are looking for it.

2-Hero lives in desert planet without knowing much about parents and without knowing about the great destiny that is soon to come.

3-Droid with secret info is captured by alien but ends up in the hands of hero.

4-Bad guys kill innocents while searching for the droid.

5-Bad guys have super weapon that can destroy planets.

6-Black helmet bad guy has an important commander that seems to have the same type of rank he has.

7-Hero meets wise mentor figure who tells hero about the Force.

8-Black helmet guy was once a good guy and he was very important to wise mentor figure.

9-Hero goes to alien filled cantina with mentor figure in hopes to find a ship to deliver the droid to good guys that are in war with tyrant army.

10-Super weapon is activated destroying countless lives.

11-Mentor figure with heros help tries to sabotage super weapon.

12-Black helmet guy confronts wise mentor figure after not having seen him in a long time.

13-Wise mentor figure dies during confrontation with black helmet guy while hero watches and screams.

14-Super weapon is prepared to wipe out rebelious good guys once and for all.

15-Good guys make desperate plan to destroy super weapon by using small ships who's wings look like an X.

16-Bad guys counter with ships that look like an H while the super weapon makes its final countdown to fire on good guys.

17-Good guys piloting ships with wings that look like an X make a trench run and are fired at by laser emplacements from super weapon.

18-Good guys destroy super weapon and go home to celebrate.