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For those who have seen the movie, do you like it or hate it?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Lord Skywalker, Dec 14, 2017.

?

What are your thoughts?

  1. Great film, one of the best in the franchise

    132 vote(s)
    40.2%
  2. It's a good film, but it has it's flaws

    79 vote(s)
    24.1%
  3. It's ok

    39 vote(s)
    11.9%
  4. It's not good

    30 vote(s)
    9.1%
  5. One of the worst in the saga

    48 vote(s)
    14.6%
  1. Anakin Skywalker

    Anakin Skywalker Rebel General

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    It was a fresh, challenging Star Wars experience, rich with complexity, and I loved it!
     
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  2. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    The counterpoint to that would be that Johnson was showing the humanity of the Jedi. The battle against the temptations of the darkside is not a one time decision that locks you into good for life. The daily struggle to not make selfish or evil acts is a constant struggle for all people, even Jedi, and even the great masters will often entertain the idea of evil acts. What makes them different is their ability to fight that temptation.

    I don't find Luke's actions to be a betrayal of the OT in any way. To me, it is an extension of the teachings of Yoda on Dagobah. It demonstrates the seductive power of the darkside. How it can even tempt a master when faced with his biggest fear. And how someone who is weak to its pull like Ben Solo, will succumb when faced with the anger of a betrayal like that. That scene shows the dichotomy of the light and dark paths. One resisting temptation, the other succumbing to it.

    Everyone will view this differently of course. But I think there is an argument there for why this is completely within Luke's character. Its all a matter of how you view the Jedi in the previous films, and your interpretation of the ongoing themes of the struggle against the darkside.
     
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  3. Jessica

    Jessica Rebel Commander

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    I thought it was a brilliant piece of film making.

    Yes there were a few off points, but it had so much depth, far more than any Star Wars movie since ESB.

    I cannot believe people genuinely think it is worse than the prequel trilogy films. Actually gobsmacked.

    The only thing I can think of is that so many fanboy theories are destroyed that it has upset those who have been clinging to them for the last two years.
     
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  4. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    I thought Rey and Ren scenes were particularly good. Great development for characters!

    PT comments shock me. The trilogy of Jar Jar Binks, "I hate sand" and badly written Padme Anakin romance, as well as boring federation scenes, is better than ST so far. Really? I will admit that the PT had some nice locations and acting (especially Ewan McGregor as Obiwan, and I even bought Natalie Portman a few times in ROTS), but aside from that everything is worse.

    Extremist fanboys react like children who've had their favourite toy taken from them after their head canons were denied. Although any rabid fans of any type are bad.
     
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  5. Malus Dagoth

    Malus Dagoth Rebelscum

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    Doesn't the PT deal with the same exact themes when it shows the principal members of the Order like Anakin, Yoda, Mace and Obi-Wan struggle with their feelings in contrast to what's demanded of them in their dogma?
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 15, 2017 ---
    :rolleyes:
     
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  6. Snoke33

    Snoke33 Clone Commander

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    I want to bring up again the fact that there was not one lightsaber fight. The first Star Wars with no lightsaber fight. That’s appalling to me.
     
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  7. bkb

    bkb Rebelscum

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    No. Rey and Kylo fight against Guards with lightsabers. Kylo vs Luke fight was with lightsabers.

    If you mean no lightsabers crossed? Then you dont count Rogue One as a Star Wars movie.
     
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  8. Snoke33

    Snoke33 Clone Commander

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    That’s what I mean no lightsaber on lightsaber. Luke didn’t count that was fake and they never touched. And I’m not counting rogue one. That’s not supposed to Have lightsabers anyways. This is Star Wars. Leaving out an epic lightsaber duel is like rocky not having a boxing match
     
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  9. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    can anyone remember the exact wording from Snoke when he was telling Rey and Kylo that he had made the bridge between them?
    did he say that he had been manipulating both of them? or was he just talking to Kylo at that point?

    it's bugging me.. the manipulation part.

    the conversation between Kylo and Rey about her parents... did he really know? or was he talking about something that Snoke had planted?

    what was the manipulation? when did he create the force bridge between them?
    Rey's visions of 'an island' when she was younger were confirmed to be that of Ach-To, and she herself said that she thought she'd been there before when she was in the tree.

    her ESB moment after she fell into the water... she seemed intent on discovering something.


    i'm getting more thoughts and questions by the minute, but i wonder if Rey being a nobody is true after all? (and no i'm not pushing for her being a Skywalker.. i think that ship has sailed)

    as Luke asked a couple of times... "who are you?"

    i've got this weird feeling i'm being ropadope'd, and that after finally answering one of the biggest questions.... JJ will hit us with a sucker punch.

    @master_shaitan.. i don't think this party's over :p
     
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  10. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I think this point would have a far more receptive audience if we actually had - say - an older Obi Wan Kenobi or Yoda or any established committed Jedi being tempted to kill someone based on future actions. Yoda sensed great fear in Anakin, knew that that led to the darkside, and yet never ONCE is shown contemplating killing Anakin. Even Mace Windu's decision to kill Palpatine came after he had already killed 3 other Jedi. And even then, the Jedi came to arrest him, not kill him. I don't think this is many of us merely saying "this is out of character for Luke" but that it's "out of character for any Jedi", let alone a Master Jedi who had already faced down the most powerful Force Being known when he was less composed, less wise, and early on in his Jedi walk.

    Worse still, the precedence for a Master failing to keep their Padawan's from falling to the darkside already existed. Ben's fall didn't require a compromise of Luke's moral character to fit into established Star Wars lore; it's like it was done to be edgey/controversial at the cost of logical consistency/coherency.
     
  11. Keith

    Keith Rebelscum

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    I feel very comforted to see that there are so many others who are as disappointed with this movie as I was...

    This isn't just the fanboy in me speaking (I work in the industry) ...so I have some knowledge on how a film should be written and I can safely say that this screenplay was a hot mess of garbage. It was totally confused....literally breaking 101 level fundamentals and Disney exploited this confusion by misleading the audience that it was intentional and well-crafted in their marketing campaign.

    I suppose I shouldn't be surprised...thats what happens when you hire an indie filmmaker with an ego and give him full creative control...RJ didn't just ruin the foundation that the TFA set up for the ST...he took a big **** on the whole series at large by totally changing the most beloved character in the franchise. I knew that I should be deeply concerned when I heard Hamill's comments about how he "fundamentally disagreed with every choice RJ made for his character" and "We have to give the audience what they want Rian." I have to commend Hamill for making the most of the trash he had to work with.

    It all comes down to this ------ the story had NO CLEAR MOTIVATION for any characters ----- focused on TOO MANY characters ----- did NOT follow a traditional 3-ACT structure-----suffered from horrible characterization/creative choices, ------ attempted too many cheap gags for laughs ....and overall just had no legitimate thematic truth and direction.

    Random bits:

    *The inciting incident was a joke...."were running low on fuel..."
    *ALL of the subplots were weak as ****....namely Poe's and Finn/Tan's...the movie would have done much better without them. As a result...we lost opportunities for rich storytelling on the island between Rey/Luke. All of these characters and mini plots made it feel like a Marvel film.
    *Yoda looked like he was on drugs....like seriously what was up with that creeper smile the ENTIRE time and his voice? ----and he felt like straight fan service...he needed to approach Luke just as he/Obi-wan approached him in the OT ---a time of weakness....of vulnerability. Instead he pops in to participate in Lukes bombfire and lights that **** up with a stroke of lightning....wtf.
    *Tons of worthless characters/creatures for nothing more than making $$$.
    *Flashbacks were awful - Hamill doesn't look young...its not believable and actually just makes the creative choice of Luke contemplating killing Ben even more insulting.
    *The entire Casino adventure was a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME.
    *BB8's scenes were largely unbelievable ---the one good scene was when he had tied everyone up...other than that I don't buy that hes driving an ATST....thats just insulting.
    *The way Snoke was killed off was one of the MOST ANTI-CLIMATIC moments in the history of cinema....considering this was the "Palpatine" of the new trilogy...I'm in disbelief and disgusted that this mega badass (who can throw everyone around like play things, insert images into and READ peoples minds, and shoot some epic force lightning - would go down from a lightsaber he set down on his chair. I'm in disbelief that after just ripping Kylo a new ***hole and basically calling him a little *****...he immediately pulls a 180 and wants to give him honors and complete his training. BTW -----this entire confrontation is meaningless....Snoke wants nothing to do with Rey - she merely serves the purpose of "completing Kylos training by being executed?" ....so lazy.
    *No lightsaber duel....really? Instead all we get is Kylo faking to be on Rey's side and them taking out some weird-looking guards together?
    *For the 2nd time - no group adventure (traveling as companions and as a group on a mission) This was in all 3 OT movies...everyone is split up and doing their own thing and it simply does NOT work.
    *The whole Luke showing up as an image and not actually being there took away all stakes and emotional weight in the moment, as well as his death.....like really WTF was RJ thinking??? This was the biggest slap in the face. The entire confrontation was a tease and a farce.
    *NO resolution at the end....ZERO.
    *Just KYLO as the enemy now? Hes conflicted with good/evil...how can he be taken seriously as the new "big baddie?"
     
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  12. Bimboo

    Bimboo Clone Commander

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    I think Rey is really a nobody, sold/abandoned by junkyard dealers. And I think Kylo Ren knows because she knows, he saw that in her mind.

    I'm a former Rey Skywalker advocate, but Rey being a real nobody (not the daughter of former jedi students or dark siders or empire followers but the daughter of poor and bad parents) makes sense to me for a specific reason : she wants to believe that her real family is not the one that abandoned her. That's why she asks who are her parents, that's why she waits for an imaginary family that she created in her mind. We were told that she does not remember her family : how can it be possible if she was 5 or 6 ? Well it's possible if this ideal family does not exist and Rey knows, deep inside her, that she is just lying to herself. She was abandoned, she imagined a fairy tale where her real parents would come back, but it's an illusion.

    She knows her parents, they were possibly horrible persons and Kylo Ren saw it in her mind.
     
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  13. Stefynoseu

    Stefynoseu Rebel General

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    Oh my goodness....I have so much to say about this film. I need more time to formulate my thoughts about it before going into detail, and I'm seeing it again tonight so I'll come back and post more after I've had time to process!

    First of all, I went in really upset because I pretty much knew about everything that happened. I swore up and down that if Luke died I'd be DONE with the film. LOL, well...Luke did "die" and I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm at peace with it. Yeah sure, there were some things I would have preferred handled differently, etc., but if I'm making an overall judgement, I'm okay with the direction it went.

    Sooooo.... this is just my opinion people and I am completely open minded to opposing views, but I thought this was by far the most spiritually and mentally deep SW film thus far. I genuinely thought that RJ's direction of the story was brilliant. It blew my mind! Uh...I have SO much to say you guys!

    I'll leave you with this: Rian Johnson gave a special "snippet" just for SW fans on opening night before the film and he showed how the phenomenal music is created and the masterpiece behind it. I LOVE that he gave respect to one of the most beautiful parts of the SW films of all time!! The music! Anyhow, it showed him working on the film and collaborating on the music, and you could just see in his eyes that this was not a man who wanted to ruin Star Wars. He was giddy and excited. He was passionate about it.

    I know there are things we aren't going to like, definitely there are some I'll point out personally, but I tip my hat off to him. I loved it. Give it a chance guys....pay attention carefully to what is NOT said and what actions are NOT taken. The blank spaces, so to speak.

    Sending positive vibes and may the force be with us ;-P
     
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  14. ims_33

    ims_33 Clone

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    Well Said!! I absolutely agree with everything. I, perhaps, found TFA a little more entertaining than you did, but it did feel a bit too much like a reboot of ANH and it did play things a bit safe. But, after the horror that was the prequels, it was just so refreshing to have something from Star Wars that was watchable.

    If a director wanted to see what taking a risk with a Star Wars movie was like, but without making it silly and gimmicky just for the sake of trying to be different they had only to look at how intelligent Rogue One was. It was different in its feel from all other Star Wars films. It took a risk by being more real in its feeling and by being a bit darker and grittier, but it still felt a part of the Star Wars universe. I was so optimistic about the direction of the Star Wars franchise after Rogue One, but now I see we are back to prequel level intelligence. :(
     
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  15. Darth Gnarlac

    Darth Gnarlac Rebel Trooper

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    Thank you for that clarification, I was way to hyped during the first screening :p I'm seeing it again today.
    Well that was how I interpreted it, Luke going into Ben's room, standing over him and then igniting his saber, felt very much like an attempt to kill Ben to me.
    Thank you for the clarification :) I was wondering because that action of killing someone, even if it was on his mind for just a short moment, did not feel like something Luke would do. But that is what I loved about TLJ, Rian really pushes the characters to new unexpected places. Going to see it again tonight!
     
  16. Loire

    Loire Rebelscum

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    This is the best summary of the movie so far.

    Thank you for posting this. I would 'like' your post but I don't know how on this forum. Where is the like button ?

    I cannot understand why anyone who thinks this film is any good in the context of Star Wars.

    Why can't people see that ?

    Why do we have all these debates about the what will happen next. ? Ryan was very clever with the film. There are so many sub plots. Snoke will come back. Blah blah blah. You have been had by Disney.

    Listen, they made this film up as they went along. You are reading to much into this. They have no idea what will happen next. It is a mess.

    All the decent characters are dead. Daisy quits after the next episode.

    The franchise has been destroyed by this film. It can't be recovered.

    It is finished.
     
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  17. Juniper

    Juniper Rebel Commander

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    Back home from my second viewing and I liked it even more. Right up there in the series for me but it's a little too early maybe to place it in terms of my favourite out of the series.

    Such rich storytelling and has a lot of heart.

    Love it, might go and see it tomorrow or Sunday again.
     
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  18. Darth Gnarlac

    Darth Gnarlac Rebel Trooper

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    Ahh now it's much more more clear to me, thank you! Looking forward to the rewatch tonight :D
     
    #178 Darth Gnarlac, Dec 15, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
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  19. Juniper

    Juniper Rebel Commander

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    Cause people are never going to interpret exactly like you, doesn't make anyone wrong or right. That's what an opinion is.

    I think it will be fine. More films are going to continue to be made not to mention two more anthology films to be released and a brand new trilogy to follow.
     
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  20. Hutts Can't Run

    Hutts Can't Run Rebel Trooper

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    I liked elements of it. I echo the general view that Canto Bight was not that necessary - it seemed to exist as a plot point to give something for Finn to do. I managed to avoid the worst of the spoilers so most of the film's revelations were a surprise, but there did seem to be a few off notes throughout. The SFX that saw l=Leia get back on board her ship being one. I have a ticket to see it tomorrow morning again and am not 100% decided on whether to go again or not. I watch a lot of films and some you want to see again instantly. For me TLJ is not one of those and I have seen many better films (old and new) for the first time this year.
     
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