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Force Ghost Plot Hole?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Clone Wars' started by SlapThePurpleHam, Sep 7, 2014.

  1. SlapThePurpleHam

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    * MILD SPOILERS FOR TCW SEASON 6 *

    I just finished watching the clone wars animated series. In the final episodes you fallow Yoda along on a spiritual journey where he is lead by Qui-gon Jinns spirit. Yoda passes a bunch of tests to prove he is worthy to learn the process to retain consciousness and become a force ghost after death. They don't directly say he will be a force ghost but they say Qui-gon's spirit is unable to show itself and take a form because his training on the matter was uncompleted when he died. Also we know from the OT that Yoda does master the force after death and become a force ghost. My question is how then does Anakin/Darth Vader learn and master this same ability since we clearly see him become a force ghost and retain his consciousness through the force after death? The only possibility i can come up with is that Darth Vader started questioning the dark side long before he became aware of Lukes existence. A jedi spirit or force ghost would have appeared to him and sent him on his path the same as Yoda and Vader would have had to partake in the same tests and path that Yoda did without the emperors knowledge. This i suppose is possible but seem's a little far fetched. This would mean also that it is not seeing Luke tortured by the emperors force lighting that turns him back from the dark side but that he had been turning back from the dark side on his own for a long time to secretly learn this ability.
     
    #1 SlapThePurpleHam, Sep 7, 2014
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  2. Hal Berger

    Hal Berger Rebel Commander

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    According to canonical section of Wookieepedia. When Anakin sacraficed himself to save Luke and redeemed himself with the help of the latter in the process, it was generally enough to let him become a Force ghost. Also since he's supposed to be the Chosen One, it sounds rather natural that he would turn into a Force ghost.
     
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  3. SlapThePurpleHam

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    but much of what is "canon" on wookiepedia no longer is canon. and the new canon shows and explains what must be gone through to retain your spirit as a force ghost in the afterlife.
     
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  4. Ceruleanlord

    Ceruleanlord Rebel General

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    In ROTS Yoda gives Obi-Wan training that he must practice while he is exiled on Tatooine. He says Qui-Gon has found a way to return from the netherrealm of the force, and he will teach him how to communicate with him. Maybe Anakin could communicate with him without this training, since Qui-Gon first to briefly trained him.
     
  5. Legend Knight

    Legend Knight Force Sensitive

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    I think Qui Gon helped him. In Lord of the Rings when Gandalf died he said everyday was like a lifetime of the earth. So what is only short time in the physical world could be an eternity in the force world. That was always the way I thought about it anyway.
     
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  6. Chronodin

    Chronodin Rebel Trooper

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    It could also be that when a Jedi dies, they become one with the Force and are able to communicate with others who have become one with the Force (an afterlife, basically), though not all are able to manifest in the living world as Force ghosts. Perhaps when Anakin died, Yoda and Obi-Wan were there to welcome him into the Force and either teach him to become a Force ghost at that point, or possibly his spirit was "tied" to Yoda and Obi-Wan's spirits and it was because they were able to do it, possibly aided by how close Anakin and Obi-Wan were, that Anakin was able to "tag along". It's quite a bit of retconning, though. :) I think you're right in that it isn't something that was fully considered when Episode III opened that door with Yoda's line about Qui-Gon.
     
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  7. Ceruleanlord

    Ceruleanlord Rebel General

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    I know in the ROTS novel Yoda says he has a new master and that it is Qui-Gon. I seem to think Vader may have communicated with Qui-Gon in his meditation Chamber.
     
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  8. Vegeta Fett

    Vegeta Fett Rebelscum

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    I think he could, he definitely follows him as when he was slaughtering sand people, "Ankakin...Anakin noooooo"but I always thought it was because he was so connected to the force. Also Palpatine could have teachings none of us know of ? Either way I hope the go into more detail in the future
     
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  9. Duck Duck Goose

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    I actually wondered why Vader appeared as a force ghost as well after watching the final season of The Clone Wars. My immediate response was that it was because he was the chosen one, just like a previous poster described. However, I am starting to feel that this might be elaborated more in the upcoming sequel trilogy.

    Anakin's involvement in the sequel trilogy seems to be quite a mystery. I am inclined to think that his spirit became a force ghost and appeared before Luke through the aid of Yoda and Obi-Wan. He might not be able to interact with Luke just yet, but emerged as an image to further clarify to Luke (and the audience) that he is now reunited with the Light Side of the Force. It is sort of like how people undergoing near death experiences (or in some cases dreams) might see images of their friends and family, just to let them know they are okay. However, Anakin might have to undergo trials in this other worldly existence to be able to fully interact with Luke or other Jedi/Skywalkers.
     
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  10. Ceruleanlord

    Ceruleanlord Rebel General

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    Another thought, was Vader haunted by Obi-Wan's ghost after he killed him and Yoda's after he died?, trying to convince him to turn back to the light. I find it hard to believe Luke was the only one able to see force ghosts, I know Yoda could hear them, But what about Leia or her children?
    Could force ghosts train jedi? "Strike me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."
     
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  11. daffy72

    daffy72 Force Sensitive

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    The idea of a force ghost is retaining one's consciousness after death so they should indeed be able to teach others if they can be perceived by the Force Sensitive student.

    Maybe Vader studied the Whills' teachings and came upon transcendence that way. It could be the Whills learned from the same Force Priestesses as Yoda
     
  12. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    According to the recent "Inside The Clone Wars" videos, Dave Filoni has said that George Lucas told him the specific reason that this happened... Which he refused to explain to the audience.

    The only tips that he offered were that Yoda's journey wasn't necessary to actually learn the technique, but that it was a test of character that he had to carry out in order to prove that he wouldn't misuse such a power, and that Yoda briefly explaining his journey to Anakin might have been the first step for his eventual transformation into a Force Spirit. George Lucas has also explicitly said that Sith cannot use the technique; Anakin is special because he was a Jedi, even after all he'd done.

    My guess is that it's an important plot point that they're saving for a movie or something.
     
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  13. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I did enjoy the Qui Gon Obi won reunion on Mortis when he returned as a force ghost. I wonder what else they will do different this time.
     
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  14. Javi-Wan Kenobi

    Javi-Wan Kenobi Rebel Commander

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    Actually, I believe that "Qui-Gon" on Mortis is not Qui-Gon at all, but The Son trying to tempt Obi-Wan
     
  15. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    He did appear to both Anakin & Obi Won i saw the episode he did not transform into the son. He was also on the second death star witnessing Luke taking Vader's mask off along with Kenobi & Yoda.
     
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  16. Javi-Wan Kenobi

    Javi-Wan Kenobi Rebel Commander

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    I think we didn't see the same movie...
     
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  17. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Oh it was not in a episode or deleted scene my girlfriend informed me of it on wookieepedia.
     
  18. Javi-Wan Kenobi

    Javi-Wan Kenobi Rebel Commander

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    Not canon, just a picture from a Topps card
     
  19. Darth Jason 141

    Darth Jason 141 Rebel Commander

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    I believe that it's because he was the chosen one,Yoda and Obiwan helped him come across for Luke in that final moment,and he redeemed himself when he killed Palpatine.It isn't said that he was a Force ghost after Endor(As of the NEW canon) .
     
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