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SPECULATION Force Ghosts

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by theborgv, May 5, 2015.

  1. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    And we're moving on with the debate.....K??? ;) This thread has been a source of contention, so let's just go forward instead of exchanging blows. Thanks.
     
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  2. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    I feel as if they're obliged to put Yoda in the film, and if they really want to score points with the fan base.. they'll put Obi Wan in there instead. Perhaps both?
    It would be incredibly awesome if there's a scene of Luke talking to Obi Wan and Yoda again.. but I know that for some reason or other it'll be unlikely. I think Yoda will appear to Rey at some point. They have to include him purely for fan service/merchandise sales.
     
  3. ChrisI

    ChrisI Force Sensitive

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    Just thinking, if Luke is only in the film towards the end, what sense and where would Yoda's appearance take place, and what sense would it really make? Just seems a bit odd, to have Rey giving Luke his saber and forcing Yoda's ghost.
     
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  4. DarthWalker

    DarthWalker Force Sensitive

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    If I were the writer, I would show Luke in deep meditation...almost where his spirit leaves his body as he is need of the advice of someone much wiser than he, and show him in a vision like on Dagobah. Where he enters a Jedi temple and the Force Ghosts of many Jedi are there, like in the Jedi temple circle of chairs, and Qui Gon, Mace, Yoda, Anakin, and Yoda are all present to talk to him and give him encouragement. Then maybe he walk out with Anakin, and have him give some fatherly advice to Luke. Then the vision fades and Luke is ready to become a master and teacher to new students. Or, maybe they tell him not all the Jedi were killed, and he must find them and unify them together to defeat the new threat.
     
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  5. Jar Jar Darklighter

    Jar Jar Darklighter Clone Trooper

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    If they do include force ghosts in this new sequel trilogy, I hope it's because their inclusion drives the story, not merely to please fans (although I'll be the first to say I don't mind references, cameos, easter eggs etc, as long as they're done right). You're right though, I'm sure Yoda's return would seriously drive up merchandise sales.

    One way or another the filmmakers will have to address the question of "Hey, what happened to those force ghosts?" Even if we don't end up seeing them on screen, I could picture Luke making a comment about Obi-Wan, Yoda, or Anakin that may allude to either their continued presence as force ghosts or to their departure.
     
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  6. ThePurloinedFowl

    ThePurloinedFowl Rebel Commander

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    I wrote a fanfic in which Anakin, Obiwan, Yoda, Mace and Qui-Gon all appeared to Leia. Several of them had to introduce themselves to her, and she in turn introduced them to Rey and Finn. I know it would be highly pricey, but it would be a means of connecting the prequels with the rest of the franchise, and it would give the powers that be the option of including the older dead masters in scenes with the new, young Jedi as the series rolls onward.
     
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  7. Jar Jar Darklighter

    Jar Jar Darklighter Clone Trooper

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    In the OT Obi-Wan's return as a force ghost was out of necessity to the story. In the original script for A New Hope, Obi-Wan Kenobi wasn't going to die. It wasn't actually until they started shooting the film that George decided that one of the characters needed to die and he chose Obi-Wan. But clearly that created a new challenge in telling the next chapter of the story. "Who trains Luke now? How does he find this new mentor? How do we tie up the loose ends between Luke and Obi-Wan?"

    At some point while writing Empire he came up with the idea of bringing Obi-Wan back as a "force ghost" so he could tell Luke where to find Yoda and eventually have the "from a certain point of view" discussion in ROTJ. And then of course Yoda and Anakin show up as force ghosts too at the end to crash the Ewok village party.

    But what happens after that? Do they continue to appear to Luke over the years and give him guidance as he attempts to rebuild the Jedi order? Does Luke become a hermit and just hang out with force ghosts? Or do Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin "move on" now that Luke has brought balance to the force? I guess we'll have to wait and see if that's something that is addressed in these new films.

    As far as TFA and the sequel trilogy is concerned, I'm not sure if force ghosts are necessary. In fact, I think that they could potentially be a detriment to the story if they aren't done right. Personally, I don't want to see a bunch of force ghosts popping up everywhere. Our new heroes need to go on their own journeys without a force ghost holding their hands. And if Luke is filling the mentor role, we don't necessarily need Obi-Wan, Yoda, or Anakin. Although, I suppose it could be cool to see Anakin appear to Kylo Ren (assuming that Kylo is indeed his grandson as it's been rumored).

    If force ghosts do show up at some point in the ST, I hope they don't detract from the story or come across as fan service but rather serve the story in some way. I'm not worried though. I think JJ & co. know what they're doing.
     
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  8. Itsnotimportant

    Itsnotimportant Rebel Commander

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    Except there were no facts laid out.

    It is a story problem that Yoda somehow is able to connect with Ezra in the aforementioned episode.

    Once again the problem is that people in this thread are not differentiating between what they like and what is a story problem.

    However this is a relatively smaller squabble in the grand scheme of things, the real problem is that Kanan and Ezra even exist in this era.

    Their interaction with Yoda, Vader, Tarkin and others and the very existence of inquisitors is lazy writing that skirts the line as close as they possibly can to not outright contradicting the movies.

    The statement that fiction is 100% subjective as in themes, rules of how the world works, the emotions motivations and experiences of the characters etc. are all completely interpretive, is plain and simply wrong.

    It's got nothing to do with whether you enjoy this stuff or not, your enjoyment of anything does not determine what's it's made of.

    No matter how much you really like Ahsoka Tano, her existence in canon makes positively no sense if you're only watching the movies.

    No matter how much you like the fact they brought back Darth Maul in The Clone Wars, it makes no sense that he survived the events of The Phantom Menace. In fact it makes so little sense that they never even really explained it, they just simply state that he did. That somehow his anger kept him alive and somehow he ended up on some other planet eating rats in a dump.

    And finally you might not mind Qui-Gon making a reappearance in TFA or the other sequels and think it could be cool, but it positively makes no sense from a storytelling perspective, and the ideas for scenes being described here also could not achieve anything for this story.

    For one, this is not Luke's story and he is most definitely not in training anymore. He's Obi-Wan's age in ANH here, clearly his character is in a much different place.
    Furthermore, whether you like it or not Qui-Gon's has positively nothing new to add here, his purpose in the story has been served. Having him make a reappearance for any reason is pure fan wish fulfillment, and is the kind of thing that probably wouldn't even get shot let alone end up on the cutting room floor.

    It serves no purpose and just having him back all of the sudden creates story problems.

    If you feel the need to see Luke getting Force Ghost lessons from Qui-Gon why stop there? Why not a flashback to him getting potty trained by Aunt Beru?

    Oh because it's got nothing to do with character or story and you all know that, it's got to do with "Man I really like Qui-Gon and it'd be so cool if they brought him back!"
     
    #68 Itsnotimportant, Jun 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
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  9. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    Pointing to things that have actually happened is fact. You not liking it, is opinion, just the same as someone else who does like it. (By the way, I share a very similar opinion on most, not quite all, of the points you mention.) But literally everything you have cited , whether part of your original or now edited response (for example, "lazy writing"), is an opinion, not a fact. Period.
     
    #69 Dark Toilet, Jun 5, 2015
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  10. mecano

    mecano Rebel General

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    not at all. I have no problem to see Hayden as well.
    no, I don't mind it either.
     
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  11. Wayne

    Wayne Rebel Official

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    Except we don't know what the story is. Or who some of the characters are. Maybe Maz knew Qui-Gon? We don't know.

    I agree, Qui-Gon appearing would be a tough sell but I don't agree it would only be to sell toys - because we don't know what the story is beyond a few leaked details. We know from the title it has something to do with the Force Awakening. That's about it.
    _____________________

    I think if you asked even the most casual movie fan to list 5 things associated with Jedi, "ghosts" would be in there because surviving death is remarkable and cool. I imagine the list would go something like, Light Sabres, Magic, Robes, Ancient Religion and...um...oh yeah, coming back as a ghost. If anyone can think of a Jedi characteristic that deserves to be on that list in place of "ghosts", let me know - because I can't, and that's why I think there will be ghosts (most likely Yoda) in the ST....
     
  12. Darth Zloi

    Darth Zloi Dark Moogle of the Sith

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    Forcing his ghost ... haha, I see see what you did there!!
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 6, 2015, Original Post Date: Jun 6, 2015 ---
    I'd be shocked if we didn't get something on this topic in the Shattered Empire comic. Whatever that may be, could either increase or decrease the likeliness of Force Ghosts in TFA.
     
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  13. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    That's f***ing awesome.
     
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  14. Itsnotimportant

    Itsnotimportant Rebel Commander

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    Uh, that's exactly what I've been saying this entire time. Thanks man. This isn't a game of pool or chess perhaps that's where you're getting off on the wrong foot? There is nothing you can possibly bring to the table that somehow turns the idea of Qui-Gon returning in TFA making clear sense or being likely, especially to Liam Neeson.

    Ya let that sink in for a minute. This is so likely to happen the actor associated with the role wants nothing to do with it at all.

    It just makes sense! Not just storywise but clearly the people want this!

    Ya no and get over it. If you're so smart think of something better.
     
    #74 Itsnotimportant, Jun 7, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2015
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  15. Darth Zloi

    Darth Zloi Dark Moogle of the Sith

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    Wow, guys ... why does having a difference of opinion have to degenerate into name-calling. Does is hurt when someone doesn't like your idea? We aren't all going to agree on things. Are we here to discuss Star Wars as a community or step up onto our soapboxes and prove how much smarter we are than everybody?

    I think we'll all be well-served to be prepared to not like everything about the movie (even though I feel it will be great, I'm sure there are some things I won't like). The movie isn't personalized for us individually.
     
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  16. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Force family.
    fh.jpg
     
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  17. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    You are such a troll... and clearly pay no attention to anything anyone else actually says. IAM NOT IN FAVOR OF A QUI-GON FORCE GHOST IN Ep. 7. Pay attention.

    Again, everything you have said is your opinion only... and that is my only point. Your opinion is no more valid or "right" than anyone else's. So quit acting like you are sole authority on everything Star Wars. Try taking your own advice and get over yourself.
     
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  18. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    It is very silly, sometimes I wonder if certain members have ever been on a forum before.
     
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  19. Kit Fisto

    Kit Fisto Rebel Trooper

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    Maybe someone can help me with this question. I've heard multiple people mention Mace Windu in regards to being a force ghost and I'm wondering where it is stated that he attained the knowledge to become one. The only force ghosts that i was aware of were Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin.
     
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  20. Darth Zloi

    Darth Zloi Dark Moogle of the Sith

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    Nowhere ... not even in Legends. Most likely wishful thinking. I can't even see how it would be retconned ... he died before Yoda began to teach Obi -Wan.

    Yoda did start his training during TCW, but there was no mention of him passing this on to Windu. Though, I suppose he could have made Mace privy to his interaction with Qui-Gon ... I personally doubt it.
     
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