Full ST Backstory Theory

Yep.

 

Glad we fanaly established Luke is powerfull. That means legacy saved.

Now let us save legacy even further.

Palpatine underestimated Luke,
obviously a wise Snoke does not want to repeat such misjudgment.

Snoke's wisdom is great, and is derived from his knoweldge of the Force. He is aware he can not be sure he can defeat Luke since the Force is with him, but he has diminished Luke's options to fight.
Also Snoke is fragile, as already officialy stated, we dont know jet why.

He took from Luke most powerfull apprentice he should have, Ben Solo.

"It is where you are from. What you are made of. The dark side—and the light. The finest sculptor cannot fashion a masterpiece from poor materials. He must have something pure, something strong, something unbreakable, with which to work."
―Snoke (TFA novelisation)

-of course Snoke is that "sculptor"-and as we already know he influenced Ben from birth.

Whatever the knowlege of Snoke is ( and is immense), the Force has awkened and could strike back, which means be on the side of Luke and his apprentice. Luke got his new apprentice,Rey, Force has given her to him. Snoke is in trouble. Now he will train Kylo to a full extent.

Obviously if Snoke will train Kylo even further in the subtleties of the Dark Side
this means Snoke's knoweldge of the Dark Side is extraordinary, he is a defined master of the Dark side.

 

The original post explained this quite well. Maz does not say "your parents are never coming back." She says that the people Rey is waiting for (the ones she thinks deposited her on Jakku and abandoned her) are never coming back. Rey assumes they are her family. We've seen this sort of play with words and ambiguity before.

 

What if the power in the unknown regions was SKB. An ancient weapon (not unlike what the Inquisitors and Vader were after on Malchor) that was out there. The return of such a powerful weapon scared Thrawn. When the Imp Remnant reformed they discovered the weapon and utilized it for their own purposes. Snoke is a figure not unlike Upe Tashu but with little to no actual force power or training. He however was able to reach out to Kylo offering advice giving him pushes toward the dark. He has studied and knows secrets and darkside lore but like Tasu is not the real deal. But he suspects Kylo could become something great.

Just throwing this out I tend to think Snoke has it together (not omnipotent but is a significant threa).

 

Let me remind us of facts:

1. At the end of TFA Snoke asks for Kylo to be brought at him to finish his training.(only a Master does this)

2. In TFA novelization it is stated Snoke had at least one apprentice before Kylo Ren.(again a property of Master).

3. Snoke is male alien powerfull in the Dark Side of the Force, official Disney statement and consensus.
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Snoke is powerfull Force sensitive alien, master of the Dark Side of the Force.

Can we finally abandon delusions of little Snoke librarian and start debate according to clear facts ?

 

Please don't you consider many things facts that are simply not facts. I enjoy discussion with you but some of the things you post are interpretation of facts and you ignore that those facts might allow for other possibilities. So as much as I enjoy axiomatic logical discussion I have respect when some things are still subjective.

I don't know how many times I have said your findings are very possibly correct. I am just not 100% on many things. Because what we have assumed to know about SW is subject to change.

NOTE THE WHAT IF AT THE START OF MY LAST POST.

Perhaps he sees himself as a teacher. The Night Sisters taught Sheve about sorcery. Does anyone assume that his training with the Night Sisters was submission to a master. I tend to agree with you I even offfered doubt about my own speculation. But "only masters do this" is an educated guess.

See this is interesting. Did not remember this from any discussion. I would love to see the quote.

I tend to agree. Though I don't think his power is NECESSARILY extreme.

When the evidence removes doubt sure. I'm not even saying Snoke the librarian is likely. I just wondered if it is possible that his agenda might be to see Kylo Ren rise because of his own devotion to the Dark Side. Seeing Ren as the possible return of a force user to power. Rather than truly being one himself. He would be like Lor San Takka in the sense ha was wise but not necessarily well practiced.

@McDiarmid you do great work. You have gathered great ideas from a variety of sources. I would be surprised if some of the things you have posted aren't true.

I just don't always agree that the limited facts lead to the same conclusions.

 

Kylo Ren himself asks Snoke to give him more knowledge. He almost beggs Snoke to give him a drop of his knowledge more and he will crush Rey ( which resisted Kylo's interrogation moments before).

Then Snoke says, ....bring her to ME.

Librarian will not have curriage and confidence to face girl that has just resisted, in fact beaten a natural born strong Force weilder(and quite trained already), a Skywalker (by bloodline) ,Kylo Ren.

So Snoke is confident he can overmatch anyone's Force abilities in the galaxy( save for Luke's ,we can presume this).

Can you face fact in this, can you at least turn an eye and look trough this periscope I precisely tuned for you, , and touch the atom of term FACT in what am I saying about Snoke's Force abilities?

 

This sentence made me literally lol. Still drunk from last night?

 

With you and your ally I must talk in a terms almost like from quantum physics. First I must prove significant λ that we have enough evidence to consider λ significant, and then I must use a "periscope"causing vawe function collapse to show you christalized focused fact. In this case about Snoke's power.

Of course you will lol( though I recommend lulz) on this to, in a misconception of continuity of debate about proven fact.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lulz

 

Can you paste that text from the TFA novel where this is stated? I read the TFA novel but do not remember that part.

 

“I have never had a student with such promise—before you."

Ren straightened. “It is your teachings that make me strong, Supreme Leader.”

(TFA novel, page 139)

 

Right. Snoke has knowledge true of ancient masters, dark side force dieties or someone who has proven knowledge.

This a fact. Great.

This is an educated guess not a fact. One I tend to agree with. But he also might have tricks up his sleeve or believes that Kylo (along with his guards) can handle things.

Not a fact. Total speculation. It fits your theory. And as I have said may be correct.

I have looked not everthing you see as fact are facts. They are informed guesses, interpretations of what some facts might suggest and your own speculation.

This is SW. They throw curves. Obi-Wan told us a fact. Anakin was killed by Vader. But then we learned more information. Forgive my hard skepticism. But I don't call it fact unless its 100%.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 7, 2017 ---

Thank you.

 

Please check your spelling next time you compare yourself to a quantaum physicists. May make it a more believable argument.

 

This is good one , I must admitt, . Rey beats Kylo in Force-mind fight, than Kylo goes to Snoke crying she is strong in the Force , than Snoke ( who is not a Dark side Master, but lying Librarian), says , "bring her to me", in order for Kylo, Snoke , and his Pretorian guards beat Rey together. hahahaha.
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I apologize if been merciless.

Here - for my redemption for people who read my "monologues" to this point ( a selected few indeed) , they will get something from me, a sort of unique knowledge (or insight).

One of the fantastic things about the TFA novel is that we get the internal details that could never have made it to film.

When Kylo Ren uses the Force to unlock her mind, he seems to accidentally also unlock her Force potential, breaking some sort of barrier within her mind.

This sounds ... like Rey’s mind may have been altered by another Jedi to forget her pre-Jakku life…

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 7, 2017 ---

dyslexia is, I guess, a price I payed to be able to develop other abilities.

I do whatsoever sincerely apologize for my poor English, and I mean it.

 

Dam now I feel like an ahole.

 

No apologize necessary.

Reducing my speculation to its weakest and poking fun at it is a straw man argument. Snoke the lying Librarian is laughable but a warlock student of Mother Talzin who has wrestled his way to power, or a Yupe Tashu student of the dark arts might have a lot secrets, perhaps Snoke is from the Acolytes of the Beyond. Having discovered an heir to Vader is doing what he can to bring his new idol into power any of these are still on the table.

 

There is argument on your side which only I know it seems, thankfully, ...but here for the purpose of open and democratic debate I will post it to.

One thing is much clearer in the TFA novel than the film:

in the novel Snoke is afraid of Luke Skywalker. In his final conversation with Kylo Ren, before Rey escapes, Snoke is prepared to destroy an entire system so no one finds where Luke is, himself included. Destroying the Resistance is Hux’s motivation, but he is practical, seeing that the system has vital resources the First Order could use. Snoke will have none of it. Destroy the system so that no one can ever find Luke Skywalker. It may appear bold in the film, but in the novel, it reads as desperate. Snoke constantly speaks to either destroying Luke via Kylo Ren or the First Order’s military, or making sure Luke stays where he is.

Now this seems to push things on the side of Snoke not been powerfull, still I believe he is afraid because of his wisdom and knowledge of the Force, by this Snoke sees in advance, and has probabaly prophesied Luke, or Luke's pupil could be his undoing.. I think his body could be problem also as he is very damaged.

I believe Snoke's knowledge of the Force gives him insight in Luke's family place, and that is special place, they are choosen family. So he afraids of the fact that Skywalkers are the "hand" by which Force acts. In this way Snoke's sucessfull influence and drag of Kylo to his side was preemptive act and great victory for Snoke.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 7, 2017 ---

There are many signs that Snoke is very powerful darksider.

1. His power of manipulation ( this would not be proof of force ability,but he manipulates Force sensitive indviduals to, Kylo, even as a child.)

2. His damaged body somehow works. He recovered from probabaly mortal injuries, and it is obvious that Force keeps him alive.

3.As I mentioned he does not hasitate for obviously extremly powerfull Rey to be brought at him for him to interrogate her personaly, which means he knows he can use Force above Kylo Ren's level.

4.Kylo Ren regards Snoke's knowledge as precious, and almost begs for grace of been teached by Snoke more.

5. After bad situation at the end of TFA becames obvious, Snoke himself takes a desperate measure: Which is deciding that he will finish Kylo's training. That prooves Snoke has great knowledge,and he sees his own knowledge of the Dark Side given to Kylo will make him very dangerous "weapon"
That is probabaly greatest proof Snoke's knowledge of the Force is at least at the level of former Sith Lords.

 

gonna have to challenge you a little on these two, @McDiarmid:

• for #3, Snoke doesn't actually belief Rey is that powerful; he thinks Ren is just being a wimpy compassionate dingbat. probably a solid guess that Snoke feels confident that Rey is no match for him because he personally feels more powerful, but it has nothing to do with Rey's actual power.
  
• for #4, Kylo Ren's impression of Snoke cannot be trusted. his judgment is too clouded to be reliable. obviously Ren is learning from Snoke and Snoke is doling out the lessons very carefully and sparingly (controlling the knowledge). and obviously Ren himself is already rather powerful. but this doesn't actually tell us the limit or measure of Snoke's abilities.

we have nothing to compare and have not yet witnessed what Snoke is capable of. we can probably draw logical conclusions that he is a Force user and has considerable enough power to be in the position he currently holds, but we don't have any means of measuring that power against, for example, Palpatine, or Darth Vader, or even Luke.