Game of Thrones, anyone?

Seriously, what an episode! Even people have been whinging about it, and yeah there are some inconsistencies, I just see the episode as a whole and it's deeply satisfying even with the huge loss our heroes face.

@RoyleRancor maybe the Winterfell part is one that I thought a little odd but I guess it's going to develop something we will hopefully see in Episode 7. And yeah, those two - J & D - cannot deny their feelings anymore.

BURN HIM!!!!!

It was actually the parallels with the War of the Roses what enticed me to watch this TV series in the first place but it goes further than that. It goes beyond historical fiction; it adds several Tolkien themes, A Hero's Journey plus some tidbits from Greek Tragedy like the Iliad and the Odyssey. And your statement is totally biased, since even when it gets some of the main events of the Wars of the Roses as inspiration, it also gets inspiration from some other royal houses from Europe (like the Habsburg practically being the Targaryens of Europe for all that inbreeding - though they didn't marry between siblings, Daenerys and Jon Snow in some way being the endgame of the series would be in some way the unification of the Spanish crowns of Castile and Aragon with Isabella and Ferdinand - though we are not for sure, they've hinted at that).

But hey - it might be not your cup of tea, and we totally understand. But hey to each its own, and I'd rather watch this 10x rather than the terrible biased sugar-coated depictions of Phillippa Gregory about the Yorks and the Lancasters.

 

Yep, I haven't seen the second Hollow Crown series, I've just seen from Richard II, Henry IV and Henry V but they have been impressive.

BTW here is a really neat talk about the wars that inspired Game of Thrones:

 

I was 3 episodes behind till this Sunday and have been avoiding this thread like the Plague, but now Im all caught up and back like a babbling drunkard in the Kings Landing dungeon! HOLY CRAP HOLY CRAP HOLY CRAP! J and D are gonna make beautiful ice dragon babies together!

I agree with your assesment. The show has changed tone and feel of the show. At one point on Sunday I swore I was watching tLotR! To me that isnt a bad thing. I grew up devouring all of Tolkins books and watching Star Wars every chance I had. If GoT wants to be a little more Tolkinish I wont be mad at all. Im bored with the boobs and sex on the show and am thankful that the last season and a half they toned it down and focused more on character interactions, strategics and amazing action sequences. I want to see J and D create their own little ice fire breathing babies but I dont need to see the deed done. What I do need to see is D's oldest roast the living hell out of the ice king for killing its sibling...

 

Hahahaha believe me: had you asked me before Season 6 Finale if I thought they would have something, I would not believe it. But so far they have developed their interactions so neatly that I'm seriously a goner with these two.

 

But isnt the whole story really about them? I haven't read the books, but arent they called a song of fire and ice? Sounds like J and D to me

 

Interesting thread on the logistics of the raven speed here.

Essentially, their conclusion is that the amount of time it would have taken for the lake to freeze back up enough for the army of the dead to cross it should line up pretty well with the amount of time it would take for a Raven to reach Dragon Stone, deliver the message, and send Dany on her way. Roughly 4 days.

The math is pretty fuzzy, of course (as all math involving dragon flight and weight distribution of an army of the dead likely is) but it's an interesting read.

I think it's conceivable that the "Dirty Dozen" could've been on the lake that long, the show just didn't do a great job depicting the passage of time.

 

You can see the shift since season 6, that the show has gone from deep character studies and heavy character development to, okay time to wrap it up and becoming more plot heavy.

We aren't building new characters as much as we are wrapping them up. They just don't have the time anymore.
Im sure if this were in season 7, you'd get more feels for the time spent.

At least it's much better than the first four eps where it made no sense at all because they made no effort to discern time differences.

 

True, it's become very obvious now.

A creator of the show, Alan Taylor, acknowledged the "fuzziness" of time, by the way:

Also, consider that the original ranging with the Nights Watch in ACOK took place from like April to roughly November. Not too crazy to consider that they could've survived up there for a while, even if it is just four days.

 

Ravens can fly as fast as the authors need them to when you accept you are dealing with a world that has dragons and blood magik lol

 

Something I never understood is why a show that features dragons, blood magic and ancient fairy kids is garnering so much criticism about time...If you can suspend your belief for what I mentioned, why let the time thing ruin the rest? This is not necessarily directed at you, just more of a general statement.

 

My only issue is when it seemed to only benefit one side over the other, there was not a universal usage of time. It felt like the Lannister army was playing on 3x speed to everyone else at regular speed.

 

Well, they had to do something to make you root for the "good" guys

 

You can't sum up the War Of The Roses in only a 6 minute long cartoon, voiced by someone who can't even pronounce the placename "Warwick". (It's pronounced 'worrick', not 'war-wick').

 

Yeah, I like the comment Taylor made about "plausible implausibilities". Basically the "That's not how the Force works" of Game of Thrones.

In any good fantasy or sci-fi, your world needs rules. Obviously, these rules can exceed the boundaries of our own (such as having Dragons or The Force), and sometimes these rules can even have exceptions (such as a seemingly all powerful Night's King, or a Chosen One being especially gifted in the Force). However, it's generally regarded as bad writing to purposefully ignore these rules consistently when it favors only the plot in major ways.

And again, I think that this last episode isn't all that bad about rule breaking- I'd say that the lake's level of frozen-ness is a pretty good indication of the passage of time, even if the show didn't otherwise make that clear.

 

I haven't read the books but by comments from friends who have read them there are a lot of hints throughout the story that indicate them as being the central focus of the story. And it is amazing since both characters started like out of the main focus of how we started the story - apparently - him being a bastard who chooses a life of duty and sacrifice and her being sold as a broodmare with no direct claim to the Iron Throne. Perhaps it was because there were so many characters whose plotlines involved us into focusing more into the power struggles than the big scenario of the Long Night coming.

But here we are, Season 7, were most of the main characters are gone and we are left with fewer players. And now it has become clearer. Even Melisandre said it better: "I've brought Ice and Fire together." And according to this article, GRRM thought it so:

http://deadline.com/2017/08/game-of...ylor-beyond-the-wall-season-7-hbo-1202152264/

"We didn’t really know what a phenomenon it was going to be, and I think he was being less guarded than we’ve become since then. Anyways, he alluded to the fact that Jon and Dany were the point, kind of. That, at the time, there was a huge, vast array of characters, and Jon was a lowly, you know, bastard son. So it wasn’t clear to us at the time, but he did sort of say things that made it clear that the meeting and the convergence of Jon and Dany were sort of the point of the series."

Exactly! It is subtle but the action delivered it is quite exciting that you may oversee those weaker points.

 

I did like how she turned Arya's inaction criticism around on her. I actually feel the same about Arya of late.

I've heard some reasonable justifications; they're still young, sometimes going back to your childhood home can lead to some regression/atavism, and all their suffering would have taken a toll. I thought the dialogue should have gone more this way...

Littlefinger better watch himself if he wants to save face while Arya's around.

I'm glad I missed that blue-eyed vICErion advertising material. Is he gonna breathe fire or ice or anything now I wonder?

That bear did look great. I loved The Hound's face when he saw the flaming beast and how it took House Bear to bring it down in the end.

It was funny to see the Snowstorm ship sail – they literally held hands and the ship sailed!

"Don't have time"! That's what Uncle Benji said but there was plenty of time and room on that horse of his for two!

But yeah you're right, we can't have it all. I guess like any kind of design it's all a matter of compromise. For all the hangups I have about change of pace, characterisation, and some of the on-the-nose dialogue and themes (that I feel lacks some of the depth and multiple meaning we used to get) I'm still enjoying the circus.

I was saying “do it, do it” aloud hoping Tyrion would run onto a dragon after all that “you're not a hero” dialogue earlier.

 

I had thought for a minute it may have been Ghost that came to Jon's aid!

Sounds like the budget may have been too tight for a zombie polar bear and a Ghost appearance...