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General Pryde - Richard E. Grant thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Jayson, Feb 19, 2020.

  1. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    Capture.PNG

    I don't have much to say, but I just wanted to say... I LOVED RICHARD GRANT'S ACTING!
    Holy mother of god it was right up there with Peter Cushing's Tarkin.

    I could watch Grant play Pryde for days on end and never tire of it.
    If there were a mini-series of Pryde, I'd be sitting on the couch scarfing down popcorn in delight!

    I can't wait for TROS to come out on disc for several reasons, and one of them is the ability to just rewatch Grant's scenes!

    I think it gets overlooked a lot, but man...I just loved every single scene he was in. :)

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  2. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Attuned

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    Yeah. He kind of IS the Tarkin of TRoS don't you think? It's almost like he has to be there at the end to mirror Tarkin's presence at the start, like 'bookends' in two trilogies. Like in an A - B/C -- C/B - A structure sort of thing.
     
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  3. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    IMO Pryde was an unnecessary character for TROS. Everything he did could/should have been done by Hux. Seeing Hux in a similar position would actually made much more sense.

    Sometimes I don't get why directors/writer don't use their own set ups. Hux was there from the very beginning. He was set up to be the rival to Kylo Ren. This could have been a great story for TROS.
     
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  4. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

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    That's how I feel about Krennic, I guess to each their own.

    This. And take the Space horses scene- by the end of the movie he was just another TLJ Hux. I would have liked it better if he had been as smart as Thrawn and a real threat to the Resistance.
     
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  5. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Especially in a movie when you already have enough characters to try give proper screen time to. Then you add one more?
     
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  6. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Attuned

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    I kind of agree, or at least those were my first thoughts too. So I asked myself why is Pryde there? That's when it occurred to me that he way maybe there as part of a rhyming structure, to mirror Tarkin's presence in ANH. ANH is the 'standalone' episode that starts the series, and TRoS is the 'standalone' which ends the series. So, like Tarkin, Pryde is the one-off Imperial leader who then meets an almost identical fate. On that basis, it couldn't be Hux becasue he'd already been in two of the episodes already!

    But there are perhaps other reasons too, like as @Phil J in another thread said:

    "Armitage Hux was the First Order's equivalent of Joseph Goebbels- a brilliant orator and propagandist with a flair for political theatre but a rubbish tactician. He should never have been in charge of the fleet."


    So maybe Hux just wasn't the right character for that role. Also loyalty to the old Empire and Palpatine seemed kind of significant. Would Hux have had that?

     
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  7. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Then make him the right character. This is just a lazy excuse. Work with what you got.
     
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  8. Messi

    Messi Force Sensitive

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    I really liked this character, same with Captain Canady in TLJ. They have a strong presence on screen.

    I think General Pryde was created to give some backstory to the return of Palpatine. Unfortunately it was made poorly or the time wasn't enought to explore this better.
    I think there is one line in the movie where Pryde says to Palpy something like:
    "I've served you before".
     
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  9. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Attuned

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    Wouldn't the work of making him be the right character have to have been done in the previous two films?

    Rather than a lazy excuse maybe it's a thought out and reasoned writing development. JJ IS working with what he got - he looked at the type of person Hux had been so far and perhaps concluded Hux didn't have the right character traits and mettle to take control of Palpatine's fleet and to suddenly be a devoted loyal follower of Palpatine, so he decided somebody different was needed to fulfill that role.
     
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  10. greenbalrog

    greenbalrog Rebel General

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    I liked General Pryde, and Richard's E. Grant's performance in TROS, as I also liked Captain Canady's in TLJ. They bring the vibe of the old Galactic Empire, which is always cool.

    Now, I only saw TROS twice but to my knowledge everyone was caught by surprise when the Final Order was revealed, even the First Order council members, which includes Hux. I don't know the details of Hux's past, but I believe he was raised to become the face of the First Order, directly under Snoke, who were devices (both Snoke and the First Order) created by Palpatine. This served the plot of TFA and TLJ.

    So, Pryde comes in in TROS and can be seen as the rival general to Hux, someone from the old Galactic Empire. Hux never served under Palpatine as far as I know, so Pryde became handy to both Palpatine and Kylo Ren as a man that could be trusted by both to get the job done. I don't believe Hux would fit here.

    Could Hux's character be "worked on" to be used for the same purpose as Pryde? Perhaps.

    Although everything feels a bit rushed and chaotic in TROS, and we don't have enough time to get used to new characters, I feel Pryde was a good inclusion. At least it kind of worked for me. I also liked how Hux became a spy for his hatred with Kylo Ren. He couldn't beat him, so he preferred to see everything burn to the ground to let him get and stay in power.

    Perhaps he thought that when Ren was destroyed / removed from power, he could have taken over from the ashes of what was left. Since there was no credible opposition at the time, this shouldn't be too hard after all. All he had to do was get Ren out of the equation, and warning the Resistance and the rest of the Galaxy of Palpatine's plan, when something could still be done about it, seemed like the only way to achieve that.
     
    #10 greenbalrog, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
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  11. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Jedi Commander

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    Really dug this character. I liked seeing older First Order generals/admirals in TROS.

    I know that they've given the canon explanation that the First Order is a young, idealistic movement, etc etc. But in TFA and TLJ especially, it just felt like a "Hollywood version" of the Empire where everyone is a young, good-looking actor. Much prefer the old dudes of the Original Trilogy, Even as a kid, that detail lent realism to the story for me. Those people around the table in A New Hope felt like the sorts of military men you'd see in a history book.
     
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  12. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    One out of three is better than zero out three. But he actually was made the right character. In TFA Hux was this power hungry General, who wanted to become Supreme Leader. In TLJ he wanted to kill Kylo.

    Well, JJ was wrong then. Let's be honest- characters like Unkar Plutt, Snap Wexley, General Pryde and Beaumont Kin are just in the movies because they are JJ's friends.
     
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  13. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    I don't like to belittle hard working professionals or make light of their decisions, especially when all reports from the cast and crew are that everyone worked their arses off to exhaustion daily.

    Instead, I think it makes sense to just be alright with creative differences and preferences.
    I don't think anyone was being lazy or anything on this film - this film took a tremendous amount of work to accomplish.

    If there was any single point worth blaming, it would be that Disney didn't readjust the timeline when they rebooted the preproduction, which put the production at three months behind right off from the start, and they hadn't a script to work with yet.

    That's a really hard spot to be in. However, I don't even put that to fault because that's the business. That kind of stuff happens, and personally I like it when Star Wars is behind the 8 ball. Things get a bit sloppy around the edges, sure, but the best of what Star Wars has to offer as a creative art form comes out when it's hard up against the wall in my opinion.

    Now, this isn't a story example, but for one thing, if Disney had pushed it back, then Brandon wouldn't have invented a new process and approach to editing that I think will completely change editing and production as a whole going forward over the years. She went pure mobile so that she could be within 10 feet of Abrams on set and was editing on-the-fly with Grube, and neither Grube or Brandon had "their scenes" - all scenes were up for grabs and regardless who touched what last, either could grab it and work on it next, and both were doing that from the beginning, and both were around and available for Abrams to approach.
    This lead to amazing break through processes and flexibility in the production that otherwise just weren't normally possible.
    For one thing, it radically dropped the number of reshoots because if they were working on something and saw that it could use a reshoot, well...the production was right in front of them and they could just grab the actor(s) when there was a chance, toss up a green screen, shoot the add-in, and immediately toss it to the editing bin and put it to use.

    Further, if the actors were working on a scene and needed a reference, no one had to send off for it and wait for it to come back, or tough it out and just hope that the emotional continuity in their mind was matching what was captured before. This time around, they could just walk over to Brandon or Grube and ask to see the shot, scene, or sequence, and get their self-reference. Same for Abrams. He could just go back any time and look at something.
    Further, because Abrams was toggling between editing discussions with Brandon and Grube between takes on set, his mind was regularly kept fresh of what had been shot in comparison to what was being shot, and that allowed him to generate more engaged ideas on set with how things would tie in with what was shot before.
    Basically, it made it like the jump from analogue "daily's" to digital daily's, but one more big step forward. A rather huge step.
    And according to the editors, it made a huge difference in their editing, and improved it a ton to be able to be right there in the thick of the production on set.

    This is something that they just wouldn't have done if they hadn't started late and had so much to do in such a small timeline.

    And that's just a fringe item that doesn't have anything to do with the story.

    The story was massive. It was attempting to wrap up 8 films in one film, and it was attempting to do the Star Wars thing of carouseling through every theme and major narrative beat that had ever happened in every Star Wars film in one film.
    Cramming 8 Star Wars films into one Star Wars film is a very challenging task.

    There are always things that could have been different, and it's incredibly easy to do that from an armchair perspective, but it's a whole different world when you're the one sitting in the room, just you and Abrams and every white board in the studio is empty, waiting for you to figure out what to do with a ton of monetary and artistic investment at some of the highest stakes to date for the saga.

    That no one had severe health issues as a result of stress is a remarkable note regarding Abrams' charismatic ability to engage the crew and keep the atmosphere positive, enthusiastic, and friendly. Something that Lucas himself wasn't exactly that great at accomplishing, as much as we all adore his work.

    So, yes, there could have been different ways things could have been done. There always are.
    I could draft a long list of things that could be changed in Star Wars, but there they are. These wonderfully brilliant works of art that took every bit of energy and life of everyone working on them when they were made, and show every sign of that being the case in every film.

    Regarding Hux.
    Hux, along with pretty much any repeating character in Star Wars, falls victim to the same problem...there's no right way to go about writing these characters.
    Regardless of what you do, you'll bother someone with how you wrote the character.
    Some people love Hux just as he is. Others wanted him different.

    That's par for the course for Star Wars as far as I'm concerned. There's a dozen different general directions being pulled and wished for by fans for almost every character that appears on the screen.

    I could see Hux going differently, and it would have been interesting. I don't hate how he ended up being used in the film.
    And relevant to this thread, since pretty much everything I've written up until this line isn't relevant to this thread, if Hux had been different and made to be in the position of Pryde instead of Pryde, then I wouldn't have gotten Pryde and I really enjoyed Pryde.

    I enjoyed both of them. I can watch Gleeson and Grant chew scenes for days. Gleeson's so good, it doesn't matter to me what Hux is doing. He could be reading a dictionary and it would be fascinating. lol
    And I thought Gleeson played Hux just spot on in every way of the character that was being delivered. And if Gleeson ever had any problems with his character's direction, you wouldn't know it. The man has been a charm the entire time, and repeatedly has expressed an enjoyment of playing his role and admiration and love for Abrams - he was openly enthused talking about Abrams' return.


    But really....what I wrote this thread about wasn't to spark a debate over whether Hux should have been Pryde, or whether Pryde stole Hux's thunder, or if Pryde was some evidence of poor writing in some fashion, or a sort of literary recklessness.

    I created it to just say that Grant has some solid chops and his statement that he really tried to capture the essence of Peter Cushing's style for Tarkin in his portrayal of Pryde only makes his acting that much better, because daaaaa - m - n ... nailed it.

    He is also enjoyable. I may not get excited about Rogue One all that much, but Mendelsohn was enjoyable to watch. There's lots of good acting in R1 as well. :)
    I don't really see it as an "either or" kind of thing.

    I just felt like Grant wasn't getting any love, and good lord, he really chewed his role up so well that I felt like pointing it out. :)

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  14. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Force Attuned

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    Agreed, Richard E. Grant was superb. And the character was great too IMHO.

    Hux is, remember, was the “rabid cur” who can be a “sharp tool”. I actually still suspect Hux could have been acting on instruction from Palpatine too in TRoS - he doesn’t say he ‘wants’ Kylo Ren to lose, rather that he “needs” him to lose, which I find interesting. It would follow Palpatine’s M.O. to intentionally leak info (see Bothans in ROTJ!).

    But I think Pryde is a more professional and competent operator though - and with an apparent personal historical connection to Palpatine. “As I served you in the old wars, I serve you now”.

    Where we saw Hux serve the puppet (Snoke), Pryde serves the puppeteer. It’s another example of twos in TRoS, of which there are many, many examples. Specifically in this context you have two generals for the First/Final Order, paralleled by the two generals in Poe and Finn on the Resistance side.
     
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  15. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    I personally felt like General Pryde had a bigger role in the film than what they showed. I remember the early rumors that The Emperor had taken over another character and I felt like he was originally be that person. I can't pen point it down but something felt off with his character.
     
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  16. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    He had one scene cut.
    It was with Hux. They originally were involved in the beginning with Kylo cutting people down.

    It just didn't flow right and made Kylo's arc and role in that weaker, so it got cut and Kylo got the slowmo epic entrance.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  17. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    Interesting. Didn't know that. I still find something off about his character though. It was just weird seeing close camera shots of him. Maybe it was just the camera angles they used or something.
     
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  18. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    You can learn more about that deleted scene in the novel:
    https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-novelization-excerpt

    IMO this should have stayed in the movie, especially because of the Oracle.
     
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  19. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    Probably that.
    All of his scenes were studio shot except for the one that got cut.
    With how intercut his scenes were I could see that impression coming off.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  20. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    I think Grant did a phenomenal job as the Imperial Officer that I've wanted to see in these movies.

    Gleason kinda got shortchanged with Hux this time around, I'll admit. But I don't think Pryde is really to be blamed for that. I mean, ideally we'd have see these two butting heads a bit more, really.
     
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