1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

George Lucas Planned for Luke to go to a Dark Place

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by DailyPlunge, Nov 22, 2018.

  1. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Posts:
    948
    Likes Received:
    1,427
    Trophy Points:
    5,592
    Credits:
    2,013
    Ratings:
    +2,337 / 17 / -5
    I didn’t see Luke talking about how much he feels guilt for the death of his students. No word is spent on that issue. The only thing quickly addressed is that Kylo killed them. (And I be lieve the true reason as to why it was so quickly addressed is that the all point was to make us be sympathetic towards Kylo, the guy who killed them, so the less you talk about them, the better it is). I’ve seen Luke blaming with a 30 years of retard Obi Wan for his father’s turn to the dark side. And being remanded by Rey ( that wasn’t in the throne room) that he saved Anakin... doing the opposite of what he did with his nephew...
    However... if it worked for you, it’s fine.
    It really is.
    But it didn’t work for me. And not because I need to see every little bit or detail.
    I can imagine Luke being shattered and with no plans or answeres (and therefore in a far more tragic state of mind than he actually is in TLJ) because - like I said - for example, what worked with his father (and he believed to be the “right” Jedi way) this time didn’t work. What doing next? I don’t fu**** know. I’ll go away, away from the people I love, the people I am attached to, because that is what a Jedi should do. That is what I should have done, not training my own blood. He talks about hybris. Cool word, especially if you want to look like an intellectual, a scholar who read something about ancient Greek thragedies. But he never says (following my reasoning) that it may be a mistake per se - as a Jedi - to care too much about some people to the point you may miss the signals... these are 2 different things. He didn’t said that. He said, I saw something was wrong. But in my hybris I believed possible to pass him my strengths. No matter what. Because he had the mighty blood of the Skywalker.

    What we saw is Luke making the mistake he didn’t make with his father.
    And not realizing - even tho he should have easily done that - that the mistake was... that he was not in that moment a true Jedi. The Luke of the throne room, that made of him the legend he has become. If that’s the problem/ mistake - imo - then he doesn’t need to analyze his life that much, nor to call for the Jedi to end. The answer is there. He simply has to admit he was a jerk, not a Jedi and try to amend. Not hiding like a child who doesn’t know how or does want to face the consequences of his own actions, and hides from his mom/sister in this case.

    I’d loved hearing him say, that.. in his arrogance (not hybris that deals with the Gods will) he believed to be a far better Jedi than Obi Wan and Yoda ever were, as what he accomplished in the throne room with his father - refusing to fight - made him and us (as Luke’s fans) believe.

    However, again, I am glad you and other people liked it.
    And I’ll keep my head canon for me, to erase what I cannot buy and try to move forward.
     
    #41 lealt, Nov 27, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  2. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Posts:
    419
    Likes Received:
    938
    Trophy Points:
    4,142
    Credits:
    1,213
    Ratings:
    +1,262 / 16 / -5
    A word did not need to be spent on this. The visual of Luke kneeling with the incredible look of grief on his face as he leaned on R2 is all the words that you need. George Lucas never spent a ton of time on dialogue ( I wish he would have ) because he felt that images and music was more important. It is one of the things that makes the music only version of TLJ so good. Why use dialogue when the image will say far more. Remember a picture is worth a 1000 words. The pictures of Luke after he wakes up and climbs out of the rubble is what you are looking for.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  3. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Posts:
    948
    Likes Received:
    1,427
    Trophy Points:
    5,592
    Credits:
    2,013
    Ratings:
    +2,337 / 17 / -5
    .
    Then we don’t need any Luke and Rey conversations on the subject at all. Nor the 2 flash back scenes.
    Kylo turned. He killed some students in the process. Luke felt responsabile and went into exile. That’s all in TFA.
    But since TLJ deals with his motivations I am discussing his motivations.
    And it only takes to change the content of one dialogue you actually have in that very same movie to make his motivations different.
    If you want to. If you don’t want, again, it’s fine.
    Just don’t try to make it look as an impossible task. It’s not.
    It’s only another choice.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  4. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Posts:
    419
    Likes Received:
    938
    Trophy Points:
    4,142
    Credits:
    1,213
    Ratings:
    +1,262 / 16 / -5
    I dont understand your point. You are suggesting because words werent spoken by Luke to explain why he felt responsible because visuals showed the same thing suggests that visuals explaining other incidents should be removed. The point is the visual storytelling removed the need for dialogue. Your point that dialogue would have been needed had the flashback ended with Kylo defending himself and simply running off with no other events occurring. That simply is not the case of what happened. On screen we saw the consequences of Luke's failure. We say his academy destroyed, his students dead or joined the dark side. His nephew turned to the dark side. We saw Luke in overwhelming grief. We simply didnt need dialogue to explain it wasnt just Kylo turning that was the reason. It was all that occurred.

    As for needed Luke and Rey conversations. Of course we need them that is how the flash backs are shown to us. That is how we see Luke's failure.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  5. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Posts:
    948
    Likes Received:
    1,427
    Trophy Points:
    5,592
    Credits:
    2,013
    Ratings:
    +2,337 / 17 / -5
    I used a paradox.
    That because what I am saying since the first post here, that the point is not that Luke went into exile, but why he did.
    That the answer was given by TLJ.
    That we don’t know what that answer could have been had GL, JJ or my grandmother wrote Ep. VIII.

    And I gave one example of a different answer that could have been given to that question. Just to prove what should be obvious. There wasn’t only one possible way to answer that question.
    I gave one example. I pictured one scenario different than that of TLJ that only needs a different
    dialogue to work. Not an entire different movie about Luke and his backstory.

    If you want to discuss that, fine. If you don’t want, fine as well.
    If you’re trying to change subject in each post to avoid that discussion, I’ll stop here.
    It’s pointless.
     
    #45 lealt, Nov 27, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  6. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Posts:
    419
    Likes Received:
    938
    Trophy Points:
    4,142
    Credits:
    1,213
    Ratings:
    +1,262 / 16 / -5
    OK although I disagree with including JJ in your list. With all the comments and art in the art of books from 2013 which was 2 years before TFA came out it seems to me that it was pretty clear that it was Lukes failure with his new academy.
     
  7. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Posts:
    948
    Likes Received:
    1,427
    Trophy Points:
    5,592
    Credits:
    2,013
    Ratings:
    +2,337 / 17 / -5
    Yes but why?
    Is there a picture of Luke trying to kill his own nephew asleep? No.
    Are there pictures in that very same book of other villains that apparently in GL’s vision played some part?
    Yes.
    Do we have evidence that the character meeting Finn/Sam was - at some point - a Jedi and a former Luke’s student?
    Yes.
    Do we have pictures of Luke training Kira? Yes.
    There was a scene in TFA of Luke sourronded by stones he was able to make flying because not... he didn’t cut himself from the Force? Yes.

    There were millions of ways to explain how and why exctly Luke failed and went into exile?
    Sure. Common sense say so.
    Doesn’t that mean that I would enjoy better GL’s version? Not, I didn’t see that. And I don’t know.
    All I know, is that there is more than one single way to handle it.
     
    #47 lealt, Nov 27, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
    • Old News Old News x 1
  8. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Posts:
    419
    Likes Received:
    938
    Trophy Points:
    4,142
    Credits:
    1,213
    Ratings:
    +1,262 / 16 / -5
    None of that is my point. Concept art goes in all directions. Some accepted, some dropped. I love some of the OT artwork. Stormtroopers with lightsabers. Cool art, but never part of films. Prequel trilogy and the Jedi witches that ultimately became Maul. Cool, but never part of films. The point of this is that Rian Johnson did not just go off on a tangent and do what he wanted to do and ignored JJ and story group. He was part of the story development with all of them.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Cunir

    Cunir Clone Trooper

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Posts:
    58
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Credits:
    197
    Ratings:
    +119 / 0 / -1
    it's a shame lucas didn't focus on the sequel trilogy instead of the prequel one, because then the original actors would still have been young enough for him to continue on with his story ideas.
    one of the problems with the new sequel trilogy is that huge time gap in the middle where everything happens out of shot — we jump from the rebellion defeating the empire straight back to them losing again. it's as if they've forgotten to do a movie in the middle.

    he could have done the prequel trilogy anytime, because he didn't really need the original actors for that.

    i wonder why he did that? he must have really, really wanted to tell the story of anakin, because you would guess that the sequel trilogy would have been a much bigger moneyspinner with fan favourites like luke, hans, leia, chewie, C3PO and R2D2 in it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Original Original x 1
  10. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Posts:
    419
    Likes Received:
    938
    Trophy Points:
    4,142
    Credits:
    1,213
    Ratings:
    +1,262 / 16 / -5
    As much as I have loved the new ST (TLJ is now my favorite of all Star Wars movies) the biggest issue is that really the story was told. It was much more difficult to come up with story that everyone would love. As we see in the ST the direction to really go was a tragedy. This bothers many people.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Posts:
    1,387
    Likes Received:
    1,294
    Trophy Points:
    6,192
    Credits:
    2,005
    Ratings:
    +2,080 / 321 / -146

    Um . . . Abrams and other screenwriters for "The Force Awakens" had ditched Lucas' original plans for that movie and created something new. They may have borrowed some of Lucas' concepts, but not all of them. As for Luke going "dark" . . . well, that has already happened twice - briefly in "A New Hope" and a lot more dramatically in "Return of the Jedi".


    My disappointment with "The Last Jedi" had nothing to do with Rian Johnson's failure to "blindly worship Lucas' vision". I had seen Johnson's 2012 movie, "Looper" and was very impressed. I thought he would create an equally original and well written story with "The Last Jedi". I was wrong . . . at least in my eyes.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Posts:
    419
    Likes Received:
    938
    Trophy Points:
    4,142
    Credits:
    1,213
    Ratings:
    +1,262 / 16 / -5
    Why do people think that Disney was/should went with all of GL plans? If GL wanted to create the ST he should have done so himself. As much as I like the PT story GL did not execute very well. He chose to do far to much himself. I think he was really out to show people. Yet he chose to sell to Disney and from what I have seen a lot of his ideas lead to the ST story. Sure not all of it and not exactly as he 1st pitched it, yet the same can be said of the initial story and structure for ANH.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  13. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Posts:
    948
    Likes Received:
    1,427
    Trophy Points:
    5,592
    Credits:
    2,013
    Ratings:
    +2,337 / 17 / -5
    Key word being “story development”.
    And that’s my point.
     
  14. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    3,173
    Likes Received:
    6,749
    Trophy Points:
    85,967
    Credits:
    7,659
    Ratings:
    +10,450 / 259 / -93
    This is a bit of a straw-man since no one is making the argument that they used all his ideas.

    Again, as @Pomojema and many others have mentioned this thread isn't news. It's more or less just a reminder that many of Lucas' ideas were used in this trilogy. Luke being alone on an island and in a dark place was an idea long before Abrams/Kennedy/Johnson showed up.

    I really don't get the hostility about this topic.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Wise Wise x 1
  15. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Posts:
    419
    Likes Received:
    938
    Trophy Points:
    4,142
    Credits:
    1,213
    Ratings:
    +1,262 / 16 / -5
    I really think the hostility is because it is pretty much accepted by many Star Wars fans, particularly ones that didnt like TLJ, that Rian Johnson basically threw away Luke story development from TFA. Many believe that Rian Johnson just came in and ran roughshod over the story, ignoring what JJ setup. For some reason the "Art of" books were ignored for a long time by many. Maybe because they didnt support the argument that each film in the ST is being developed without a thought out 3 picture arc.
     
    #55 KeithF1138, Nov 28, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
    • Like Like x 4
    • Original Original x 2
  16. Charlie07

    Charlie07 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2014
    Posts:
    2,725
    Likes Received:
    4,755
    Trophy Points:
    14,102
    Credits:
    6,122
    Ratings:
    +8,159 / 159 / -53







    So we have been having massive internet HISSY FITS over luke for TWO....YEARS now because Rian (and jj at the beginning) made a slight alteration to some of George's ideas.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 2
  17. Charlie07

    Charlie07 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2014
    Posts:
    2,725
    Likes Received:
    4,755
    Trophy Points:
    14,102
    Credits:
    6,122
    Ratings:
    +8,159 / 159 / -53
    Correction: A year, not two. :confused::D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Posts:
    8,223
    Likes Received:
    27,449
    Trophy Points:
    154,929
    Credits:
    28,433
    Ratings:
    +37,488 / 126 / -63
    To that, I repeat myself:

     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Posts:
    16,672
    Likes Received:
    14,643
    Trophy Points:
    148,277
    Credits:
    18,975
    Ratings:
    +25,815 / 842 / -252
    I think that it is because a lot of people have a certain image of him in their heads and come to their own conclusions.
     
    • Wise Wise x 1
  20. Darth Chewie

    Darth Chewie Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Posts:
    191
    Likes Received:
    487
    Trophy Points:
    3,792
    Credits:
    1,290
    Ratings:
    +724 / 12 / -0
    Haha..
    Mike Zeroh is nothing more then click bait. I am convinced Mike sits around all day dreaming up ways he'd like to make the Trilogy, and then films these opinions and theories that masquerade as real leaked sources. He dislikes TLJ and uses that to feed his viewership and obviously his pay cheque. Check the comments on his videos, they are nothing but haters towards Johnson and TLJ. He always claims to have sources that he never backs up, and while I don't have the exact number, as I have not watched every video he has ever published, I am pretty sure his success rate of "Leaked Information" vs "Reality" is pretty close to 0%.
     
    • Wise Wise x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
Loading...

Share This Page