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SPECULATION George Lucas' Sequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by master_shaitan, Apr 21, 2016.

  1. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Ever since the Sequel Trilogy was announced, many have pondered what the story would be. And when Lucas dropped the bombshell that his treatments had been ditched, there was an even greater interest in just what his story would've been.

    What's interesting about Lucas' ST, is that for many years prior to its announcement, he essentially said that there wouldn't ever be a ST. That it would happen "over my dead body". That "there wasn't a story". Yet, come 2011 and Lucas is writing a treatment for Episodes VII-IX.

    The first question that needs to be asked is whether Lucas meant what he said about there not ever being a ST or if that was just him playing his cards close to his chest. The fact that he did write an ST (and had done so in the 80s) suggests that he wasn't being honest. But then perhaps he felt the PT did wrap it up? And so deciding to actually go ahead and make it may just have been a scheme to make LucasFilm as valuable as possible so he could sell to Disney and get as many dollars as possible for his charitable schemes.

    Regardless of that, are there any indicators beyond what Michael Arndt revealed about the story he was writing with Lucas as well as Lucas' "what happened to Vader's grandkids" quotes, that giveaway any potential ideas for what Lucas' ST had in store?

    I am wondering however, whether the framework of the ST was actually laid down in Revenge of the Sith and in his latter meddling with Return of the Jedi.

    Consider Revenge of the Sith for example and the inclusion of Darth Plagueis and his life creating and death cheating abilities. Was this something that would just be left unexplained? It seems likely that Anakin was created by the Sith, especially as this was Lucas' last thought on Anakin's creation (in the ROTS script, Palpatine revealed himself as his 'father'). And cheating death is something that every Dark Sider would aspire to - is that just left blowing in the wind? The other interesting thing concerning Plagueis was Lucas' involvement in Luceno's novel - Lucas provided Luceno with Plagueis' backstory and design in 2011 - just when Lucas was writing the ST. Who would Lucas' ST villain be? A new villain or someone he provided the framework to in his PT?

    And then we have Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw's Force ghost in Return of the Jedi. Was this truly about Anakin taking on the form his uncorrupted self or a move by Lucas that would allow him to reintroduce Darth Vader in spirit form in a Sequel Trilogy?

    Those are two ideas, can anyone think of any other potential ST ideas that Lucas hinted to in the PT or Special editions? I'd love to know Lucas' story. For me, they would be gospel - flawed or not.
     
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  2. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Ceterum censeo, DisCanon (Disney Canon ltd.) headquoters should be stormed like a Jedi Temple at the end of the ROTS and George Lucas re-installed as the Lord.
     
    #2 McDiarmid, Apr 21, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016
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  3. Bligh

    Bligh Rebel Official

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    ^^^^ I think your points are completely valid. I think Lucasfilm did pinch a few of George's ideas for the ST but it's hard to say.

    I love George Lucas and I think he has millions of peoples respect for creating Star Wars but I question if his Sequel Trilogy would be as good as the Disney era ST. Nevertheless his ideas would be amazing to see..
     
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  4. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I believe one of the only big ideas that was kept was a force sensitive girl .
     
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  5. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White Rebel General

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    I'm not being cynical when I say this, but I honestly think it was the latter. Especially as I feel like I read that somewhere.
    Personally, I would like to hear what he had in mind, but I am going to stick with The Force Awakens as that movie filled me with nothing but delight and anticipation for the next film beyond just wanting another Star Wars film but out of genuine interest and excitement to see where the story goes and what happens to our new heroes (and some of our old ones).
     
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  6. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Don't forget that he is just as much a businessman as a talented director/writer .
     
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  7. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White Rebel General

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    I know that he is a businessman. I wouldn't say talented director/writer, though.
     
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  8. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    American Graffiti, A new Hope,....help me out here.
     
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  9. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White Rebel General

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    I think you've proven my point.
     
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  10. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    I understand you point my friend but I have to ask, was TFA really that much of a good movie or were you simply filled with delight because like many others, you simply wanted a new SW movie? I ask you this because it is kind of odd for me when people call TFA a great movie that captures the feel of SW and then bash George Lucas. How can they not consider it good if it is an incredible ripoff of ANH? It kind of gets to me when people say these things because JJ just took EVERYTHING Lucas had done before, mashed it into a movie and gave it to us, and all of a sudden he's better than Lucas? How can people even rate TFA and compare it to any of the other 6 movies?

    Though I hope with all my heart that this is not the case, what's going to happen if Rian Johnson gives us a copy/paste of TESB? Can we then say that his movie is the best SW film ever? Is his movie way better than the one Lucas gave us? How can we even compare a movie like that with the rest? For me, SW is Lucas and though with this I don't mean to say that nobody can ever give us a better SW movie, yet it just isn't fair that we glorify other peoples work and bash the creator, when so far all we have been given is a rehash of a movie that Lucas brilliantly created.
     
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  11. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White Rebel General

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    Here's a simple explanation:
    When I was excited for Attack of the Clones after The Phantom Menace, it was because I wanted a new Star Wars movie.
    I'm excited about Episode VIII because I want to see Rey, Finn, Poe, and all these new characters again. I want to see how their stories unfold. I want to spend more time with them.
    Shorter answer:
    I was excited for Attack of the Clones because Star Wars.
    I am excited for Episode VIII because of The Force Awakens.
    I find the hatred for The Force Awakens due to its similarities to A New Hope odd. Unoriginality doesn't automatically equal bad. The Force Awakens has great, enjoyable characters and is a fun adventure. That's the spirit of Star Wars. It might have been similar, but it was well done. I mean, you can honestly give similar criticisms about The Force Awakens to The Phantom Menace. Anakin also grew up on a desert planet. There was also a battle against round, (partially) spherical space...thing that needs to be destroyed by one single starfighter. It's not a unique phenomenon.
    Hell, many stories follow the same basic storyline in many ways since it's the monomyth, the hero's journey.
    Is The Force Awakens better than A New Hope? In some parts, yes, in others, no. Honestly, I rank them about the same.
    Also, Lucas isn't the heart and soul of this series. He's the creative spark, yes. But he needs other people to help develop and execute it. He's an idea man, but he needs a filter, someone to talk to. And he showed his limitations with the prequels, especially in the director's chair. Considering the fact he didn't direct between A New Hope and The Phantom Menace, his shortcomings in that area were worsened, especially when it came to directing actors. Compare A New Hope, Empire, and The Phantom Menace and you can actually see what I mean.
     
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  12. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    It's because of something called "bandwagon ;)".
     
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  13. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    My friend I can dig similarities as there have been so many movies out there that it's hard to come up with something totally unique that doesn't have at least one thing that reminds us of something else. Had TFA been like this then sure, no prob, I would love it just as much as I love the other six movies but TFA was just a carbon copy of ANH. It's the exact same movie with new characters and better camera effects due to the new tech from this day.

    Now reguarding the prequels, it's my turn to say that I find the comments of angry fans odd. Many puritan OT fans hated it and that I know but somehow, these fans seem to think that they are the majority. They hate and bash so much about the PT being bad that they themselves have come to believe that the whole world is with them and that it's a universal idea that the PT sucked. I wonder if these angry fans know that some PT movies made even more money than the OT ones. TESB is the most loved OT movie and yet AOTC which is said by haters to be the worst movie of all made even more money than TESB. When you say this, fans quickly say that this is not about money and give other excuses but as a fan that as a kid grew up with the OT and has seen everything, the PT was just as loved as the OT.

    Something that is generally disliked just fades from existence. Sure there are always going to be a couple of fans but these are few and hardly seen. We don't go to conventions seeing tons of people dressed as Howard the Duck and there is no demand for anything regarding that movie. I loved HTD yet I know that film was a flop and it was hated by many. Sure it has a cult following but this is just a handful of us compared to all the ones that hate it. Now the PT on the other hand blew the world by storm. It was and still is everywhere yet purist OT fans try to deny this. You can't go to places where there are SW cosplays without seeing tons of prequel characters. You see the merchandise everywhere and there is never a place where you can't find OT merchandise without there being PT merch side by side.

    Before TFA came out, the PT haters filled their mouths saying that JJ Abrams hated the prequels and that he would steer clear of them yet it's funny how we saw some podracer engines at Jakku, clones were mentioned by Kylo Ren and there were podracer pilot flags in Maz Kanata's castle. When I talk to people that grew up with the PT, mostly all of them say they like it more than the OT yet to say this to a OT purist is to invoke the rath of the heavens.
     
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  14. Fooled Trooper

    Fooled Trooper Rebel Official

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    I dont understand how someone can hate TFA for having some soft nods to the PT. The PT is criticized for far more deeper and stronger reasons.

    Podracers are cool. Clones are cool too.
     
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  15. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    Oh come on my friend let's be real. It really doesn't bother me if so many people love TFA as we are all free to love whatever it is we like but saying TFA had some soft nods? Bad guys after good guy with secret info, secret info placed in droid in desert planet, bad guys kill inocents in village while they serch for info, bad guys have planet destroying weapon, lead bad guy was good guy that was seduced to the Dark Side, good guy with special destiny on desert planet, good guys need to go to cantina to get a ship to be able to get the secret info to good guy leaders, trench run to destroy planet destroying weapon, Han has to save the day so that good guys can destroy planet destroying weapon, bad guy kills good guy mentor figure, spy tells bad guys where to find the good guys that have the droid ect.

    Those were just a few things right off my mind cause if I take my time I can find tons more. Look, it's like I have said before, many fans were so enraged by the prequels that they were just yearning for something new to the point that they didn't care what it was as long as it was nothing related to Lucas. TFA came out and fans have latched on blindly not caring how the movie came out because they WANTED this movie to be better than the prequels. JJ Abrams gave them a rehash of ANH which apart from being a carbon copy, contains so many bad scenes that you can barely see what is going on eather from said scenes being to darn dark of to fast. It pains me to see this yet fans have bashed the prequels so much that now, even though TFA didn't deliver what many expected, they don't have the guts to take it back and admit that the movies that Lucas made were way better than this copy/paste Death Star 3.0 version of SW.

    I know that many will deny this to death but I have to see the truth and this is what many fans deny. That the prequels were perfect? Heck no! I can do without Midichlorians, the Jedi acting as self absorbed dweebs, Jar Jar's poop, fart, dorky jokes and lots of other stuff but I know for a fact that were the fans not seeking an excuse to justify their hate towards the prequels, things would be alot different.

    It's like I said on another post, let's pretend that we lived in a world where George Lucas hadn't invented the prequels and we were yearning for something new and all of a sudden he lets this new director make a SW movie and he would have given us TFA. Do you have any idea of how many people would have hated it? Having waited for so long and all that director had given them was a movie that was a clone of ANH, had no known aliens or creatures, totally got rid of all the fighters we knew except for X-Wings and Tie Fighters, ruined Luke as a character, destroyed the newly formed New Republic offscreen when we hadn't even been able to see it, made Han and Leia fail as both parents and as a couple, given Rey the ability to use the Force in a way that defied its use in the OT, and to put the cherry on the sunday he goes on and kills Han in that really lame way having used a whinny Vader wannabe character that fans are not even sure of they like him or not. Can you imagine the outrage? How many people would have stormed out of the movies claiming that said movie was the worst SW movie ever and that they wanted Lucas back?
     
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  16. Crusifix

    Crusifix Rebel Official

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    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White Rebel General

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    Okay, another person is trying to use the box office to prove the PT was better received.
    Here's Wikipedia's adjusted domestic grosses (2016):
    1. A New Hope - $1,314,850,434
    2. The Force Awakens - $936,519,683
    3. The Empire Strikes Back - $751,204,635
    4. Return of the Jedi - $724,064,338
    5. The Phantom Menace - $699,066,761
    6. Revenge of the Sith - $460,743,580
    7. Attack of the Clones - $414,858,818
    OT Total Gross (adjusted for inflation 2016) - $2,790,119,407

    PT Total Gross (adjusted for inflation 2016) - $1,574,669,159
    Here's Box Office Mojo's domestic ranking adjusted for inflation and ticket prices (2016, $8.58 a ticket):
    1. A New Hope - $1,224,657,800
    2. The Force Awakens - $927,634,700
    3. The Phantom Menace - $727,805,400
    4. Return of the Jedi - $694,837,400
    5. The Empire Strikes Back - $676,638,000
    6. Revenge of the Sith - $509,004,900
    7. Attack of the Clones - $446,265,200

    Yeah, paints a different picture, doesn't it? It's like saying milk is more valuable in 2016 because it's "more expensive" than it was in 1977 before considering inflation.

    Look, it's fine to enjoy the PT, but to deny the fact that they are severely flawed movies (and I mean severely flawed) is foolish. I mean, I enjoy a lot of movies that I wouldn't call good. I have a large amount of affection for the 1998 Godzilla. But I know that it isn't good. I'm not going to go up to a huge Godzilla fan and try to argue with them because I understand their criticisms of it.
     
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  18. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    Sorry to say, but thats not the case. The PT recieved mixed reaction after release and it became more and more hated, while the OT is still considered timeless classic.

    Without the prequels TFA wouldn't have been made in the way it was. SW was in crysis ever since the prequels, and it needed to be brought back.
    Lets be honest my fellow SW fan. If JJ would've directed the prequels those movies would've been much-much better. JJ has always been better director than post 80s Lucas. JJ's movies are way more atmospheric and he is a lot better with actors and overal drama. The only thing I dont like in his movies is the pacing. Star Trek and even TFA feels rushed in some parts.
    The prequels from a directorial standponts are catastrophobic. There is no tension, no real atmoshpere, no build up to anything, the tone, the narrative and editing is incredibly boring and lacks any real artistic vision.

    Lucas's older movies on the other hand were really well directed. Both American Graffiti and THX-1138 are very well crafted pieces of motion capture. I really wonder what happened with vision after the 80s... Maybe in the 20 years break he just lost his ,,thing". He was once a great filmmaker though.
     
    #18 General_Tarkin, May 25, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
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  19. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    Sorry my friend but you are mistaken. I am not simply trying to use the monetary value of the movies as their sole defense. I talked about that on the comment below of the one you answered but just on a side note, there are always going to be fans who hate the PT and I can live with that but you know what's the main difference between them and me? That I don't live in denial. The PT is super famous and it was loved by many but OT puritans are never going to hit water even if they fell off a ship at sea. They can see everything everywhere PT related and they are going to live in denial. No matter what SW related event you go and see prequel characters everywhere, no matter how much merchandise about the PT sells, no matter that the ''hated'' TPM which I must add is Jar Jars movie made millions of dollars AGAIN after it was released in 3D, PT bashers are always going to try to convince the world that those movies suck.

    Do I live in denial like that? No sir. Is the PT perfect? Heck no! There are tons of things that I would change without a thought yet don't say something bad about the OT or the ANH rehash TFA because all hell will brake loose. Funny thing is though, that many many people don't have nothing good or memorable about TFA and their only crutch to try to defend it is to use their hate of the PT to try to defend it. Why is this? Have we gotten to a time when you can bash the PT but suddenly you are not a man if you say there is something wrong with the OT or TFA? That's odd. I love all six movies and I will keep enjoying them and if a SW movie comes out that sucks and it is forgotten because it was a piece of trash then I will sadly accept that as I have stated before about movies I love but they were flops and are hated by mostly everybody but taking movies that are famous around the world to the point that wherever there is SW there is PT and knowing that two of them are among the most highest ranking movies of all time but still angry fans are going to say they suck no matter what, then I guess this argument is going down in history as who shot first Han or Greedo even though the correct answer is Han shot Greedo but there are always going to be people who will argue against this. :)
     
  20. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    I understand your points but regarding JJ, there are various different opinions regarding his movies. As much as I have loved his Star Trek films, I haven't met a hardcore Trek fan who has said they liked them. ST Fans argue that JJ has been the worst that could happen to the series and they speak of many things he has ruined both characterwise and visualwise. True that there are many fans that don't like the prequels and I know that this is true but I see this as the same thing that is happening with the Star Trek franshise. The first movie was a overall success yet old school Trekkers hate it and that's how I see the prequels. No matter how awesome the new generation received them, the hardcore OT fans are always going to hate.

    Look at old school ST character Khan for instance. I found him kind of boring and I really liked the new incarnation but ST fans hated the new Khan as for them he was a trash compared with the original Khan. I love the OT as I grew up with it yet I have never found it flawless even as a child. Though maybe the whole universe may disagree with me, but even as a kid I found TESB to be my least liked SW movie. For me, Han and Leia's romance took much time that could have been better used, cloud city was odd and claustrophobic and there were many other things I kind of disliked but for almost every SW fan, TESB is the holy grail that can't be touched and this goes to the other movies as well.

    No matter how much more awesome Darth Maul, Obi Wan and Qui Gon's dual was compared to the Vader vs Ben Kenobi one, no matter how cooler was the Podracer race than the Speeder Bike chase, no matter how much more intense was the Geonosian arena monster battle vs the one between Luke and the Rancor, hardcore OT fans are never going to accept this and woe to whoever claims that there are things in the prequels that were better than things done in the OT. This is sad yet I love both sagas just the same and though I disliked TFA for being a rehash, I hope beyond hope that the next to movies are much better and I'm really hoping that Rogue One blows us all away.
     
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