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Han Solo and his relationship with Ben.

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Sparafucile, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    Since this spans both TFA and TLJ and will likely have some weight in EPIX, I thought this might be a good place to put this.

    We know Kylo does not like Han, but we have precious little information on why. We also know Kylo has a soft spot for his mother.

    My understanding was that Han and Leia were together until Ben turned to Kylo. So I'm moving forward with that as my thought process (if anyone knows differently, please set me straight).

    So I wonder, what could Han have done that deserved such hatred from his son? This obviously doesn't need to be explored in the movie, as I think it would be much easier to explain as an aside in a book.

    I also realize some people might not care about the answer to this question, but as the child of divorced parents, and as a single dad, I find this angle compelling.

    Han is cocky and brash the last time we saw him in RotJ, but many of those traits get rounded out when faced with fatherhood. Did he work too much, leaving for long periods with Chewy so Ben was stuck alone with Leia who was also busy reforming a government? Was Han abusive in some way? Was Han too simplistic or freaked out by having a Force sensitive child? I can see Han potentially having a bit of a short fuse, and different kids react differently to different styles of parenting.

    I'm just left wondering, what did Han do that was so bad that Kylo could kill him in such a personal and up close way. What did Leia do better that he could not kill her in a much less personal way (missiles or blasters to the bridge)? Or did Kylo choose not to kill his mother because of how he feels about killing his father?

    I'd be curious to hear about his thought process, his rationale to those actions. I think it's every parent's worse nightmare to have a horrible relationship with our child, so the answer to those questions I would find compelling.
     
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  2. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    we don't know that.

    Ben even tells Rey he didn't hate his father.
    and everything so far we've seen in the EU has shown Han to be a concerned and loving dad.
    (i would argue it's Leia who seems to be the absent parent).

    my wild unsupported theory is that Han "disappointed" him by not protecting him.
    if everyone (including Ben) was frightened by his powers and Ben just wanted to be a pilot like his dad (which apparently is true?)
    then sending him off to Luke to train was a huge betrayal (in Ben's mind).
    it separated him from his father and left Ben completely vulnerable to Snoke.
    Luke says "Han was Han about it", which means he probably disapproved but capitulated to Leia.
    which is why Ben calls him "weak and foolish" on the bridge.

    Ben's behavior on the bridge is classic abuse-victim's resentment: where were you when i needed you?
    the reason he asks Han to help him on the bridge is because he wants--one last tme--to see if Han will be there for him.
    and Han was.

    and that's why Han's sacrifice is likely to save Ben, ultimately.
    because Ben knows now that he killed the father who would have done anything for him (including die).
    Ben can lie to Snoke all he wants, but this is why he's falling apart at the seams and why he accepts it when Rey calls him a monster.
     
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  3. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    As @FN-3263827 already mentioned, we don't know this. He never said he dislikes Han Solo. But what we can say is that Kylo really hates Luke.

    I think Han's relationship with Leia went downhill after Ben had been sent to Luke's Jedi academy.
    Leia: "I just never should have sent him away. That's when I lost him. That's when I lost you both."

    I don't think Han was a great father, but he tried his best with Ben. They probably had some good and sweet moments together. Ben wanted to become a pilot like his father, so Han must have done something right. They most likely had some trips with the Falcon together etc.

    But in the end Han wasn't really there for him. Same goes for his mother. They had to rebuild the Republic you know. In my headcanon Chewie was the one who was really there for young Ben Solo. Hopefully we get to see a interaction between these two.
     
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  4. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Chewie and Kylo kinda did have an interaction...with his Bowcaster.
     
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  5. Flyboy

    Flyboy Force Attuned

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    I think it's more about what Han didn't do as opposed to what he did do.

    As mentioned above, by all accounts, Han and Ben had a pretty solid relationship. Nothing out of the ordinary and there's nothing that paints the picture of Han being a bad father. In fact, also mentioned above... there's more evidence to support that Han was a far better father than Leia was a mother.

    When Luke says, "Han was Han about it", to me that doesn't mean that he didn't want Ben to learn the Force, I think it's more a case of him not caring enough one way or the other. He, as the only non-Force user in the family probably left the decision up to the Force users, that being Luke and Leia. Not because he didn't care, but probably because he felt it wasn't his decision to make... even as his father. And because Han didn't stick up for his son, Ben felt betrayed.

    If I understand Bloodline correctly (and it's entirely possible I'm not, it's been a while since I read it) Han and Leia's relationship was pretty solid until Ben was sent off with Luke. Shortly after that Han began going off, traveling by himself, "coaching" a racing team... or something like that and that may have only fueled Ben's discontent with his father. Maybe Ben thought, "So he purposely sent me off so he could start enjoying his life again"... because that kind of IS what happens. From the outside it looks like Ben might've been burdening Han so he sent him away and started having fun again... but we know that isn't the intention. When we meet Han in TFA, sure he's pretty similar to the old Han but he's also pretty sheepish in regards to the subject of his family, almost to the point that when Leia arrives on Takodana, he's downright ashamed to talk to her. He knows how everything must've looked from Ben's perspective, how much of an uncaring father he must now look like to him.
     
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  6. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i'm going to offer a slightly different read on the Bloodline stuff.
    Han was definitely off running his legit shipping business and a racetrack where he mentored young pilots.
    i think it's important to point out that while he may have been "having fun", the emphasis is on having fun teaching other kids how to fly.
    if this is what Ben really wanted to do, then the betrayal is that much keener.

    Ben is shipped off to Luke to deal with his "issues" while Han adopts a bunch of surrogate children to train on his own.
    Bloodline repeatedly makes a point of talking about Han's connection to these kids.
    at first it feels like a slap in the face, but underlying that is his own disappointment that he couldn't have had that with Ben. : o (
     
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