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SPOILER Has 'Rogue One' changed 'A New Hope' in a positive or negative way?

Discussion in 'Rogue One' started by SKB, Dec 16, 2016.

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After watching Rogue One, has it affected 'A New Hope' in any positive or negative way?

  1. ANH is better

  2. Made no difference to ANH

  3. ANH is spoiled

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  1. Abishai100

    Abishai100 Rebel Trooper

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    Dystopia

    Here's a mock dialogue about Rogue One qualities between Krishna (Hindu god of negotiation) and Shiva (Hindu god of destruction). I thought I'd post this to offer up some interesting chatter about timeline 'junk-food' (or 'brain-candy'). After all, 'transition-years' during the Jedi-rebellion comprise an important 'face' in the Lucas-verse, since it offers us nice background 'dystopian drama.'

    Can you guess that what I can't get enough of is...Star Wars intrigue/controversy??

    The only Star Wars media that disappoints are the video games, but not the LEGO Star Wars games...


    ====

    KRISHNA: I like how Rogue One addresses that vacuum of time between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope.
    SHIVA: Do you think audiences want a 'taste' of rebels hunting Death Star plans before Luke is introduced?
    KRISHNA: Well, the arch of pro-Jedi rebellions offers a nice canvas/background for Sith ambition folklore.
    SHIVA: I have no problem with the Vader-Luke-Rey progression.
    KRISHNA: Yes, but you need some fodder and chatter-material for non-primary Jedi folklore.
    SHIVA: Why not just watch Clone Wars or read some of the spin-off comics?
    KRISHNA: Rogue One is the only major film/story addressing complementary dominion rebellions.
    SHIVA: Should there be a film just about the Sith?
    KRISHNA: Nah, you need a Jedi challenge to make the Sith yearning for power more digestible.
    SHIVA: Right, otherwise you're just meditating on the purgatory of the Sith.
    KRISHNA: I would however not mind a major film presenting some folklore about the complex Darth Revan.
    SHIVA: I'd be satisfied seeing a developing relationship between Rey and Kylo-Ren.
    KRISHNA: 'Sideshow rebellions' offer us nice vignettes of general Lucas-verse 'values.'
    SHIVA: There's something about Rogue One that comes off as...eerie.
    KRISHNA: That's the *lingering* flavor of the obligation to defy the Sith.
    SHIVA: I'd like to see a spin-off comic exploring Luke meditating in his old age about the rebellion trying to steal the plans to Vader's Death Star.
    KRISHNA: Nevertheless, Rogue One is arguably the *sexiest* Star Wars installment.
    SHIVA: It has a great 'premonition-maturity' look to it (unlike Phantom Menace!).

    ====

    rogueone.jpg

    avatars.jpg
     
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  2. BaranDo91

    BaranDo91 Rebelscum

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    Positively made ANH a lot better. Let me go on the record to state that even as a child, I never really cared that much about ANH. It isn't a bad movie. It is well made, but really as I grew older I found the pacing at some parts a bit rough, some of the lines were bad(ROTJ isn't any better, but the main focus and themes are there) and I am not a fan of Han Solo.

    He's good in ESB, outside of that; never really liked him. I preferred Leia and Luke. Rogue One, while it certainly has its flaws, I find it fits thematically with ANH very well. What ANH did well and I acknowledge was that it was an underdog's tale. That is what SWs is about and what made it successful. The Rebels won by the skin of their teeth against the Death Star.

    Rogue One enhances ANH because it better showcases just how insurmountable the Empire is. How truly deadly the Death Star is as a fear weapon. Because, blowing up planets is scary, but planet surfaces is a lot scarier I argue. We as humans have no comprehension of a planet destroyer. Nuclear bombs, though; yeah.

    The arrogance of the Empire is also displayed in RO, brilliantly by Krennic who is the only guy who is trying to do something yet is stymied every step of the way. As for the characters, they are the types who won't get a medal. They laid down their lives and risked it all for the rebellion and even Luke Skywalker.

    Finally, it made the Death Star plans a relay race. Those scenes where Luke, Han, and Leia are on the Death Star I freeze up. Because, knowing how much effort Jyn and company went through to get them, I wanted to slap them. I also value the takedown more effectively because even with Galen Erso's failsafe, it wasn't guaranteed.

    He couldn't broadcast it but needed to be subtle about it. A bet that comes from me reading Catalyst, but even without the book; it is evident.
     
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  3. BetterBeGood

    BetterBeGood Rebel Trooper

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    i think RO made ANH better because i love seeing R2-D2 with the plans inside him getting snatched up by jawas. It could have gone so wrong after all the rebels' hard work
     
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  4. Wonton

    Wonton Rebel Trooper

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    I laughed more than I should have at this.
     
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  5. Talon Karrde

    Talon Karrde Rebel Official

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    Definately positive.
    As much as I like RotS.. upon re-screening ANH in the mid 2000s I noticed a major perspective change on the entrance of Darth Vader. I saw him no longer as an intimidating mechanical beast but as a sad old man still trying to fight the Clone Wars.
    "You're starting to sound like a separtist!"
    "You're part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor! TAKE HER AWAY!"
    R1 did a great job restoring that level of fear.

    Also, to me, R1 did something I didn't think possible: Transform the OT into a "Duology of Duologies". Instead of the standalone film and it's two sequels operating together as a larger story(modern trilogy framework), we have now two larger stories being told over 4 films: The Death Star Crisis or R1 and ANH, and Luke Vs Vader in ESB and RotJ.
     
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  6. Cole

    Cole Force Sensitive

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    I think its the opposite...A New Hope makes Rogue One a better movie.
     
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  7. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    I think ANH is enhanced by watching Rogue One. By itself, Episode IV is already a great movie; however, having the opening crawl dissected in such a wonderful way created a perfect setting to understand the motivations behind the Rebellion and how it was organised. We see a leader - Mon Mothma - that we didn't meet until two movies later - ROTJ - and the rest of the members of the Rebel Alliance, who hardly had a consensus on how to approach the fight for justice and freedom for the galaxy with the Empire. Some of them wanted to fight; some of them were looking for a more pacifist approach and some others were afraid and almost tried to abandon their quest.

    In this sense, Rogue One shows the black box that the Rebellion was for us for most of ANH. We do not see any other Rebels than the Princess and the Tantive IV crew until we get to the hidden Rebel base. With Rogue One, we can feel the doom over the Rebel Alliance since we know what happened in Scarif: albeit briefly, we met a rag-tag team that got on a suicide quest - daresay we even got emotionally involved with them and though expected, we suffered their deaths - and feel the sense of urgency of that hologram sent to that Jedi Master.

    Some will always find reasons for nitpicking - looking at you, ScreenJunkies! - but I think everyone have a different perspective, and that's OK. Some will complain about the way Darth Vader went through the Rebels like slicing bread with a brand new knife, whereas he was fighting his former master like poking each other in a laughable way. We can retcon and justify as much as we like but again, it is a matter of personal perspective. For me, it worked and it is way more poignant to watch ANH because by the time I get to the Throne Room ending, I cannot help but think of the revenge of a scientist against the Empire and the sacrifice of his daughter to finish what he started, and how a moral-conflicted Rebel spy, an Imperial defector, two former Guardians and a snarky droid - plus a bunch of committed Rebels - followed her through her suicide quest and were victorious.
     
    #67 PrincessLeiaCB3, May 10, 2017
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
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  8. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Rogue One made me see the Vader vs. Obi-Wan duel in ANH differently. I don't think of it as just being awkward and slow anymore, thanks to what Vader did to the Rebel soldiers in the hallway. I now view the ANH fight as, Obi-Wan is distracting Vader so Han, Luke, Leia, and Chewie can escape, while Vader is being cautious after Mustafar and playing a game to see what Obi-Wan will do next.
     
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  9. BaranDo91

    BaranDo91 Rebelscum

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    The one takeaway I always had when justifying that duel(the choreography sucked) was that I always saw it as Vader being unable to use his Force Powers against Kenobi. One aspect I always loved about Legends was how it established how Jedi have strong mental/TK barriers. There is a reason why Jedi cannot just ragdog each other with TK. Unless, they are truly powerful individual, like Yoda, Vader. But in the case of Kenobi, I like to think that in his older years, he'd built up with TK/mental wall as a line of defense.

    That yeah, his speed and agility have taken a massive hit, but he can at the very least stymie a force wielder and make them fight on his terms. And as for Vader, yeah, he wasn't going to be able to do jack against Kenobi. And really, even though Vader is a formidable swordsman, Kenobi isn't some amateur. He is arguably one of the best and his defeat of Anakin represented that. So I can see Vader's hesitation as well. His line about being the master, an almost insecure method to reassert control.
     
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  10. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    I'm somebody who hates retroactive continuity when it comes at the expense of an established character (I should be considered a no-go that supercedes "canon" IMHO).

    Admittedly, even as an OT fan I had always found Leia's willingness to let Han take her to the hidden base to Yavin so he could collect his reward personally to be somewhat irresponsible as she was rather certain that the Death Star was tracing them.
    At least Rogue One retroactively provided her with a reason to do so, based on the rumors of a design flaw that could help to destroy the Death Star.

    On the other hand I didn't like how the RO filmmakers set up the ending of RO (at least going by their statements, fortunately the final onscreen result is somewhat ambiguous).
    The first Vader scenes in ANH - as @Admiral Buzzkill once suggested - are just fantastic as the audience quickly understands that this is a guy who shouldn't be underestimated, because he knows what you're up to before you do...

    This is one aspect where RO retroactively now makes ANH Vader look inept, talking about transmissions (although he saw a data carrier being passed) and failing to mention that he saw Leia's ship leave the battle.
    Instead he resorts to accusations and claims because - in the original context - he couldn't link Princess Leia to the Alliance. All he knew was that transmissions had been made to the Tantive IV but he was unable to prove whether the Tantive IV had actually received these, hence the concerns of his lieutenant about a possible reaction of the Imperial Senate to the illegal seizure of a diplomatic ship and the killing of its crew.

    Thus, IMHO, RO affected ANH both positively and negatively.
     
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  11. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    It was positive to know why Vader was so determined to get those plans.
     
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  12. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

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    Some elements make RO improve ANH: the flaw design in the DS core set up by Galen Erso - Leia's "guts" revealed, when she stands in ANH in front of Vader stating she's a diplomatic, thus she perfectly knows Vader just saw her escape from Scariff - the void Krennic's chair near Tarkin in the DS meeting room...
    ... but on the other hand, alas, several things do the exact opposite: the Ponda Baba/Dr Evazan thing, that creates a completely useless plothole, the "plans were beamed to this ship" affair in ANH vs the hardware device that passes from hand to hand in RO, and above all, a problem already encountered with the Prequel vs the Original: the technological difference (in temrs of filming) between a 1977 ANH and a 2016 RO is just too flagrant.

    This last is - to me - the most striking thing.
    It was the same when passing from RotS to ANH. My feeling is that a nowadays movie has to meet the standard of the older one - and not the other way. RO should have met the technological standard of ANH, but I'm afraid it didn't.
    Most remarkable example: Vader's saber blade... I have troubles connecting the RO Vader who looks at the Tantive escape, and the ANH Vader that faces Kenobi.

    This techological gap is the worst flaw, to me.
     
  13. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    For me, the best part of R1 is that it fills a hole that always bothered me about ANH. Not that DS1 had such a massive weakness, but that the Rebels found it so quickly. I mean: in a couple of hours, using nothing but blueprints, they found a devastating flaw in a space station the size of a small country? Something Imperial engineers hadn’t discovered after years of looking at the real thing?

    Turns out they found it so fast because someone told them where to look. YAHTZEE!!
     
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  14. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    They were beamed to the ship. Where they made hard copies and moved off the ship to the smaller attached ship. It's not wrong what Vader said.
     
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  15. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    You mean aside from being factually incorrect?
     
  16. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    But they were beamed to the ship.
    That's the whole point of the big satellite on Scarif. Then Vader saw them disperse from the other ship. They were a part of the other ship.
     
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  17. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    The transmissions were beamed to the Profundity, not the Tantive docked inside it . . . for some reason. They’re two different ships.
     
  18. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    They were joined. You're nitpicking to nitpick.
     
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  19. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    They were just docked. Plugging one thing into another doesn’t make them one thing. I can’t claim my car gets junk mail because it’s parked in my garage. I guess I could. But I reckon I'd come off as a decent sized idiot . . . well, more so.

    The “several transmissions” Vader was talking about weren’t “beamed” to the Tantive IV. Unless he was trying some Columbo style action on Leia:

    Vader: Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies.
    Leia: No, they were beamed to a different ship – wait, I mean err-
    Vader: Ah HAH!!
    Leia: Damn, you’re one sly bastard, Vader.
    Vader: All too easy.
     
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  20. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    The ship left from Raddus' right? Stop nitpicking.

    For all he knew, the info was beamed to the Tantive IV because THAT'S HOW THE DATA WAS SENT OFF SCARIF
     
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