Has TFA lost some of its luster since coming out on home video?

It's almost like in telling the story of Anakin Skywalker GL forgot about the "little things", like, you know, making him a compelling character. Fixing Padme and Anakin to make them more compelling fixes the prequels, in my opinion. But given we didn't get a compelling Anakin Skywalker, a bigger focus on Palpatine's machinations would be another way to have made them work. Arguably he's what the prequels are about. Certainly in all three movies the Jedi are basically reacting to and dealing with Palpatine's plotting and scheming. Really just some minor changes could have made the prequels great. I don't hate the prequels but I've barely re-watched since their theatrical releases.

Anyway... ESB > ANH > TFA = RoTJ* >> RoTS > TPM > AoTC.
* I haven't figured out which of these I like more yet.

 

I want to say it's more the dialogue .

 

Fixing the dialogue would make it much less painful to watch so we'd be nearly half way towards making them great I'd say. Those anti-cheese edits were pretty good... is anyone aware of an edit that attempted to alter the dialogue to improve it? I know that's not a real fix but I'd be interested to hear it.

I think the poor dialogue is partly a function of Anakin and Padme not being compelling characters. Much easier to give them bad dialogue or for the dialogue to be perceived as bad given that they aren't interesting.

 

If you watch the movies with no sound and just the soundtrack it's much more compelling .

 

TFA remains my third favorite, and when ESB and ANH are the top two, there really shouldn't be much complaining.

The first half of TFA is some of the best filmmaking we've seen in 7 films. While the speed of the editing in the second half bleeds a bit of attention, it still grabs you with Han's death and the lightsaber battle. ROTJ might have some of the more weighty moments, that's only because the work that ESB did for the characters. TFA didn't include LUKE at all, and still holds up as a good SW film - that's pretty impressive when you consider it.

It may have been a lay-up instead of a dunk, but its 2 points nonetheless.

 

I think it has. Tonally, the action comedy style just doesn't seem to fit the OT. The plot seems forced at times, as do the comedy moments. Still a fun movie and a good movie, but it has lost some of the luster I first felt seeing it in theater.

 

It hasn't lost any of it's luster for me... I still don't like it

Although I should point out that maybe it has gained some luster for me personally, as the last time I watched it I was able to tolerate the stuff I didn't like (eg. Jedi Mind Trick with absolutely no prior knowledge) and I probably enjoyed the film the most I ever have.

 

I have to ask you respectfully why that bothers you so much? I equate it to Luke communicating through the force with Leia in ESB after his duel with Vader, as that came out of nowhere in 1980? It made no sense at the time because we didn't know she was his sister or she was a force user (as Lucas didn't even write it as that plot point in 1980.), but I never held it against the movie. My point is that Rey using the Jedi Mind Trick in TFA (and much more of her backstory) will be explained in Episode 8 or 9. Now if many things from TFA about Rey is not explained in Episode 8 & 9, then I can understand fans getting mad, but we should see the story out before jumping to conclusions.

 

I think it will hold up. I love it. Just as with the prequels, not everyone is going to like it. I think the 32 years it took to get a sequel is what has hurt it for some. 32 years is quite a long time for fans to read the EU, form there on ideas of what the sequel would be like and regardless what comes out, it just not gonna live up to expectations for some. The OT came out when I was 7-13. A 7-13 year old usually doesn't wortoo to much about plot or analyzing plot holes and stuff like that as we tend to do as we get old. I loved TFA when it came out and still do. Actually, Im watching it now on Starz Family

 

It still holds up. I think it will be even better after TLJ comes out. It's usually how these things go. It's a fun adventure with old friends and new friends. Are there plot holes? Sure. Do I want five more minutes of explaining the political situation? Sure. Is Kylo a little underwritten? Yup. But its still fun. The first 1/3 is magic. Luke's reveal is impressive. Harrison Ford is energized. The newbies have a blast. And we get some cool aerial fights and a pretty compelling lightsaber battle(s) at the end.

 

For a time, I didn't like TFA, because I felt like the prequels told a stronger story and TFA was basically a remake of ANH. While I think both of those are true, in my opinion, I've forgiven TFA of most of the problems that bugged me for so long. A recent viewing rekindled my admiration for the film. Maybe it's just the hype for TLJ, but I've learned to just enjoy the movie for what it is and not worrying about plot holes and whatnot.

As for if it holds up, I'd say, "Definetly." Of course, some scenes aren't the same as seeing it for the first time in the cinema, but there are still tons of great, now iconic scenes. I currently place it at either at #4 or #5 in my ranking of the 9 films.

 

Well it's that backstory explanation that I'm waiting for. If it gets explained, then fair enough. But as it stands (using that one example) she just does something that only a Jedi can do once he has been trained. She does this without any prior knowledge that Jedi could even do such a thing (as far as the information given to us in TFA goes). Hell, according to TFA she thought Luke was a legend, so based on that I think I can assume she hasn't got a Jedi manual to read while on Jakku . At least Luke was semi trained in the Force when he reached out to Leia. Rey has had Maz tell her to close her eyes and feel the Force - her entire Force training. So with the information we have been given by the film so far, comparing Rey in TFA to Luke in ESB is a bit like apples to oranges.

But that was only one example of what I dislike about that film.

 

Luke blew up the Death Star using only his trust on the Force when he had practically zero training. I gather she did the same.

 

Well, not quite, Ben was talking to him from beyond the grave and instructed him to do so. Who told her about the Jedi Mind Trick? Like I said before, apples and oranges.

 

But my point is why does Luke, Anakin, or Rey's training (or lack there of) have to be the same? Anakin trained for 10 years with Obiwan between TPM & AOTC, while Luke trained with Yoda for a few days (weeks) on Dagobah, and they are both POWERFUL with the force by the 3rd movies in their respective trilogies. So many could question why Luke became that powerful, that quick despite a much lesser training time (or even mentor) then Anakin?

The point is that everyone is different, and my hunch is Rey is REALLY the chosen one and that is why she was able to do what she did in TFA. I have been playing Golf for 20 years and took a friend out for his first time a few years ago to play. He is a much better athlete then me as he picked up the sport a lot easier then I did on his first time because he is naturally gifted with hand eye coordination. The guy never played before and I was amazed at how well he was playing that day! Again, I think there is much more to be explained about Rey in Episode 8 & 9 (and if there isn't then fans have a right to be mad), but just because Anakin did things one way, Luke did things another way, doesn't mean that Rey can't do things her way.[/QUOTE]

 

Respectfully, but you're glossing over my point. I am not comparing Rey to anyone else. People trying to disprove my point keep comparing.
EDIT addition: Your golf analogy is good, but doesn't really fit. If you had invited your friend to play golf, and he turned round and said I don't even know what golf is, but let's play. Then he went and played the course without any prior knowledge of golf. That would be a fitting analogy

My point on that is: Who told her about a Jedi Mind Trick? How did she even know that a mind trick was possiblle? Without some sort of knowledge of a Jedi Mind Trick why would she even try it? Three frickin' times !!! Remember, she thought Luke was a legend, and she is not shown to have ANY knowledge of what the Jedi did (especially a specific skill like the one we're discussing). That is my point. That is why I dislike it. Sloppy, crappy, writing, and as we now know it's not even planned out... RJ has to fix it. Let's hope he does.

 

I think that this whole "TLJ will make TFA better" thing is flawed. ANH didn't depend on ESB to make it a good movie three years later. It was great from the get go. There was all the explaining needed, right there in the movie. Although TFA did a fair amount of explaining too (Han telling about Luke, vague. Leia talking about Ben/Snoke, also vague, but thats ok I don't mind vague), there was this constant, wink-wink "Rey is special, but I'm not telling you why!" thing going on the whole movie. Very JJ. "Me too. Big secret." "What girl?!" "Who's the girl?" along with her expert piloting, ability to fix thing, proficiency with a lightsaber, and using the Force...We we're given a ton of clues...but with no answer. Now that's probably a great marketing technique, but maybe not such a good story telling technique. BUT this is at least one way that TFA differs from ANH, where Obi just tells Luke right off "you're the son of a Jedi, and you should learn the Force." So at least there's that. So as a stand alone movie...story-wise, it's not even close to most of the other movies, but as "Part 1 of 3", it fairs a lot better. The only problem is having to wait years inbetween parts...That's why I prefer a complete story in each movie.

PS. Here's another comparison to the OT (sorry!). Vader's reveal to Luke came out of NOWHERE. Nobody was interested in where Luke came from, I think that's why the reveal hit so hard, nobody was expecting a reveal...Now with Rey, everyone is waiting for the reveal. But that can't be helped. We live in a post-ESB world where we're always looking for M. Night around every corner. But they are intentionally baiting us with "There's something about Rey...but you'll have to watch the next movie to find out." Either way, it's hard to imagine that whatever the reveal is, that it will be a "shocker", we already know that its coming, unlike ESB.

 

ANH didn't KNOW it was going to be a world wide phenomenon and garner a sequel. It was made to be a stand alone film. TFA is a start to a trilogy so there's very little answered or closed in it. Erroneous to compare them in this regard.
It's like comparing HACKSAW RIDGE with one episode of BAND OF BROTHERS. Of course the story is more complete in something finite.

Your issue seems to be that TFA isn't a stand alone film.

 

I had wondered the same thing at first. But my rationale for it is IF she had heard of Luke, even though she thought he was a legend, and sure people still speak of the Jedi and the amazing things they could do. As with most things like that, I would think some of the rumors to be true and some blown out of proportion. But either way, it is possible for Rey to have heard stories of what they could do.

 

It's not a stand alone, it's part of a series. I get it...but I think it should be able to stand on its own as a solid self-contained movie, and not depend on the next movie to explain nearly everything about it. But I think that's just J.J.'s style. He's a lot better at presenting the questions than giving the answer's.
I think my main issue is that there's no good resolutions to the stories in the moive. The one that hits closest is probably Finn deciding to be heroic...but then again Finn's character is all over the place. I think he might have multiple personality disorder. And then maybe Kylo killing Han...although we really don't know why he did it...so no real resolution. The plots that were resolved were more like side quests. We've got to find Luke! Oh no! A starkiller, let kill that instead! Ok now we'll find Luke...for what exactly? In ANH they spent the whole movie trying to get Artoo to Yavin...so they could take out the Death Star. In Empire Vader spent the whole movie trying to get to Luke...so he could reveal his heritage and try on convert him. Jedi is a bit more "episodey" but there is a super awesome payoff at the end. In TFA they spend the movie trying to find Luke...for what? They just find him...which was actually kindof a cool moment, but as a whole I just felt like the movie was a giant question mark with no answer.