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Has your TLJ opinion changed dramatically over time?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by darth sputnik, Mar 28, 2018.

  1. cassidy

    cassidy Rebel Official

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    I said "to me." The reason these complaints are so common is because a lot of people really don't like this film. It's my opinion, dude.

    Oh, and it looks like people agree with me. The statement about someone from this forum being able to make a better film was semi-sarcastic, I was expressing my frustration and disappointment, lighten up.
     
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  2. animarcity

    animarcity Rebelscum

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    Rey's lesson on the cliff, the Falthier chase (especially the close ups of Finn and Rose) and the Supremacy hangar (everything from the execution scene to the Finn/Phasma fight) come to mind.
    Overall the movie does look good but I think it gets somewhat overblown praise compared to the also good looking TFA and R1. I guess being very active on film twitter, constantly talking about old classic movies or retweeting his DP's obtuse technical blog posts about cinematography give RJ a certain "street cred" among film fans and critics.
     
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  3. StoneRiver

    StoneRiver Rebel General

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    No, no it hasn't. Maybe it will when I have it in my collection. But based on my experience with the film so far I think it's unlikely.

    But then again, always in motion the future is.
     
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  4. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    But the ST was never advertised by Disney as the further adventures of Luke, Leia and Han. The first TFA teaser only showed the new characters so they were upfront with the fanbase from day one.

    The time for the continuing adventures of Luke, Leia and Han were the late 80’s/90’s and that just never happened. I can’t argue about your opinion of the movie because we all have one. But if you were expecting Luke to be the main star of TLJ, then you were expecting something that was never going to happen. The ST is about Rey & Kylo Ren. I totally get if that doesn’t interest you as much as Luke, Leia and Han, but that was marketed that way with the first Teaser in Nov 2014.
     
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  5. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    The Last Jedi looks better than the two movies you mentioned. This is a very odd criticism, but when partnered with the bizarre rant about Rian Johnson's tweets it starts to makes sense. I think you'll really like the "why I hated the movie" thread.
    It's really odd. It's like if episodes 1,2.3 were made first people would have complained that A New Hope was a disaster. "They killed Obi-Wan!"
     
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  6. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    For anyone who is shocked that Luke, Han and eventually Leia would die in the ST are forgetting the OT and PT narrative. Star Wars was Game of Thrones before Game of Thrones as no character is safe.

    Every major character from the PT died in the PT or OT, why would anyone be surprised that the same narrative wouldn’t happen in the ST?
     
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  7. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    That makes too much sense! System overload!!!
     
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  8. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    Bad comparison. Anakin Skywalker is the main character from the Prequel Trilogy. Yes he does die in the OT, but he has a heckuva lot more than just a 1-movie appearance. He doesn't get shoved to the side and treated like his very existence is a nuisance to be disposed of. The narratives are not similar.
     
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  9. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    For a supporting character in this trilogy Luke received an outstanding send off. Plus, with the whole force ghost thing it makes sense that they did it in this film. Planning out Luke dying in IX would have distracted from Kylo/Rey's story which is the entire point of this trilogy. Luke can now operate as a force ghost.

    It would be kind of cool if these force ghosts could be what helps the Jedi Order rebuild. That the ghosts were the will of the force. Preparing to rebuild the Jedi Order after the Sith wiped it out.
     
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  10. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    I've appreciated the Canto Bight sequence knowing that Rose and DJ are supposed to represent Finn's angle and devil of the place.
     
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  11. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    My opinion has changed - maybe not "dramatically".
    Like some commentators I found it hard to pin down a verdict on the film after my first viewing.
    I had some likes and dislikes and remember thinking it was a visually stunning SW ride but I left the cinema feeling a bit confused and overwhelmed.
    Subsequent viewings have mellowed my dislikes and deepened my likes.

    I think there's a few specific reasons why I personally find TLJ so appealing.
    • I went dark on info until I saw the movie unlike TFA. This was a little self-experiment in how trailers, info, and potential spoilers may affect my viewing. It happened to coincide with a film-maker specifically riffing on subverting expectations so it was effective. (It threw me a little!)
    • I relate to the Luke character. I too am older and grizzlier. I've done the question fundamental beliefs trip, the self-exile, and often lurk between skepticism and cynicism. Luke coming out of his dark cocoon looking like a butterfly paints a beautiful and optimistic picture.
    • I'm big on empathy and look for reasons to understand the other. I think this coincided with Rian hoping to press these buttons in his story.
    • I'm getting more sentimental with age and guess I'm now a sucker for character drama. I loved OT Luke as a kid and the opera moments in TLJ really tug my heart strings!
    noooo.gif

    please.gif

    dinero crying over puppies.gif
    I think you're on the money with the dangers but there's positives too.
    I've learned a thing or two from dwelling in threads where people see things differently.
    I've also learned to identify the hyperbolic and irrational posters who's opinions aren't worth attending!
    FWIW take some of the "screenshots" posted here with a grain of salt.
    I saw some on a thread with Finn and Rose looking ridiculously terrible on the back of a jumping fathier.
    I painstakingly worked my way through each shot in the scene to check the quality but none like it existed.
    To this day I'm not sure where it came from but could find no shot like it in the final cut!

    edit: pics
     
    #91 Moral Hazard, Apr 1, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
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  12. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Great stuff.... you're easily one of the best users in this forum about keeping a level head and not getting in the weeds. It's a very admirable quality and it's not easy to do. Like you I like reading people with different ideas and it's getting easier to weed out those who aren't interested in discussing things in a rational way.

    As far as Canto Bight is concerned I wonder how that chase plays for younger audiences. It seems like something I would have enjoy more when I was a kid.
     
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  13. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    That's kind of you to say but there's also a reason most of my posts contain a "last edited..." at the bottom.
    Every now and again "edited:grammar" may also include "uh oh, better delete or rephrase that quickly"! :D
    I mainly come here for the discussion and it would be boring to discuss with like minds all the time. :rolleyes:
    But that's just me and I can understand others coming here to find companionship with like minds - particularly if they have minority views or feel like their views are oppressed!
     
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  14. Finn is a Jedi

    Finn is a Jedi Rebel Official

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    I wish I could say that the movie has grown on me. I truly do but I simply can't. I still believe TLJ is the worst Star Wars movie yet.

    My rankings are:
    1. Empire Strikes Back
    2. A New Hope
    3. Revenge of the Sith
    4. Return of the Jedi
    5. Rogue One
    6. Force Awakens
    7. Phantom Menace
    8. Attack of the Clones
    9. The Last Jedi
     
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  15. Dra---

    Dra--- Rebel General

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    I've watched it over ten times (all for free). It's flaws became increasingly painful on every viewing. Even the scenes I originally thought were good eventually unraveled for one reason or another: usually poor logic or tone. For example, I enjoyed the fight with the Praetorian Guard on the first handful of views for its pure spectacle, but then I began to wonder why Kylo wasn't using the Force and how Rey was able to fight these trained killers as well, or better, than him.

    Someone mentioned above they like character drama/development in films, in regard to Luke. There was no character development here. Character development presupposes that the writers develop actually existing qualities in characters. Luke was never someone who would allow evil to grow while he moped and gave up, so this quality is just an extrinsic element pinned onto the character, not something intrinsic begging for development.

    Also, authentic development doesn't copy a previous arc. What Rian did here was simply copy Luke's fear arc from ESB. He overcame this problem in ESB and ROTJ, and was ready to move on to new development. The intrinsic quality that should have been developed in the ST is Luke's compassion and pacifism. That could have been an interesting and organic story, and led to the fall of the Jedi in a logical and emotional way. For instance, Luke could have built a Jedi Order that was more defensive and spiritual than what we've seen before, and this could explain why the First Order rose and Kylo rebelled -- what seemed like a strength at the end of ROTJ would now be seen as a flaw that Luke would have to overcome.

    But instead The Last Jedi just recycles cliches (depressed old hero) and tries to pawn off extrinsic (false) character qualities because Johnson couldn't find anything intrinsic to develop from ROTJ Luke.

    Not only does the film not grow better on new viewings, it's clear that LFL destroyed the Skywalker Saga. I had wanted, for example, an animated series that would fill the gap between E6 and E7, but now I have no interest in watching a story about Luke, Han, or Leia because we know everything blew up in their faces. That story could have been interesting if there had been compelling reasons for their failure, but instead it's just the old cliche Luke (in a single moment!) and Kylo were seduced by the darkside.

    I really wish I could still have interest in the franchise, but it's clear it's being run as a business first and that caretaking and curating the SW story is not a priority.

    Lack of care for the story though seems not to matter because plenty of fans don't care either. As long as they have some humor and believable spectacle, the story doesn't matter. It's a shame because this could have been developed into a great mythology.
     
    #95 Dra---, Apr 1, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
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  16. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    What up @Dra--- ?
    If you feel strongly enough to rate someone as "clouded" it's charitable to quote the specifics verbatim and share why.
    Maybe I was unclear about my opinion somewhere. I'm all ears...
     
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  17. Dra---

    Dra--- Rebel General

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    First, I'm not charitable to people who have no idea what they're talking about. Second if you read my post above, you'll see why your thinking is cloudy. Your remark on TLJ as character drama is amusing.
     
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  18. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    What remark?
    I think you've misread somebody's post as I didn't mention anything about "character development" or "character drama".

    This is kinda why quoting people verbatim is important. (You highlight their words and click on "quote".)
     
    #98 Moral Hazard, Apr 1, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
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  19. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    My opinion about this film has radically changed.

    The film is masterpice, it is now a solid fact for me, it is going well on its path of acheiving status in a rank of Empire Strikes Back.For this however, we need to await episode IX.

    I am claiming this as an informed observer, not telling this to be fancy because mainstram critics say so( many of whom btw, did not not understand most important things about the real agenda of the film, and trilogy in my eyes).

    Hardcore SF fans who felt they" lost their childhood" I encourage to read my findings (which is the reason I am in here, I back to lessen the burdeon, and will sprout from time to time for those who whish it, without intention, or considering recepients firm beliefs of risk aither , for any public spoils of larger scales).

    This film, and whole trilogy is not just about Darkness, and Light, it is about something much Bigger than anyone anticipates.

    [​IMG]
     
    #99 McDiarmid, Apr 1, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
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  20. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

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    There is going to be an animation show that is going to set between 6 and 7. It's the next show that Filoni is working on. They couldn't show it before Episode 7 or 8 came out because it would of spoiled plot points for those 2 movies.
     
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