Help me love RotS :)

FWIW, the Soule Vader comics are all already compiled in a collection of four trades.

Might be worth checking out!

 

The ROTS novel is very dear to me... I helped spoil it from Mace in the Chancellor's Office to the end. (bc fake spoilers were pissing me off, so I went and napalmed the 3SA forum) I know that the entire book is closer to the original script than the movie, regardless of what the Jedi will tell you. AoTC is the most disappointing of the first 6 movies and the novel can't really help it.... Lucas made choices that seem very dumb to me... so I rarely think about that film. TPM novel - I read that in a little more than one day when it came out - so yeah, I really liked it.

For further PT-Luv-Cultivation I suggest:
https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet....emory-a-spoiler-script-novel-discussion.9886/

I concur. Those books enhance the experience... even when you loathe 93.4% of the new content in one of them.

 

Just another few things to add.



- ROTS, through its runtime, gives a pretty good sense of scale to the Clone Wars conflict- and not to criticize other SW films, but that's something that's often lacking.

Obviously we see Obi Wan on Utapau and Yoda deployed to Kashyyyk, but we also see a significant amount more battles with the Jedi during Order 66, as well as subtle reference to even more theatres of war (like Obi Wan mentioning conflicts at Boz Pity and Saleucami). And of course, over the film's run we see the Jedi council increasingly comprised of holograms, as more Jedi Masters are deployed away (unknowingly feeding further into Palpatine's plan to divide and conquer). Which, leads into...





- A more nuanced take on the Jedi. ROTS's portrayal of the Jedi is something that I've only recently understood as an adult. As a kid, it's easy to see Palpatine as the bad guy and the Jedi as valiant but tragic heroes. But TROS, extending from Windu's attack on Geonosis in AOTC (and perhaps even as far as TPM), subtlety shows how that's not really the case.

The Jedi have lost their way.

They've become intricately tied to the carnage of the Clone Wars, acting more as warriors and generals than guardians. Even note the otherwise strange "there are heroes on both sides" line in the opening crawl. This isn't necessarily some absolute good vs absolute bad conflict like the Galactic Civil War in the OT. The Seperatists have some rather valid concerns with the Republic (expanded on in The Clone Wars), and it's arguably pretty imperialist of the Republic to prevent their secession. In truth, both sides have been manipulated into a conflict where they (including the Jedi) have lost by simply participating.

Then there's all this talk of Chosen Ones, midichlorians, etc. This might again be giving George a bit too much credit, but it seems like the Jedi have really put far too much stock into making the Force some quantifiable thing that they could dominate, rather than a mystical tie that binds the universe. In fact, I think Windu's comment about their powers becoming "diminished" could show that this fall is happening (though it may also be a retcon to the fact that the OT force users seemed far less anime). Then of course even Luke mentions the Jedi being at the height of their hubris in TLJ.

 

Great Point!

 

The instant Luke said that, I was reminded of all the Jedi who sat in the same office as Darth Sidous and were blind to his true nature.

It's ironic. I love that scene but not the whole movie. And that is what makes all of THIS, fun.

 

What's not to love in that opening space battle? ARC-170 engine noise alone is the definition of epicness

 

@Lock_S_Foils I think I know what you mean!

These are going on our watchlist for the weekend, @NinjaRen ?

 

Yes Ma'am!

Definitely one of the greatest opening in the Star Wars saga IMO.

 

Username checks out.


Gotta hand it to Lucas.... when TPM dropped, I was giddy the instant I heard the engines on Qui Gon's transport.


And then they started talking....

 

@Angelman
Two easy ways.

1) Watch ROTS and appreciate its parallels in TFA (e.g. Anakin/Obi fight vs Kylo/Rey fight) and TROS (Padme/Anakin choke-out love scene vs Rey/Kylo save life love scene, and Rey/Kylo old death star saber fight vs Anakin/Obi fight)...there's more than that, but stuff like that...the Padme/Anakin vs Rey/Kylo is really gorgeous. TROS made ROTS so much more beautiful for me.
I was in the same position as yourself before TROS, but I've watched ROTS since TROS came out and ROTS suddenly pops in a different way - it's like TROS recontextualized it and even though the elements are still as problematic as they were before, the value of them has gone up in their poetry so it's easier to look past the faults because there's a value I appreciate more.

2) As always, there's the technical side. Lucas, for all of his faults, is always a cinematic genius. You've seen my recent posts on Lucas' early works and where his mind is coming from on the technical side. When you watch ROTS with that in mind, what the camera is doing, and how the edit is working visually and in terms of tone ... it's really impressive.
Something really interesting; turn on an audio language you can't understand without captioning (and don't turn captioning on) and give it a watch. You'll see the film in a new way because you'll be more focused on the visual story telling. It's amazing how much of the story you fully understand without needing the dialogue.

Also, if you haven't, watch the ROTS making of documentary material on the disc. You get some understanding of where Lucas was coming from, and rewatching after that is interesting.
If you don't have the disc...

Cheers,
Jayson

 

I watch the PT (ROTS as you are asking) in the macro context and more as a setup to the OT/ST. I’m not a fan of the Anakin/Padme story so I focus on the big picture stuff to enjoy the PT. The Palpatine arc is great as he ascends to power right under everyone’s nose. That is why I didn’t have a problem with his return in TROS as now I watch the PT with Rey (his granddaughter) in mind. I enjoy the political stuff too (I know it’s not a popular opinion), but it opens up the galaxy and gives the OT/ST a different context. The Jedi Council, The Kamino Clones, Order 66, Yoda/Kenobi going in isolation and everything that we just don’t see in the OT/ST make the PT worth it.

I know you were specific about ROTS, but I don’t see the PT in specific movies like I do with the OT/ST, they are truly one trilogy narrative.

 

The origins of the sexiest man alive.

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William Shakespeare Star Wars. Nice. Now, Regency Star Wars. I can dig that.

https://therealmcgee.tumblr.com/tagged/sw-regency-au

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The space battle does following:

• Shows the friendly and competitive relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan, thus adding weight to later events
• Sets the tone for the rest of the film

I get this and realistically, and the darkness of Anakin should have been expanded upon. For example, Palpatine could groom him for a position of power, educate him in politics and he could work as a fixer. Or Anakin could secretly be sent to perform tasks that the Jedi do not know about and specialise in psi-ops: the use of fear and intimidation that his incarnation Vader would later exemplify.

However, it is not the fall of Anakin that is the main focus of the series but the shift in political rhetoric. The shift from optimism to paranoia, reactionary hawkism and eventual tyranny.

Horrendous? That was one of my favourite parts and gave me a real sense of vertigo. However, on reflection I would have liked to see some physical props and set creation used alongside this.

I am guessing George Lucas was heavily inspired by ballet and opera when he and his creative teams came up with this. From a theatrical standpoint, it makes sense but from a practical one, yeah.

Real duels with bladed weapons were fast, fuelled by emotion, chaotic and often injurious as the example below illustrates.

On the morning of Saturday 15 November 1712, two men met in Hyde Park, London, to fight a duel. That they should meet in such a place for such a purpose was not unusual. No one in English society was perturbed by the increase in duelling during the latter part of the seventeenth century and the early years of the eighteenth. But everyone was shocked by the brutality of the fight between Charles, Lord Mohun, and James, Duke of Hamilton, that morning in 1712 and especially by its outcome. The duel led to a change in English law. Contrary to common belief that duels were fought honourably and fairly, the duel between Mohun and Hamilton demonstrated just how false such notions were.

The cause of the quarrel between the two men is uncertain but according to an account written in 1735, Mohun’s second, General Macartney, inflamed the dispute and fomented the duel to avoid a long and expensive law suit between the two protagonists. While there is no doubt that Hamilton was keen to fight, Mohun was far less enthusiastic. Once at Hyde Park, Mohun would have dismissed the seconds as he believed them unnecessary but Hamilton would have none of it stating ‘Mr Macartney should have a share of the dance’. Macartney and the Duke had an acrimonious history.

Armed with smallswords, the two principals then fell upon each other without regard for the niceties.

All having drawn, immediately the two Principals made such violent and desperate Passes, or rather Stabs, that they soon fell down mortally wounded, and the Lord Mohun grappling with the Duke, and shortning [sic] his Sword, gave him that Wound on the fleshy Part of the Shoulder which reach’d his Breast, and was said to have been given him by Macartney after he fell.

Other accounts indicated that neither man bothered to parry and riposte and simply stabbed at each other, ‘neglecting all the rules of the art [and] seemed to run upon one another’. The fight was savage. The Duke was stabbed twice in the right leg, once in the arm, and received another serious injury in his upper right chest. Mohun received a severe wound in the groin and a wound in one arm but the most serious injury was in his chest, caused by a thrust in which the blade passed right through him up to the hilt. Mohun struck a fatal wound ‘while the Duke was over him’ having shortened his sword. The blade went through the Duke’s ‘shoulder to his heart’. The sword was shortened because the blade broke. Both men had wounds to their left hands. From the autopsies, it was clear that the first wound suffered by each man was the fatal injury.

The coroner’s report recorded that ‘Dr. Ronjat, Sergeant Surgeon to his late Majesty [William III] was sent for’ and on arriving at the Duke’s house at eight the next morning, he discovered

his Grace dead upon the bed in his cloathes, which he presently cut off, and upon searching the body carefully, observed that the [radial] artery of the right arm was cut in two, which he judged to be the immediate occasion of his death: He found likewise another wound on the left side of his breast, three inches above the nipple, two inches broad, running obliquely from the left to the right, and above eight inches deep; besides those a third wound in the right leg, about three inches broad, running from the outside of the shin bone obliquely under the calf.

Dr Ronjat did not examine Lord Mohun’s body. That task fell to Mr la Fage who on searching the body

found three wounds, one on the right side, penetrating obliquely the whole body, and coming out on the left above his hip; another very large one in the right groin, cutting the great [femoral] artery, which he took to be the principal cause of his death; and … had in addition three fingers of his left hand almost cut off.

Blood loss from a severed femoral artery can lead to unconsciousness in 30 seconds and death in 3 minutes, depending on how the artery is cut. A clean diagonal cut, as Mohun’s appears to have been, would have led to rapid death. Similarly, Hamilton’s severed radial artery was cut diagonally so that it could not close up by natural sphincteral action and he would have rapidly bled to death.

The fight took less than 2 minutes.

Source: https://thebooktrap.weebly.com/anthonys-blog/duelling-with-swords-the-reality

Yeah, it's not great. But hey, Natalie Portman has great costume designs.