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How and why does Kylo worship Vader

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Darth Spocktor, Dec 20, 2015.

  1. Darth Spocktor

    Darth Spocktor Rebelscum

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    I'm very curious about Ben's fascination with Darth Vader. Why is he interested in Vader, instead of just Snoke or Palpatine?

    To me the most obvious reason is that Vader was his grandfather, but I feel that there could be something else. It's been said that Snoke converted Ben; perhaps Vader was some kind of lure.

    And also, when Ben talked to Vader's remaints, he says something like 'Show me again the power of the dark side'. What was this power? Was this some sort of illusion caused by Snoke?
     
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  2. DarthBinks

    DarthBinks Rebel Commander

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    Snoke is interested in Kylo/Ben because of his power, which he inherited from Vader. Kylo/Ben sees his connection to Vader as a means to entitled greatness, but views his father as "weak and foolish" because he contradicts what Snoke has told him.

    My guess is that when Kylo/Ben meditates in the Force he communes with the Dark Side and mistakes this for Vader's presence.

    Apparently the First Order teaches that Luke, Han, Leia, etc are villains who subverted the truth about the Rebellion and Vader. In appealing to Kylo/Ben's lust for power, Snoke has conflicted him about what is true. The novelization suggests that Kylo believes the Empire failed due to sentiment--- sentiment in that Vader refused to kill his son.
     
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  3. Darth Spocktor

    Darth Spocktor Rebelscum

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    The way that Kylo/Ben talked to Vader was like a plea. It was like a religious person doubting their belief in God, asking for a miracle to re-affirm their faith in Him. I think perhaps Ben has witnessed some sort of sinister miracle or vision - this helped Snoke to persuade him to join the dark side.
     
    #3 Darth Spocktor, Dec 20, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2015
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  4. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I worship my grandfather with only his head so why shouldn't Kylo?
     
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  5. Aquila

    Aquila Rebelscum

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    As someone told earlier - we know that Vader redeemed himself at the end, Kylo doesn't necessarily know this too. He may consider him a powerful dark side master. It all depends not on who Darth Vader/Anakin really was, but what Snoke told him. But I still wonder why Anakin never appeared to Kylo as force ghost and set things straight. Maybe because that would ruin the plotline ;)
     
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  6. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    It's because Kylo's mind separates Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader as deprecate entities so this disassociation traumatized his force abilities to the point that he can't physically "feel" a force ghost but can, instead, he can "feel" their presences through the force :).
     
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  7. Darth Spocktor

    Darth Spocktor Rebelscum

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    Kylo says he feels the call of the light. Perhaps this is a Force ghost, one that he chooses to ignore.
     
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  8. massquabbel

    massquabbel Rebel Trooper

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    This is something which was quite easy to understand for me, without further explanation. I think the OP did understand it too, just it isn't enough of an explanation to him. In this case i would defend how it was done in the movie.
    I think it is clear that Kylo has some problems with himself, which often occurs in real life while growing up, you feel lost etc.
    He feels home, he relates to Vader the feeling of being at home. With all his powers Vader understands, he thinks. Perhaps Han and how he saw the thing with the force was a problem for Kylo back in the days. Vader is just the good friend who understands you(like a grandfather)for me it doesn't even matter what Kylo thinks he needs to end in regard to what Vader might have started.
     
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  9. Aquila

    Aquila Rebelscum

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    A real visible force ghost of Anakin telling few times a day "Grandson! What are you doing!? This is evil! Stop it at once and report to your mother! Darth Vader was foolish and his weakness and stupidity caused extreme suffering to the whole galaxy!" would be quite hard to ignore.
     
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  10. DarthBinks

    DarthBinks Rebel Commander

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    There were rumors recently that Hayden Christensen may appear in Episode VIII. Perhaps Snoke is suppressing Kylo's ability to see Anakin's Force ghost presence?
     
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  11. Darth Spocktor

    Darth Spocktor Rebelscum

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    I doubt it. Disney and Lucasfilm seem to be generally ignoring the prequels and there would probably be backlash.

    Although if he did return, I hope it would show that Hayden can do a much better job with a good script. I feel sorry for the guy and his career (especially since it was Lucas who specifically told him to act that way in II and III)

    Personally I'd prefer to see a ghost of Yoda or maybe even Obi-Wan.
     
  12. Kraven

    Kraven Rebel Trooper

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    IMO, Ben felt betrayed by his parents because they never told him Anakin/Vader was his grandfather.

    Snoke used this little known knowledge of the Skywalker heritage to seduce/brain wash Ben and convientely left out that Vader sacrificed himself for Luke (but its very plausible that Snoke wasnt aware of this fact either)

    It seems that the galaxy isnt aware of the Skywalker lineage because if they did...Ben and Rey would also be on the FO's hit list alongside Luke as potential threats.
    Also, Leia wouldnt be leading the resistance if people knew as there would be a fear she might follow in her father's footsteps.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2015 ---
    As force ghosts, Anakin would have more reason to contact his own grandchildren rather than non-relatives Yoda and Obiwan.
     
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  13. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    Ben Kenobi to Luke in ROJ: "Yoda will always be with you". ;-)

    The one thing that puzzles me to no end: Does Kylo really not know that the lightsaber the others use is the lightsaber of Darth Vader?!?
     
  14. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    Or maybe mommy never told him how he tortured her, destroyed her home planet, tortured and froze in carbonite his dad and cut his uncle's hand. You know, the kind of family stories you have to tell your children.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2015 ---
    That's an interesting point, though: would the knowledge of Luke and Leia being related to Vader be extended on the aftermath of ROTJ? I guess that would be a sensible fear of having Vader's daughter leading the Resistance with a potential to turn over the Dark side (though personally I reckon she would be even less prone to do so than Luke.) It's going to be interesting to see how they handle this on the new-canon after-ROTJ. So far, we only know Luke, Leia and Han knew by the end of ROTJ. In the Legends, it seemed it was a more spread knowledge (even remember how the Noghri used to call Leia Lady Vader?) but let's see.
     
  15. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    Kylo Ren is delusional. He fails to understand that the person known as Darth Vader was redeemed and saved by "Uncle Luke", and doing so turned Darth Vader to the Light Side, effectively "killing" Darth Vader and becoming Anakin Skywalker once again. The Chosen One then fulfilled the Prophecy by defeating the Sith and restoring balance to the Force. Anakin then croaks, becomes a blue ghost meaning Anakin Skywalker is now an eternal Light Side user. No matter how much Kylo Ren worships the burnt twisted helmet of Darth Vader, it is only a discarded remnant of clothing of a person who cannot exist again.

    Kylo Renn should go on the 'Jeremy Kyle Show' to discuss his anger management issues too. ;)
     
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  16. Crab Buttdigger

    Crab Buttdigger Rebel Trooper

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    He said "That weapon is mine", so yeah. I'm sure he knows.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2015 ---
    Maybe Anakin is still no perfect angel. Maybe his force ghost is still conflicted between right and wrong. Maybe he wants Snoke and the First Order to be destroyed, but feels that Kylo can do it within the First Order, similar to Vader killing Palpatine. Maybe he is misleading Kylo down this path, in order to destroy the dark side.
     
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  17. Kraven

    Kraven Rebel Trooper

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    Kinda hard to ignore Anakin Skywalker because the entire saga revolved around him and his legacy.....
     
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  18. Snailmaster

    Snailmaster Clone Commander

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    For some reason Kylo seems desasperate to gain power through the Dark side.. Desesperate enough to kill his own father.. Maybe even scared to not succed.. Torn between Light and Dark.. Maybe he saw a glimpse in the future he wants to avoid? Here is my theory: Luke went close to kill his own father himself.. Not because Vader was the bad guy, but because Vader threatened to use his... Sister! What if Rey was Ben's little sister he loved so much that he Tried to protect her from a grimm (dark) future? Remember That Kylo seems quite good with mind reading.. What if he wiped Lea/Han/Rey memories ? See the drama?
     
  19. Blue Milk Hoojib

    Blue Milk Hoojib Rebel Commander

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    I wonder if Ben was told the whole story of how Vader's life ended, that he came back to the light side as Anakin before dying? If Luke was teaching Ben, then I would think the truth would have come out?
     
  20. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    At first the scene where he orders the stormtroopers to kill everyone in Lor San Tekka's camp didn't make sense to me, but then I understood:

    The guy wants to build his own myth and having eyewitnesses that saw how he killed an unarmed older man wouldn't exactly be the stuff that helps building this myth.

    Wouldn't be too surprised if all the stormtroopers present will eventually be assigned to suicide missions...
     
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