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SPECULATION How can J.J. make this a satisfying trilogy for the majority of fans?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Grand Admiral Kraum, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    I am still on the fence with The Last Jedi. I like some parts, I dislike some other parts.. and there are a large portion of fans who were not satisfied by it. It currently sits at 49% on Rotten Tomatoes and IMDb is full of average reviews. The Force Awakens was in the top 250 top rated films for a good month following it's release. One month on, TLJ only has a score of 7.5.

    One major topic for those who dislike the film.. is the way it "damaged" the trajectory laid out by J.J. Abrams in episode 7. Mainly by killing Snoke, not giving Rey's parentage a satisfying answer.. and The Knights of Ren are nowhere to be seen.

    In the eyes of a portion of passionate fans, it ignored some of TFA's big questions and threw the ship off course.

    And for some of those fans, they've given up on this trilogy altogether.. it can't be fixed. But I think it can. I think it's possible for J.J. to win back many of the fans who loved the original trilogy, episode 7 and weren't satisfied with The Last Jedi.

    My ideas:

    1. Throw out the "Rey's parents are junkers" thing, make her a Skywalker or Kenobi. There needs to be some kind of genetic explanation for her abilities.. and why she heard Obi Wan in the flashback.
    2. Make Kylo back into the intimidating villain he was in the first act of TFA. Make him completely irredeemable in the first act.. bring back the helmet and have him being badass again.
    3. Hux needs to be killed off in the first 10 minutes. The Last Jedi turned him into a joke in my opinion.. I don't think he's a great choice as the new second main villain.
    4. Bring in the Knights of Ren in the first act to support Kylo as the sole villain of the film. Make what Rey saw into a vision of the future. A major conflict involving Rey, Kylo and The Knights Of Ren can be the big action sequence of the film.
    5. Keep Luke heavily involved in the plot, take advantage of the new force ghost rules (established by the Yoda scene in TLJ) and have Luke interact physically with Rey while she trains on the island at the start. If Yoda was able to hit Luke on the head.. maybe they can spar in some way?
    6. Give us a couple of great flashback scenes to Luke battling Snoke, The Knights of Ren or someone else.. we didn't get enough action with Luke. Don't make them 30 seconds long, give us a good drawn out action sequence involving Luke in his prime.
    7. Don't make a CGI Carrie Fisher a major part of the film, unless it really can be done subtley and properly.
    8. Have Snoke survive in some way to show how powerful and scary he is. Maybe he transferred his consciousness into Kylo Ren?

    These are just some ideas I have, feel free to post yours!
     
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  2. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    1. Yes the biggest yes. Make her a clone found by "her family" she never said parents in TFA.

    2. Yes. I also want no redemption.

    3. HA HA. Yes.

    4. Yes.

    5. Yes.

    6. Yes.

    7. Yes.

    8. No. I think Snoke is ded as dirt.
     
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  3. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    (Except for no CG Leia. That's the only thing we agree on.)
     
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  4. Mitch Pelon

    Mitch Pelon Rebelscum

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    1. I kinda like that her parents were nobodies. I don't really see the need for everyone to be in the family. Ben Solo is probably enough to keep the family legacy going.

    2-4, maybe a bit of 5. I'm lumping these together because my answers to each of these points ended up blending together. Kylo Ren's arc was set right off the bat. The moment he killed his Father just to prove how dark he was, I could tell that his was the story of the rise of a villain, and it's the path he knowingly chose. The obvious next step was to eliminate the one over him and take his place at the top...... which he did. However, his first moments in power did not establish strength of leadership. Quite the opposite. You could see Hux longing to stab him in the back in the final scene on Crait. They're building up to a confrontation between these two. Hux is a worm, and will likely try to stab Ren in the back. The thing is, from what I can tell from the movies as well as the Novel Phasma, Hux is generally liked within the First Order. From what I saw in TFA (abuse of inferiors and all his temper tantrums) and with his aforementioned weak beginning of his reign, I imagine the First Order thinks that Kylo Ren is crazy and a horrible leader. I'm not even sure he knows what to do with a conquered galaxy. If Hux moves against him, I think the rank and file of the First Order will be behind Hux. I imagine Kylo should actually call in the Knights of Ren to help shore up his support and help him stay in power, maybe throwing the First Order into a Civil War. Kylo Ren deliberately chose to be the villain, much more so than Vader ever did. Episode IX is where he'll have to deal with the consequences of that decision. Throughout TLJ he's haunted by his patricide. I could easily see him being literally haunted by Luke.

    5-6. Both about Luke, so they can be answered together. Luke is tricky to deal with. My understanding is that originally Luke had a lot more screentime in the Force Awakens. However, he stole every scene he was in, so they couldn't really tell a story about Rey, Finn, etc, so they cut it down to that last scene. We saw said scene stealing in TLJ. We didn't see much of Luke Training Rey because we were so busy with Luke's problems. Rey's character development came second to Luke getting over his failures. Of course, they probably wouldn't have to write those failure's into Luke's character if they hadn't had to stick him on an Island at the end of TFA. In a nutshell, Luke is such a powerful character that you have to be careful that he doesn't overpower whatever scene you put him in.
    Which isn't to say I don't want to see him. I agree, the new Force Ghost rules should be used. Like I mentioned, he could be literally haunting Ben. He could also just as easily be providing some training and/or exposition in Rey's storyline, but lets try not to let his character overpower hers again. Heck, get Anakin's Force Ghost in there.

    7. Not gonna be a problem. They've already said there not going to do that.

    8. I'm on the fence about having Snoke survive, but I'll humor the idea. I honesty hadn't thought of him implanting his essence into Kylo Ren, but it's a good hook. We know he was in Ben's head when Ben killed him, so it makes some sense. Then again, looking at the sheer amount of scar tissue on Snoke, the physical trauma he's already endured. I wouldn't be surprised if he survives outright. He'll need new legs and a new hand, but I could see it being a thing. After the opening crawl we turn to the debris of his dreadnot, and we see him wake up. He could be the Sith solution to cheating Death, not spiritually as the Jedi do, but physically, where they are empty shells, bodies animated no longer by the Sith Lords they once were, but by only the Dark Side itself. Between that and Ghosts, dealing with the dead could be part of the theme.

    Now I really only have one issue of my own. We need a real conflict for Rey to focus on. Something to actually grow her character past this girl who's naturally good at everything she does. A way for her to figure out who she is and get people invested in and enjoying her story. Now that Luke is dead, she's on her own, to develop as she dictates.

    I wonder though if perhaps the link between her and Ben might not be a source of that conflict. If he is truly as isolated as I think within the First Order, as haunted as he is by his own choices (and possibly by Force Ghosts), I wonder if she might not be at risk of being tormented by his demons. She will have to fight to define who she is, and not get dragged into Kylo Ren's madness.

    Actually, I'm betting that the astral projection communication and Force Ghosts might all be on the same wavelength so to speak. So the conversations with Rey and Kylo Ren might also have Luke, Yoda, maybe even Anakin (and on the off chance Obi-Wan) involved. They can haunt Ben and Train Rey at the same time.

    Ok, one other thing, they need to tie this new storyline to actually be relevant to the old storyline. Tie it in to the Prophecy of the Chosen One, the Dark Side and the Light looking for ways around Death, something.
     
    #4 Mitch Pelon, Jan 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
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  5. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    I would base IX's story on "Star Trek IV: The One With The Whales".

    My idea begins with the Millennium Falcon going backwards in time to Alderaan in the past, in a mission to repair the damaged timeline sustained in the later KK/JJ/RJ Disneyverse, where Jedi Masters are cowards and illogical man-hating SJW's with purple hair are in charge.

    Arriving on a remote Alderaan region in the past, The Falcon's crew also take time to bury a recently deceased General Leia there in secret. They then move to locate and collect two rare Alderaan humpbacked whales which have special communication abilities, take them forward in time aboard the Falcon to a more recent Naboo (around 2012). They then drop them off on Naboo and hope that the whales tell KK/JJ/RJ/Disney what to go do with themselves, to restore the pre 2012 (normal) timeline.

    The whales could be named Carrie and Kenny. And yes, Alderaan still gets blown up in Episode IV.
     
    #5 SKB, Jan 15, 2018
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  6. CnlSandersdeKFC

    CnlSandersdeKFC Rebel Official

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    1. No. That would make me hate the trilogy, and that actually would derail the entire premise of her character.

    2. No. Again, that would undo the character progression he had in this movie. Kylo was always supposed to be a wounded villain, not an "ultimate HaX0r badass."

    3. I actually agree, and I think that was the point. Hux is going to be killed off in the first 10 mins of the 3rd movie to make room for the Knights of Ren.

    4. I'm pretty sure that's already the plan.

    5. Again, pretty sure that's already the plan m8.

    6. Not interested. Luke already exhibited the ultimate mastery of the Force, and I don't need more flashbacks. Ep IX should be entirely concerned with it's own narrative.

    7. Pretty sure Leia's funeral at the start of the next movie is going to play a heavy part in the plot.

    8. So... ruin the best character in the saga by having the worst take him over? No thanks. Snokes dead. Read the book for that backstory bro.
     
    #6 CnlSandersdeKFC, Jan 15, 2018
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  7. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Green Space Rabbit

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    • 1. No. This would contradict the point of TLJ, which was all about the hubris of thinking only great bloodlines can be strong in the force. TLJ provides all the explanation needed for her power: powerful darkness arose (Ben) and powerful light rose to meet it. The force chose Rey, because it's not all about one family.
    • 2. No. Kylo is a great villain, not because he's a one-not "badass' but because he's a complex character. But I'm all down for him being irredeemable now.
    • 3. Sure. I think he was a joke in TFA too though, except JJ didn't know it and Rian did.
    • 4. Absolutely. I would love to see the Knights of Ren play a big role, esp now that Kylo is in charge of things.
    • 5. Cool idea. I def want to see Luke in a big way. With Han gone and Carrie gone, Luke's our biggest connection to the past.
    • 6. Don't see how this would advance the plot. Would rather have good action sequences in the present.
    • 7. No CGI Leia at all please. Let the character die off-screen. Not ideal, but what could be in the current situation? I'd like to think fans would understand.
    • 8. No. Snoke is not actually that powerful and scary. That's one of the great twists of TLJ.

      In my opinion, TLJ is great because it's more concerned with telling a good story with complex characters than "satisfying the fans." I think Rogue One, for example, was great at satisfying the fans. It's a dang fun movie. But I don't think it's a great movie. I didn't leave the theatre thinking it over and mulling over its themes for weeks to come, like I did with TLJ.
     
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  8. Mitch Pelon

    Mitch Pelon Rebelscum

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    Ok, I thought of one more thing that I would actually be a great callback for Star Wars fans. Bring back more classic aliens.

    It's never been a deal-breaker for me, but I keep on looking to see classic aliens from the previous movies show up on screen. Twi'leks, Hutts, Wookiees. Don't get me wrong, I like seeing all these new species pop up, but let me see some of the old ones too. And you know what, we have a great opening for them. The Resistance is trying to rebuild itself. How better to do it than to go to actual planets that were once oppressed by the Empire and start recruiting. I'd love to see Chewie go back to Kashyyk and start recruiting wookiee warriors. Heck, lets actually see Bothans in Canon.

    Also, they need to start building up some of the new alien species. Right now, there's no investment in any particular alien species presented in the sequel trilogy.
     
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  9. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    J.J. will make me very happy , and my soul healed, he will "bring my childhood back", by making Rey to be daughter of Luke Skywalker.

    Its just one more film, one more season, why not close 9 film opus, grab 2 billion dollars by ep IX.( which Rey Skywalker would do, yes I am cheap),and than let them do whatever they want in the entirely new standalone trilogy or trilogies.

    Make the base 9 films- a core of franchise, to be truly a Skywalker one, and than move forward and explore different ways.
     
    #9 McDiarmid, Jan 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
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  10. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    I really, really don't like the odds of 1 person continuing a family.
     
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  11. ralfy

    ralfy Clone Commander

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    Don't rehash content from previous movies. Instead, think of something new, and preferably relevant.

    Write the stories very carefully to avoid major plot holes, poor characterization, and clunky dialogue. The first two will be critical.
     
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  12. IlhamKamaruddin

    IlhamKamaruddin Rebel Commander

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    As said above, JJ and co has to avoid unnecessary mistakes. Make a movie that fits the story and vice versa. In my opinion, I just want greater and richer world-building that will add much needed value to the sequel trilogy as a whole.
     
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  13. garakvsneelix

    garakvsneelix Clone Commander

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    The only way he can make it is a way noone (or at least just a small minority) of us is able to expect...
     
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  14. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    i actually have a great deal of faith in JJ to make an awesome final episode in the saga.

    i think that the first 40 minutes of TFA was pure Star Wars gold, and i could honestly watch it over and over again. i'm guessing story changes, time pressure.. film length etc then led to the second half being over edited and a bit choppy (in my opinion)

    i'm internally cautious that JJ does love to surprise his audiences... so i suspect that there may be another twist in there somewhere.

    in terms of the OP's list:-

    1. I think the discussion of Rey's parentage has been beaten to death.. then resurrected.. and then beaten to death again. I have always maintained that Rey is more than a nobody (ugh.. what a horrible expression that is.. nobody) and whilst i think the Skywalker boat has flown.. it's a definite avenue for JJ to take us down if he so desires.

    2. ahh Ben.. what to do with Ben? whatever happens.. it needs to happen early in ep9. If he is to be the big bad that needs to be defeated, then we will need to see him as the big bad early on... and he would need to be Emperor style nasty and un-redeemable (or seamingly).

    If he is to be redeemed.. again, we will need to see early on that he is not the big bad. i'd suggest Hux turning the FO against him.. he escapes and seeks out Rey alone.

    3. i had Hux dying in the first scene of TLJ... so i'm not gonna go there again (plus it would upset @RockyRoadHux :D)
    I think the General will grow a pair at the beginning of episode 9 and the might of the FO will be more than enough to be the 'villian' of episode 9.

    4. i almost feel like the knights of Ren ship has sailed too... unless there is an unexpected twist there. a wild theory i had a while back was that Ben never turned Luke's other students to the dark side, and that he 'saved' them - thinking they weren't safe from Luke and had to be hidden. i know right? wild lol.

    5. absolutely have Luke heavily involved! oh.. and Anakin (please please please Hayden!)

    6. not sure about that one

    7. no Leai CGI... i think it would be best to have a paragraph in the crawl explaining that she has passed, and leave it at that.

    8. Snoke is dead.. i'd rather they didn't do a 'Maul' on us. stay dead Snoke.
     
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  15. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

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    I would say leave her a nobody. Her being a descendant Obi-Wan will cause a lot of back story for his character is will completely contradict his character for 6 movies. Had they not killed Satine in TCW, I could see a possibility but with her death, I see it very hard for Obi-Wan to find another lover. What if all of those voices that she heard was just to pay homage to Obi-Wan and Yoda? I know that's a sucky answer but I honestly think it's the truth. SW fans needs to stop over analyzing things and start taking things at face value and I promise you'll have less disappointments and can actually enjoy the series. Those voices are honestly just a homage to previous SW characters, nothing more and nothing less.
     
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  16. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    [​IMG]
     
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  17. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    I think they should just stop making more Star Wars films, because the new owners don't have a clue about what Star Wars is and what its supposed to be. They're treating Star Wars as a credit card to fund their other failing projects with the earnings from Star Wars. They are also politicising the fictional Star Wars universe with real world US politics and social political correctness to please the shareholders, which simply shouldn't happen or exist in a totally different galaxy that was a very long time ago and far, far away.

    Why do there have to be more Star Wars films after Episode VI anyway? It ended on a "And they all lived happily ever after" finalé in the Ewok village. The Skywalker's story was all done and dusted, and Lucasfilm allowed novel writers to further speculate about the future after VI, they created the Expanded Universe specifically for that reason. All was well - except for the prequels!

    But now Disney owns it. George's stories were tossed aside, along with many other EU writers stories. Which is both an insult to the writers and to the fans who bought their books. And then, they replaced it all with this new rubbish. It is very sad to see how appalling that Star Wars has become and I lack any enthusiasm or excitement for any further new films. I cannot see myself going to see Solo or IX now.

    Star Wars should be allowed to die if the current owners cannot make Star Wars in the way that Star Wars is "supposed" to be. Or sell it to someone else who can.
     
    #17 SKB, Jan 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
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  18. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    Uh, explain how?
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 16, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 16, 2018 ---
    This trilogy was made 99.9% for money, and the original film started as a dream in George Lucas' head.
     
  19. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    Some simple Jedi-inspired instructions on how to wrap us this trilogy satisfyingly:

    Rewatch all the Star Wars films before anything else. Twice, if possible (at least the Original Trilogy twice).

    If time permits, go watch The Power of Myth with Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers

    Spend a week or two listening to nothing but John Williams' Star Wars soundtracks.

    Meditate. Breathe. Just... breathe.

    Feel the Force. Trust in the Force. ConcenTRAAAATE!

    Search your feelings. What do you see?

    Now, open your eyes, fulfill your destiny, and write nothing less than the greatest story you could possibly imagine.

    Do what you feel is right, of course.
     
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  20. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    DISNEY: "Oh I feel it! Yes I can really feel it!"

    *Luke slaps hand*
     
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