1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

How could The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi been better (long post)

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Ebon Hawk, Apr 22, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ebon Hawk

    Ebon Hawk Clone

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2019
    Posts:
    35
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    12
    Credits:
    205
    Ratings:
    +44 / 9 / -14
    So this is a very long discussion about the issues I had and issues other people have had with the sequel trilogy, what I think of those issues and what I think could have been done better.





    THE FORCE AWAKENS


    On its own I really liked this movie, in spite of the few issues I had with it.


    First flaw, it was a very unoriginal movie, basically a soft reboot of a new hope.


    This I can actually understand because of how some original trilogy fans were disappointed with the prequel trilogies. From a business point of view, I feel they wanted to get these fans back onside while introducing the new characters and generate interest for the next movie.


    In this regard I feel they done a good job in spite of the flaws. When the movie ended I saw an older Luke Skywalker being handed his original/Anakins light-saber and that on its own was enough to make me incredibly excited about episode 8. The hype for episode 8, in turn, was so enormous that they probably could have cut their marketing budget in half and still have had a similar box office return. So this particular flaw can be justified in that regard.



    Next flaw and I accept and understand that for some people this can be regarded as the largest flaw. The character betrayal and death of Han Solo.


    First I want to address the death of Han. Again, this is something I can understand as it helps to give more weight to Kylo Ren as the villain of the piece and any hero is only ever as good as their villain. It’s often hard to let go of a beloved character but when it helps the story it can be justified, look at Game of Thrones.


    I do want to point out at this stage that I would have loved to have seen the “band get back together” – Mark Hamill, but what I am trying to do is to highlight how these movies could have been made and achieved the same end results without betraying the fans in any way.


    On the betrayal of Han Solos character, this is the easiest fix in the world. When we are introduced to him he has obviously returned to smuggling (not in of itself a betrayal of his character) which is how he fluked across the Millennium Falcon. We later learn that he abandoned his wife when things got tough. As an original trilogy fan this was verging on unacceptable but was forgivable until the Last Jedi exacerbated the overall disappointment.


    How to fix it – He was undercover, primarily smuggling weapons, equipment and supplies(fuel?) on behalf of the resistance and occasionally took on riskier/morally dubious jobs as an additional source of funds for the resistance and to maintain his cover as a smuggler. Also it would make sense that the resistance would have need of smugglers being a technically illegal paramilitary force operating from within the republic. This way he hasn’t abandoned Leia and is still an important figure in the resistance which also makes it clearer why he knew straight away that Finn was lying about being in the resistance. If you wanted you could even have Leia argue with Han a bit when they meet up later in the movie for taking on that specific smuggling job which lost the large transport ship and its crew, they loved each other but didn’t always see eye to eye (fits with their characters). If you had good writers you could even make it subtly funny like in the first Incredibles movie where just prior to the final battle scene Elastigirl and Mr Incredible argue about which exit ramp to take, but that would require good writers.


    Note - Going back to the death of Han Solo, something cool at this point would have been Kylo Ren gaining Sith eyes when he stabs Han but when Han places his hand on Kylo Rens cheek his eyes flicker briefly back to normal eyes. This would have helped with the final flaw I discuss from this movie which was addressed (not very well) in The Last Jedi that Kylo Ren was unbalanced when he battled Rey at the end of The Force awakens.



    Phasma lowering starkiller bases shield


    Crucial to the plot but badly done. I understand from the expanded universe that she was a survivor and her willingness to do anything to survive allowed her to rise to prominence on a Mad Max type planet prior to being recruited by The First Order. Still it was too easy to get her to lower the shield. Two little changes here would have made a bit of a difference. The first being after she lowers the shield she states “Even with the shields deactivated do you really think you have any chance of destroying this facility”. Over confidence has always been a flaw of the bad guys in Star Wars, though she would have somewhat of a point. Look at the difficulty the X-wings had in breaching the armour of the Thermal oscillator. Without the internal explosives placed internally the plan would have failed. Another change that might have helped was prior to lowering the shields Finn had his weapon pointed at Phasma telling her to lower the shields. Phasma clearly has no respect for Finn and could laugh away his threats. Finn could then say something like


    “Okay, I get it. I need you alive to lower the shields and you don’t think I have what it takes to force you to do that so I’m going to step back for a while and allow my friend to lets say…. Discuss… this issue with you. You might have heard of him before. Hey Chewbacca, Captain Phasma is ready to speak with you.”


    The same scene, the same result but done a little better. A slightly simpler solution would be that they needed her for something as simple as a palm print or iris scan.




    Final major flaw, Reys defeat of Kylo Ren in spite of no training whatsoever.


    As mentioned above you could have Kylos eyes flashing from Sith eyes to regular eyes and have him visibly struggling with this dichotomy and his injury thus limiting his combat effectiveness and allowing Rey to overcome him. Even better would be to still have Kylo struggling with balance & injury but nonetheless defeating Rey. He shouldn’t just defeat her he should toy with her showing how her lack of training results in a gulf between their abilities. At the end of this battle in the movie we had the planet breaking apart, a giant crevice separates them and they go their separate ways. Have the same thing happen. The crevice, you could argue represents the gulf between them, if you’re into that sort of thing, and Rey only escapes because of that bit of luck.


    This would make Rey much less canon breaking and greatly emphasize her need for training while also elevating Kylo as a dangerous villain, I refer you to my previous statement that a hero is only ever as good as their villain.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Old News Old News x 1
  2. Ebon Hawk

    Ebon Hawk Clone

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2019
    Posts:
    35
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    12
    Credits:
    205
    Ratings:
    +44 / 9 / -14
    THE LAST JEDI



    Where to begin? I suppose my personal experience would be the best starting point. As mentioned previously I had enormous anticipation for this movie and as much goodwill for Lucasfilm/Disney going into it as I had going into The Force Awakens. So much goodwill that I had forgiven the flaws with The Force Awakens. When I came out of this movie I was genuinely confused but nevertheless defended the movie while I was processing what I had seen.


    I was, in fact so confused that I wanted to watch it a second time to see if there were things I missed in my first viewing that would make more sense a second time round. As luck would have it I ended up not being able to arrange a second viewing. I say this because that movie did not deserve the financial support I gave it in the first place. Part of my confusion was with regard to why would they completely sacrifice originality with The Force Awakens in order to bring the original trilogy fans back onside only to utterly betray them with The Last Jedi.



    This to me raises an important question in relation to the success The Last Jedi had at the box office (by the way very similar opening weekend to the force awakens but $700 million less overall box office, this should tell you something). Did anyone else have the same confusion as I did but end up going to see this movie more than once in order to try and get their heads around it?



    Anyway, on to addressing the flaws.


    The first plot points I will discuss are not very important but may be a bit of fun.


    The Mandator IV dreadnought, Snokes inconsequential black crystal ring and The First Orders massive production capabilities.


    These are generally not major issues (except for the first orders production capabilities) but I tied them together for a weak but somewhat workable plot point.


    A bit of science here for the nerds. An Iron star is a type of hypothetically predicted star that has reached the end of its life but has insufficient mass to form a black hole, neutron star, etc. Instead it forms into a massive sphere made largely out of Iron. These are very old stars and you could have it that an orphaned Iron star (ejected from a different galaxy) was found orbiting a massive star (trapped by its gravity thousands of years ago) in the unknown regions by the first order. This would provide the First Order with an enormous amount of raw materials to produce durasteel for their ships, starkiller base, etc.


    I should point out that I haven’t been able to find out exactly what durasteel is made from other than a particular type of ore, Zersium??? was critical in its production. The best analogy on Earth that I can think of to use is steel which generally has about 99% Iron + Carbon and other elements depending on the type of steel being produced. If Zersium was about 1-2% of durasteel and the rest was primarily Iron (retconning or a fuller explanation of durasteel if necessary) this would be an enormously important resource that admittedly wouldn’t completely explain the First orders production capabilities but would have contributed to whatever explanation we are going to get in episode 9. Why not keep a few mysteries for the final movie? Admittedly with JJ Abrams there may never have been any intention of addressing it.


    The crystal from Snokes ring could have been obtained from the heart of this star and why not make it a Kyber crystal, I think fans would have loved this and it adds a bit more a relevance. Also it would help with the hype.


    This does leave you with the problem of how to mine the Iron Star due to what would be a massive gravitational pull. How about a ship in orbit with enormous cannons that blast chunks off the surface (Mandators auto cannons) and then has a bay to collect these fragments of the iron star for processing/transport (Mandators weak point). These details don’t even have to be addressed in the movie, instead just release them in the lead up to the movie to maintain the hype levels and afterwards to explain the Mandators ridiculous weak point.


    Like I said a weak but somewhat workable plot point.



    The next issue is the lack of explanation from Holdo to other characters about what the plan to escape was.


    This, I think, is actually justifiable and exceptionally easy to explain away in the movie. When Po confronts Holdo in the hangar bay about what he sees of the plan to escape using the shuttles, she doesn’t have to completely disregard and dismiss him. She could simply explain that the shuttles are only a part of the plan and the reason she’s not allowing the entire plan to be widely known is in case anyone is captured and forced to reveal any details to the first order (with Snoke and Kylo Ren on the Supremacy, this would be an easy task for the first order) and to trust her as the plan is more complex than just abandoning ship. You could also have her state that she is concerned that there may be a spy on board (how did the first order know where they jumped to? Holdo had not been informed about the hyperspace tracker).


    At this point it would be understandable that Po would be uncomfortable with the plan and would look for an alternative plan but wouldn’t stupidly start a mutiny and try to use the last of their fuel to escape through hyperspace as it was already established that this will not work.


    So Po, Finn, BB8 and if REEAAALLLLLYY necessary Rose come up with their plan and Po approaches Holdo. Po and Finn informs Holdo about the hyperspace tracking device and that he has a plan to take it out. Holdo then takes Finn and Po aside to find out about his plan in private in order to keep information compartmentalized. She gives her approval for the plan (why not have two options for escape especially if the new one gives the possibility of keeping their most important ship) and warns everyone on this mission to avoid discussing the plan with anyone else. This makes Holdo a better,more understandable, more trustworthy leader and a less unlikable character.


    I will return to the side mission later.


    When the shuttles have departed the Raddus (The resistance heavy cruiser) Holdo addresses the skeleton crew that have stayed on board with her, the idea that she would try to pilot the ship on her own is ridiculous. Here she informs them of the rest of the plan.


    Once the shuttles are clear of the chasing fleet and they are confident that the shuttles will make it to the abandoned base without attracting attention from the first order they will make their last hyperspace jump in the Raddus. When they have completed this jump the remaining crew are to abandon the Raddus using Ackbars own yacht which is docked in one of the hangar bays. Yeah, Ackbars still around and he has a yacht. The Raddus will be left on cruise control and will have about 5-10 minutes of reserve power left, plenty of time for the crew to abandon ship. The important thing about this plan is that they will be jumping into an area of the Kessel run (or something similar) that is notoriously difficult for large ships to navigate effectively. This will at least slow down the first order for a while and may even result in damage to some of their ships while the resistance skeleton crew from the Raddus escape in Ackbars yacht. The resistance fighters previously left on the planet with the abandoned rebel base will be picked up by other members of the resistance once they establish contact.


    As a side note this could have helped with the hyping up of the Solo movie as what made the Millennium Falcon famous, according to Han Solo in A New Hope was its kessel run.



    This next piece addresses the Hyperspace ramming flaw.


    As mentioned by many other people, if you can hyperspace ram the Supremacy why not Hyperspace ram the death star. I address this point now to continue with Holdo and discuss it in somewhat of a narrative way.


    The shuttles leave the Raddus and DJ reveals to the first order how to detect them. Hux sees the shuttles and orders for them to be destroyed one at a time rather than all at once, which they should be easily able to do, in order to try and get the Raddus to intervene and face its destruction. This would be a decent tactical decision by Hux and makes him less of a joke, if only partially, due to the “your Momma” joke at start of the movie. The crew of the Raddus see what is happening and turn to Holdo to receive their orders to intervene, no question in their minds that they are willing to lay down their lives to protect the people in the shuttles. This is in spite of the fact that they know they are operating at minimal capacity. Holdo orders the Raddus to come about, a smiling Hux looking on from the Supremacy.


    Ackbar speaks up. “Admiral Holdo, we still have enough fuel for another Hyperspace jump and they have a Hyperspace tracking device that we know from Finns Intel maintains a static Hyperspace bubble within their ship”. Holdo looks at him for a moment then realizes what he is saying. She orders one of her crew to feed the information of their scans of the supremacy showing the position of its hyperspace signal into navigation. The crew knowing what is about to happen and already being willing to lay down their lives give wry smiles knowing yes they will die but they will deliver a massive sucker punch to The First Order in doing so. The Raddus is now almost completely turned about and its hyperdrive nearly charged. Ackbar gives a little chuckle. Holdo looks at him “Care to share Admiral?” She uses his previous title even though he is retired as she has no reason to have anything but respect for him. Ackbar responds saying “just the idea of using their own technology as a trap against them”. A little something for the fans. Holdo smiles and looks towards the Supremacy.


    Meanwhile in the supremacy Hux gives the order for the escorting Star destroyers to stay out of this fight as he wants the glory of destroying the last known major capital ship of the resistance for himself. Another echo of the mistaken arrogance of the Empire carrying over to the first order. One of his subordinates speaks up stating that the resistance ship is charging up its hyperdrive and appears to be set on a collision course. Hux, confused, asks what kind of idiots are on that ship? You can’t ram a ship in hyperspace unless both ships are in hyperspace and you would have to precisely co-ordinate between the two ships to achieve that (Space is big). Also, if they’re just doubling back to somewhere else in the galaxy the Supremacy will be able to track them with its Hyperspace tracking device. At this point his eyes go wide as he realizes what is about to happen. He quickly tries to scream an order to shut down the tracker but it’s too late. We switch to a view outside the Raddus engaging its hyperdrive and have the same silent explosion that was in the movie.


    Being fair where we can, that scene was at the very least visually impressive, probably one of the best visuals in any Star Wars movie.


    So that is the end of a better Holdo whom more of the fans might actually now have a bit of appreciation for.


    Also, a much better send off for Ackbar, a beloved character that was put onto the Raddus purely so he could die in an under-whelming fashion.


    You also now have a situation where using a hyperspace tracking device on any ship leaves that ship extremely vulnerable and hyperspace ramming can only work under very specific conditions. Otherwise if the first order has 20 to 30 thousand of their very impressive star destroyers, every one of them could be destroyed by a rickety old cargo ship or freighter with a working hyperdrive. If the resistance have the time and technical ability, a hyperdrive capable missile equipped to an X-wing would allow an X-wing to one-shot a star destroyer making large ships pointless death traps in star wars.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
    • Old News Old News x 1
  3. Ebon Hawk

    Ebon Hawk Clone

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2019
    Posts:
    35
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    12
    Credits:
    205
    Ratings:
    +44 / 9 / -14
    Bombs falling in space.


    Not much of an issue and I know that the way it was done was for a visual effect but a simple chute or rails with lights that come on as each individual bomb is propelled from where it is held may have addressed this. When the button is pressed to release the bombs you could have a screen readout stating something like “magnetic accelerators activated”. So easy.


    The less said about the worst designed ships in star wars history the better. The heavy bombers, I’ll give a brief summary. Paper thin armour, no shields, ineffective point defense, very slow. All together seemingly only useful against defenseless targets, this is supposed to be a military ship.



    Leia Poppins.


    Not a major issue at all and I find this issue a difficult one to address well because in this discussion I am trying to address the issues the fans like myself (some of which aren’t issues for me) have while maintaining the same end results so it doesn’t really fit to say just leave this scene on the cutting room floor but in some instances that may be necessary.


    You could simply have the ceiling of the bridge collapse inwards and she is pulled out of that wreckage still alive along with some others and state that when the bridge was hit emergency bulkheads snapped into place but some people were lost and many were hurt, you could even have a tense scene where rescuers are desperately trying to get in and then frantically look for survivors among the dead and seriously injured. Leia, like in the movie is eventually pulled out in a coma.


    I feel the motivation behind the scene we got was primarily to tug at the heart strings a bit and again for the visual effect so the above solution doesn’t work very well as it leaves Leia Poppins on the cutting room floor.


    Also why didn’t the Raddus have any shields? Is it normally this easy for starfighters to take out the hangar and bridge of a capital ship? How about a brief scene when the Raddus comes out of hyperspace they lower their shields and other defenses to preserve their limited fuel and when the first order arrives there is a frantic rush to get their defenses back online. This can eventually be accomplished after the initial attack and be what forces the TIE fighters to withdraw.


    With regard to Leia using the force, she was first shown to be force sensitive as far back as The Empire Strikes back when Luke was hanging off the bottom of cloud city and Leia heard his call. So it is not difficult to imagine Luke giving her at least some tutelage in the force in the last 30 – 40 years. Bare in mind that it has been well established that force wielders can be difficult to kill. Look at what Darth Vader and Darth Maul endured. Add to that the fact that Leia, as Lukes twin, has the same potential strength in the force as Luke. I may seem like an apologist for Lucasfilm here and I could go on with sciency stuff about heat exchange in space but instead lets say for arguments sake that this scene is left in the movie as it originally appeared with one massive change.


    This change is that The Last Jedi was an exceptionally good movie. So think about that for a minute. You have this scene in an exceptionally good movie, not just an exceptionally good Star Wars movie but an exceptionally good movie on its own merits. So there might be people out there justifiably arguing about whether The Empire Strikes Back or The Last Jedi is the best movie in the franchise. At an arguably lesser level, even if it was widely considered as almost as good as The Return Of The Jedi. Under those circumstances people may still complain about it but it would be a source of fun with the the fans, like the accuracy of storm troopers in the original trilogy. This way we could enjoy poking fun at it rather than it being yet another symptom of a greater problem.


    Here is an important point to remember, which I will discuss further later on. Generally speaking Star Wars fans can be forgiving. I am obviously excluding the blatantly deplorable people that associate themselves with star wars from that statement (more on those people later).



    Rose Tico and a bit about Phasma and Finn.


    The first issue I want to discuss is not actually Rose herself but rather what is happening when she is introduced. This is Finn running away even though in the Force Awakens he was easily willing to risk his life on a massively dangerous mission to fight the First Order. This is just another unnecessary character betrayal. It’s unnecessary because there are a million and one different ways they could have encountered each other that didn’t involve Finn being a coward. Let’s not forget in The Force Awakens when he sees Rey being attacked he rushed to help her before seeing that she was perfectly capable of looking after herself and earlier in that movie when his comrades are shooting the villagers he doesn’t join in as he’s so horrified. His motivation to fight came from his desire to protect people and now he’s a coward, but it’s apparently okay because at the end of this movie he has a fight scene with Phasma who was criminally underused.


    Rose could have been a far better character, the eternal optimist that brings cheer to everyone even in bleak times if done right can be very effective. When the fight scene happens on the Supremacy you could have Phasma knock Rose to the ground with her spear, maybe even stab her and say “Did you really think that little pea shooter would breach my armour,it barely has enough punch to pierce a storm troopers armour” Finn rushes in with the riot control baton smacking her away from Rose stating “I got something with a bit more punch”, Cheap but working within the movie we got. At this point you could have the fight scene include the deleted portion which I’ve seen on youtube. This doesn’t save the movie but the scene works a bit better… a little bit.., maybe don’t bother with the deleted scene, it really doesn’t improve anything.


    If you’ve seen the deleted scene she could have pulled up a piece of debris to shield herself from the majority of the blast but still be blown back off the platform. Maybe she doesn’t survive maybe she does. There is very limited scope in this movie to give her a bigger role. If she survives you can give her a more significant role in the final installment. There is also the possibility of something like the Clone Wars animated series where you could expand the character. Of course if Rose still isn’t working as a character you could have her die as a result of her injuries, not a major loss and provides additional motivation for Finn.


    Likely the best outcome in this scene would have been for Finn to barely escape from Phasma with his life. This would have given him an obstacle to overcome in episode 9 which is something that is sorely missing for the all of the good guys/girls at the moment.




    Kylo Rens shirtless scene.


    Don’t care. He’s swole, let him show it off if he wants.



    Finns suicide run against the battering ram cannon.


    Another easy fix.


    I have heard some people say why not let him have his moment as a martyr. While I understand this, we do need the first order to break through the fortresses defenses for the movie to progress. Finn sacrificing himself but not stopping the breaching of the doors would have been a not great send off. The First order walkers did have their large turbolasers so maybe they still could have breached the doors, it just would have taken a bit longer.


    There is a very simple solution. Look at all the walkers. Finn is no longer maneuvering, just flying in a dead straight line. The other resistance pilots see what he is doing but so do the first order gunners. A blast from one of their cannons hits the wing of his speeder sending him careening of to the side. Any of the remaining pilots can rush to rescue him from the wreckage. Doesn’t have to be Rose whom if you remember from earlier we may have decided to let die. Even if it is Rose, Finn is unconscious so we don’t get that dumb speech or the awkward kiss. Otherwise have him limp his speeder back to the base.


    That’s enough said about that.




    General Hux and the prank call.


    This…just don’t.


    In any story of good versus evil you have to have a credible adversary so when Po first states that he is still waiting for a response during Huxs rant have Hux immediately order the destruction of the X-Wing. You gain nothing by having Hux needing to be informed that he is being pranked and lose nothing by having Pos prank fail,he gets his cheeky pleasure from having attempted it in the first place and can still ignite his extra engine to get in range of the Mandators point defenses without discrediting Hux. Any joke that you drag out just becomes annoying.


    Done.



    Canto Bight.


    As I’ve mentioned before I am trying to maintain as much of the movie as possible without throwing things to the cutting room floor. At this point things get difficult.


    Lets begin with the mistreatment of the fathiers (the racing animals). This makes no sense at all. Consider race horses, owned by wealthy people, worth a lot of money and absolutely pampered by their owners which normally requires employing highly skilled people at a high cost. As such I don’t know how to change that particular part of this scene because I deem it to nonsensical to be able to save. You could still have the fathiers being used in the escape. Why not, a fast paced, well written and well directed escape scene can always help improve the pacing of a movie.


    The whole Canto Bight arc is so bad I genuinely cannot see any way to really save it other than Ivan Ortegas take where he cuts the majority of it from his fixed version but I will try. ………Ehh……Ummm….Aahhh……Dammit, writers block. I know I’ll just throw in some of the type of pedantic socio-political messaging that’s kinda popular at the moment here. People will then be afraid to say negative things about this movie and if anyone criticizes it we can use this as a shield. Let’s also make BB8 the best fighter in the galaxy (Thank you screenrant).


    I am not kidding, how did they think this arc helped the movie? Just check out Ivan Ortegas fixed version.





    FYI - I consider myself to be politically center-left.




    Porgs.


    Honestly, harmless in the grand scheme of things, just a pointless product placement that do not benefit the movie in any way like C-3POs red arm. Not sufficiently bothered to make any recommendations about them.




    The big one, the betrayal of Luke Skywalkers character.


    The hardest part of this to correct is Kylo Rens hatred of Luke. As bad as what they done was I understand their motivation for doing it as there needed to be some justification for their schism. My solution, like the Mandator IV discussion is a bit weak but I am trying to work within the confines of the movie we got. So I would have Luke explain the situation to Rey, Bare in mind that Kylo shouldn’t feel any need to explain himself to her.


    The story I have, in flashback, would be as follows. Ben Solo was sent to Luke by his parents as they were worried about him going of the rails, a text-book, arrogant, gifted, problem-child. Leia and Han were hoping that through Lukes teachings Ben would thrive in a challenging environment as he had excelled beyond everything he’d done with his peers to this date and through this process, like previous Jedi, learn discipline and empathy.


    So Ben arrives on Aktoo and is taken in by Luke for training (Great opportunity to have Luke, Han and Leia in one scene together). Initially things go well and thanks to his natural affinity with the force he quickly outpaces and exceeds Lukes other students. This is when the previous issues Leia and Han observed come to the surface again and Ben becomes aloof and arrogant around the other students. While some of the students gravitate towards him, most start distancing themselves from him which he assumes is just a result of their jealously. Luke has several talks with him to no avail and starts to worry that he may have to step in to teach him some humility.


    Luke takes Ben aside from the other students and gives him some difficult tasks to complete with the force. Ben initially fails the tasks believing that Luke is being purposefully hard on him out of jealously or because Luke feels threatened by Bens raw ability. Luke then completes the tasks in front of Ben to show him what he could achieve with the right mindset. The approach doesn’t work and Ben starts to believe that Luke is withholding knowledge from him to keep him subservient.


    Eventually in a sparring session, organised by Ben without Lukes knowledge, Ben injures a number of other students. Luke arrives to see the injured students with Ben standing aloof above them. An argument ensues and Luke resigns himself to having to take a more direct hand in teaching Ben some humility. When Ben states that he is better and more powerful than anyone else in this academy, Luke asks him “do you include me in that statement”? To which Ben replies he does. Luke walks over to a rack and picks up a training sword which shock and can do blunt damage then challenges Ben to prove it.


    In the battle that follows Luke easily nullifies, parries and deflects all of Bens sword and force attacks lecturing him all the time on how his mindset is his biggest obstacle. The fight ends with Luke throwing Ben to the ground and pinning him down with the force until he admits defeat. Ben being as arrogant as he was doesn’t learn any humility, only feels humiliated and becomes even more convinced that Luke is withholding knowledge from him lest Ben should surpass Luke.


    That night he gathers up the few trainees that he feels he can trust and leaves the temple but not before destroying the temple and leaving everyone else there for dead, unaware that Luke survived. Might be a good idea to have Luke state he used the force to conceal his presence after he was trapped under some rubble. Thus Ben is picked up by Snoke, ripe for corruption to the dark side and desperately hungry for more knowledge of the force. Snoke being a dark side practitioner every so often gives him some knowledge that Ben Solo, now Kylo Ren, never was even remotely aware of and always teases of more knowledge to come in order to keep him subservient. The exact issue he had accused Luke of. Knowing that he can never go back he starts to hate himself and projects that hatred onto Luke.


    A long one, but again better than what we got.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
    • Old News Old News x 1
  4. Ebon Hawk

    Ebon Hawk Clone

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2019
    Posts:
    35
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    12
    Credits:
    205
    Ratings:
    +44 / 9 / -14
    Lukes withdrawal from the Galaxy his training of Rey and his death.


    Watching this scene I initially thought that Luke was pulling a Yoda. What I mean by this is that he was pretending to be something he wasn’t in order to get a better read of Reys character. When it turned out that he had just decided to become a bum I could not come to terms with it.


    I want to address some commentary I came across from, apparently one of the original writers because I do believe it is relevant. This writer, whose name I cannot remember, stated that the problem with Luke was any scene he was written into he just completely dominated. This is actually very understandable and I want to remain consistent so I refer you to my previous comments about any hero is only as good as their villain. If Luke could walk onto the bridge of a ship, wave his hand and thus defeat Snoke and Kylo you have no struggle, no credible adversary, no movie. From this point of view I understand removing Luke from the equation but why not do it in a way that is consistent with his character and The Force Awakens. Why would Luke leave behind an admittedly difficult to assemble map of how to find him if he didn’t want to be found.


    First of all lets look at the passage of time. At the end of the Force Awakens Rey is on Acktoo. This should not really happen at the same time as the first order attacking the rebels at the start of The Last Jedi because it doesn’t give Luke any time to train Rey. So when The Last Jedi returns to Acktoo simply state something like 4 months earlier. This gives a bit of time for Rey to receive some real training.


    We’ll say that Luke was pulling a Yoda as unnecessary as it was and eventually agrees to train Rey. Easy to do it differently but I’m working within the confines of the movie we got. The awful joke with regard to reaching out which garnered more groans than laughs can be just left out. Otherwise the scene plays out the same. Afterwards Rey states, as she did in the movie, that she sensed nothing from Luke surmising that he has cut himself off from the force. Difficult to explain this away and remain loyal to Lukes character but I have a better explanation than Luke giving up and going to Acktoo to die.


    Luke Skywalker being the exceptionally powerful Jedi master that he is was able to pierce the shroud of the dark side and peer into possible futures. In every potential future that he viewed where he confronted Snoke, Kylo would turn up and join the confrontation and in every potential confrontation with Kylo, either with Kylo on his own or with Snoke, Luke, like in his final confrontation with his father, would not be able to bring himself to kill his nephew. Luke would see his death in each of these confrontations at the hands of Kylo Ren and the Galaxy would be subsequently plunged into a prolonged period of darkness. Even with Lukes incredible power in the force he could not see to a point in the future when this darkness would end. The further into the future you try to look the harder it becomes to see any further.


    Luke came to the conclusion that in order to have any hope of defeating the first order he had to remove himself from the equation and even disconnect himself from the force in the hopes that another would rise to restore balance. This is why he left the map behind.


    We now turn more to Reys training. Luke shows her the books on Acktoo and explains one of the issues with the Jedi is how over the centuries the Jedi have lost much knowledge and shunned even more. The main advantage that dark side users have is that they shun no knowledge of the force and these books contain information that to Lukes awareness not even the dark side users are aware of. This gives these books massive importance, arguably alludes to balanced Jedi and provides some justification for later on in the version we got when Luke goes to burn them as he didn’t want the knowledge contained in these books to fall into Snokes or Kylos hands.


    Luke now reconnects with the force in order to better train Rey and demonstrates the kind of ability he has by lifting thirteen or so massive boulders similar to the boulders discussed in Legend that few Jedi could manage to lift all of. Rey then tries but fails to lift even one, he also has her perform some basic light-saber forms which she does poorly.


    He suggests that there is a very fast way to train in the use of the force but there would be a price and it has likely been thousands of years since anyone received this type of training. This alludes to the knowledge contained in the books, again increasing their importance. Rey asks what the price is and Luke responds that he will not tell her but she would find out. She considers this, wanting to help her friends and painfully aware of her shortcomings from her battle with Kylo Ren and inability to lift even one boulder agrees to the accelerated training.


    The next training scene has Luke and Rey sitting facing each other meditating. Luke has his hand outstretched to Rey who is visibly in discomfort. Slowly her discomfort grows until she is clearly in pain. She clasps her hands to her head grimacing as she fights to remain upright. Eventually the suffering is to great and she collapses unconscious. Luke looking a bit tired stands, picks her up and places her in a bed then walks outside to a morning sun. Later that day a still suffering and confused looking Rey emerges from the hut and looks to Luke stating “What was that, my mind is swimming and I’m still dizzy from the pain alone”. Luke gestures for her to sit and offers her some food but she gags at the idea of eating in her condition. He begins his explanation.


    “The force has often been used to draw information from a persons mind and even to influence weak minds but what I have done is used the force to place a significant portion of knowledge of the force into your mind. It will take a few days for your mind to recover and settle at which point we will do some practical training followed by another of these sessions and we will repeat this as often as we can. It is no easy task and you will suffer much but you will gain knowledge of all aspects of the force from combat techniques to meditation to philosophies and everything in between but for now you must eat”.


    At this point you could return to the other characters to establish a passage of time before showing the next scene in Reys training. This can be a few times throughout the movie. Rey is again practicing her light-saber forms in the mid-day sun but with notable improvement from previously and Luke is advising to look to the knowledge she has and to explain to him what she could be doing better. Rey pauses for a moment to think then states her footwork and grip aren’t what they should be. Luke smiles and says “Trust in the knowledge you now have and the force will guide you”. Rey resumes her forms with a slight but obvious improvement. Luke say “Well done, I do believe it is time for another session”. Rey looks apprehensive but accepts that this is what she must endure.


    Cut to a late evening scene, Luke exits the hut more tired looking than after the first session. He walks along the path to where he took Rey in an earlier scene, sits in front of the boulders and begins to meditate. The boulders start to lift, though this time instead of all of them lifting at once they rise and hover in sequence. When he gets to the eight boulder it rises slower than the previous ones and hovers unstably. Luke with a grimace on his face is clearly struggling. The ninth boulder begins to vibrate subtly but doesn’t lift. Luke with his eyes open reaches out a shaky hand but the boulder still doesn’t lift. He gasps, the boulders fall back to the ground and he spins to see a pained Rey looking at him. This time it is not the pain from their training session that paints her face it is the realization of what he has done for her.


    Rey states “All this time, this is what you meant when you said there would be a price to pay. You let me believe that my pain was the price but you’ve been sacrificing your strength in the force to make me more powerful. I accepted the pain, you knew I would, but you had to know I would say no to this.”


    Luke – “I am sorry Rey, truly I am. It had to be this way. I told you before how if I confronted Snoke or Kylo I would fail and the galaxy would fall into darkness. You know this is the truth you can feel it yourself. My role in the future of this galaxy has come to an end and it is time for a new generation of Jedi, ones that will not repeat the mistakes of the past to rise. My final role as the last remaining Jedi is to prepare someone, to prepare you, for the trials that must be faced. If there was a better way I would have taken it. My story is coming to an end but do not grieve for me, my legacy will live on with you, through your actions and through how you chose to take the galaxy forward. I no longer have the strength to pierce the shroud of the darkside and can only get hints of the near future. I do not know that you will win but I do believe it. I have not given you my power I have only given you knowledge but doing it at that pace, it took a toll, a toll that I gladly pay”.


    Rey in grief and disbelief turns and runs away. At this point you could have her fall into the cave and face the dark side mirror. It’s not very important but for the fans it fits with the trials of becoming a Jedi and with previous stories. Luke with Chewbaccas help removes her from the cave and they place her exhausted body in a hut to rest. Luke then chats with Chewbacca for a while telling him that Rey will choose to leave soon, likely the following day as he knows she will no longer accept any of the training Luke was giving her.


    Luke asks Chewie to wait a moment then leaves only to return shortly afterwards to give him a large package to present to her when she has more come to terms with what Luke has done. This package can obviously be later revealed to contain the books and any number of additional objects such as relics, crystals, holocrons,a personal recorded message/s from Luke to Rey, maps to other forgotten Jedi temples and importantly, instructions on how to construct a light-saber.


    So Rey gives a tearful goodbye to Luke and leaves Acktoo, instead she is justifiably with the potential to be a match for Kylo Ren.


    That just leaves his death. When the shuttles with the resistance fighters in them are being destroyed by the first order we see Luke meditating and he feels their deaths. We return to The space battle and it proceeds as previously discussed with the remaining resistance fighters making it to the planet and awaiting the upcoming battle. Back on Acktoo Luke raises his X-wing from the sea, weakened as he is, it is still a relatively easy task for him showing how far he had come from The Empire Strikes Back. He removes a case from the X-wing and opens it revealing a small number of boxes of different colours, another little Easter egg for fans as to which colour light-saber he actually had and what he would choose. Luke pauses considering the possible dark ramifications of intervening. Clearly concerned his hand hovers over the boxes. If you wanted you could have Yoda appear to him at this point to discuss the potential risk he is about to take and hints at an alternative, maybe even hint that it was something to do with the books.


    Moving to Lukes battle with Kylo Ren I would have it work out the same way with Luke force projecting himself to the remaining resistance fighters to buy the time for them to escape. This time it makes more sense as Luke does a final service for the resistance without the previously mentioned consequences. The exertion of it in his weakened state costing him his life. Not ideal for him to die at this point especially as he is now weakened and we know he cannot intervene directly against Kylo or Snoke but again working within the movie we got.


    Okay that was a very long one but for such a major issue it deserved the extra input.


    Force Ghosts.


    So Force ghosts can now not only go anywhere they want but can also physically interact with the world and summon lightning bolts. This means that they can intervene in any fight or battle by attacking the bad guys or pressing the wrong buttons in a ship to disable/destroy it.


    Nope, bad Rian Johnson, bad.




    Kylo Ren and Snoke.


    Snokes death was difficult to take because in The Force Awakens he was a shadowy ominous character and during the Last Jedi he was developed into being a genuinely scary, malevolent, creepy figure. Brilliant, a very credible bad guy. The death of Snoke in of itself is not a major issue. What does cause it to be an issue is the fact that after his death you only have two main bad guys. Hux and Kylo Ren both of whom are weak main villains because of the issues I addressed previously. So assuming these issues were addressed properly Hux would no longer be as much of a joke and if you left Kylo with his mask there would have been less crybaby face with him, thereby helping his character. Also when it came to him in his Tie silencer targeting the bridge of the Raddus where he sensed his mother, okay maybe have him pause and his eyes flicker back and forth between Sith eyes and normal eyes, when it came to taking the shot but don’t have him take his finger of the trigger, that just unnecessarily weakens the character.


    With regard to who Snoke is, why not just have him as Darth Plagueis. Palpatine poisoned him and believed him to be dead. The poison would explain his messed up face, neck and frail looking body. Darth Plagueis, you could say, was from the Muun alien race. Their lifespans were similar to humans but retconning this to be more similar to or greater than Wookies would be a workable solution. Also his betrayal by Palpatine would have left him paranoid about another betrayal which is why he would have created a permanent connection to Kylo Rens mind, justifying somewhat his statement of how Kylo cannot betray him and the eventual means of his death at Kylos hands, Kylo picturing in his mind killing Rey with his light-saber while simultaneously positioning Reys light-saber for the killing strike.


    Another option would be to have him as being one of the other apprentices of Palpatine that was trained up to rival and challenge Darth Vader. However when he challenged Vader he got destroyed but survived and escaped to the unknown regions. There he discovered some abandoned Imperial production facilities after Return of the Jedi and set about recruiting any fragmented Imperial forces he could and conquering areas in the unknown regions. He then could have spent 30 years building up his military. Speaking of which, it would have been so much better if every squad of soldiers had a number of commando droids (significantly superior to battle droids) led by storm troopers.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
    • Old News Old News x 1
  5. Ebon Hawk

    Ebon Hawk Clone

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2019
    Posts:
    35
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    12
    Credits:
    205
    Ratings:
    +44 / 9 / -14
    Reys parentage.


    Left this one till near the end as it’s not a major issue in the grand scheme and has the easiest fix in the world. In episode 9 simply reveal that Kylo lied. Alternatively if you wanted her parents revealed in The Last Jedi it is easily done. Leia would clearly have taken a keen interest in Rey when it became known to her that she had tapped into the Force and would want to know as much about her as possible. When they meet up on the Millennium Falcon, at the end of the last Jedi. Leia could say to Rey “I managed to keep the results of your DNA test from when you had your medical, I’ve had them for quite a while if you still are interested in knowing who your parents are”. So a massive door opens to possible parents. There are the obvious ones like she’s a Kenobi or another Skywalker. I prefer the idea of her being a Palpatine. There are numerous options and though I don’t care deeply about this issue some relevance would have been nice. A different option I heard is that the people that sold her weren’t her parents. They just found her in a stasis pod in an abandoned Imperial research facility, you don’t have to give a specific parentage but you do establish that there is something significant to her, a “mystery box” JJ Abrams would have been happy with, I really liked this idea.




    The “Rey is too good at everything” argument


    As I have mentioned previously a hero is only ever as good as their villain and in this regard episode 9 has a very serious problem. I have given a number of ways that the villains could have been better but that is not what we have at the moment. People who have a negative opinion of The Last Jedi are often accused of not understanding the movie. This can be seen as a valid statement from my point of view.


    Rian Johnson recognized that Rey defeating Kylo Ren in the Force awakens was a bad move and as mentioned previously does address it (badly). However, for the second movie in a row, Rey leaves Kylo Ren on the ground and not only that she also defeats Luke Skywalker. So yes, I do not understand how you can recognize a problem, address that problem, then double or even triple down on that same problem. Thus making it far worse than it was originally and afterwards genuinely believing nothing about your movie should have been done differently.


    This is not something that I just do not understand, I find it deeply confusing. Rey is a gifted mechanic, tells Chewie how to fly the Millennium falcon, is a crack shot with the Millennium Falcons turrets (destroys three tie fighters with one shot), can swim despite being fascinated by rain as she grew up on a desert planet, incredibly powerful with the force and unbeatable with a light saber. At best Kylo Ren represents a speed bump to Rey going into episode 9.


    As I said, a very serious problem. I refer you back to my previous statements about the writer that had difficulty with Luke dominating every scene he would be in so Luke was written out of the story but now you have the exact same issue with Rey. Again, deeply confusing.




    The very end of the movie


    At this point you could have Leia leaving Chewbacca in the cockpit after a brief exchange and present Rey with the package from Luke mentioned earlier and proceed with the discussion from the above chapter.


    More importantly, initially there was a thousand or so resistance fighters on the Raddus. Now on the Millennium Falcon there are about two or three dozen with everyone else and Luke Skywalker dead. Why do the resistance fighters look so happy? Was it that difficult to have them looking at least somber.



    The subversion of expectations


    Subverting peoples expectations in a movie can absolutely have merit and as far as The Last Jedi is concerned I do believe that Rian Johnson was heavily influenced by The Empire Strikes Back which has one of the most epic subversions of expectations ever when Vader reveals he is Lukes Father. However I do not know what the pay off is to Rians subversions. After The Empire strikes back there was enormous questions with regard to how the Luke/Vader dynamic was going to be resolved and what the rebels were going to have to do to rescue Han from Boba Fett. This created hype and interest for the next movie. I do not see any such hype resulting from Rians subversions. There seems to be nothing for the characters to resolve/overcome and only problems to correct, such as Kylo Rens Helmet. These writing decisions come across as subversions for the sake of subversions and not because there is a plan or a pay off.


    Look at Stranger Things. Here is a show with interesting characters and a compelling story that also has nostalgic elements to it. Some people in the entertainment industry look at a show like that and think “why is it successful?”. They note that it has nostalgic elements and determine “this is Stranger Things formula for success so if we make something heavy on nostalgia it will be successful”. They completely ignore the good writing, the interesting characters and compelling story. So what they end up with is movies like Pixels. Dates are a bit off but just making a point that I feel Rian Johnson missed what made The Empire Strikes Back a great movie when he put so many of his eggs in the subversion basket.





    Story, what story?


    This is something that is very important to star wars fans. Look at the rouge one and Han Solo movies. First of, that was not the names of these movies, they were called “Rouge One, A Star wars Story” and “Solo, A Star Wars Story”. Do you think the word “story” was included in these titles just because they thought it sounded good or was it because Disneys market research recognized that story was important to star wars fans. The middle ground for prequel detractors and fans is generally that it is a good story that was in parts badly executed.


    In the sequel trilogy I do not know what the story has to offer. George Lucas gave Disney an outline for the sequel trilogy which was thrown out. JJ Abrams wrote the first movie with lots of elements to unwrap and explore in episodes 8 and 9 and an outline for those movies. Rian Johnson came in and threw out the baby with the bath water. You now have good versus evil, an unbeatable hero and incompetent villains with nothing else. About as much care as you would expect from a cheaply written 1980s cash-grab action/horror movie sequel.


    Now JJ Abrams is back with the unenviable task of trying to create a cohesive and interesting story out of the trilogy in order to try and win back fans who for some reason are disinterested in an uninteresting story.




    A big mistake


    This final discussion does discuss politics a bit, which I would rather avoid but for the sake of completeness needs to be addressed.


    I will preface this by stating that there are definitely hateful bigoted people that associate themselves with Star Wars. If the Star Wars fan base was 100 Million people and 1% of them are deplorables that is 1 million deplorables, which is a lot, but 1% of any population is not a significant or defining portion of that population and a random troll on twitter with 17 followers saying deplorable things should not be held up as an example of what is wrong with star wars fans. This approach of painting with very broad brush strokes is only damaging to your own customer base.


    I am not trying to justify what some people have said. Look at the abuse Kelly Marie Tran received. This is again something that I do not understand, the inability of some people to distinguish between a character and an actor. I did not like Rose Tico, nor did I like Holdo and attacking the actresses for portraying a character the way they were written and directed (a good job done by both actresses, by the way) is baffling to me and stinks of ignorance combined with stupidity. I did not like how Luke Skywalker was written in The Last Jedi but Mark Hammills performance was the best I have ever seen from him. It is like Mark said, sometimes musicians are hired to play a piece of music they do not like. The writing is not their responsibility.


    If you are politically left leaning it does not mean you identify with antifa and Stalin, just like if you are politically right leaning it does not mean you identify with nazis and religious fundamentalists.


    If you are unhappy with the writing in a movie and you pose a question in a public forum asking “Was the writers focus on delivering a progressive socio-political message in this movie the leading cause of the lack of focus on the writing in the rest of the movie, thus causing the production of such a poor quality movie”?This does not mean you are a bigot/racist/homophobe/white supremacist, etc. It just means that in the context of The Last Jedi, you are bitterly disappointed with the movie and are trying to figure out why a movie that should have been a slam dunk was so terrible.


    Look at Robert Downey juniors interviews about the success of the marvel franchise where he states that you have to listen to the fans.


    Look at George Lucas after The Phantom Menace backlash against Jar Jar Binks. He stated he wanted to make a movie for his grandkids to enjoy. As much as some of the older generation was disappointed, this movie was a hit with the younger generation and others, so a reasonable justification. But he still listened to the fans and Jar Jar was relegated to being primarily a background character.


    Now look at the response to the backlash against The Last Jedi. No listening to what the fans had to say, a refusal to accept even the possibility that mistakes were made. Instead we get name calling, a concerted effort to find the worst of the worst statements from actual deplorables and the labels the fans unhappy with the movie are subsequently given – misogynist, racist, homophobic, unintelligent, overweight, basement dwelling manbaby that are allegedly afraid of strong women. What original trilogy fan is unsettled by strong female characters when we had princess Leia who could stand her ground and even get one over against Han Solo? What original trilogy fan is upset with non-Caucasians in important roles when we considered Lando Calrissian to be one of the coolest and suavest characters in the franchise or Mace Windu to be a complete bad-ass?


    I draw you back to my earlier statement as to how Star Wars fans can be generally forgiving but this crossed a line for a lot of people. If Lucasfilm want to try to win back these disaffected fans simply putting a large number of original trilogy characters, and probably Anakin in episode 9 might not be enough to do that without some public statement admitting that mistakes were made and, dare I say it, an apology(you don’t have to include the actual deplorables in this apology, you can even pointedly exclude them).


    Do you see that happening?



    So to people who are happy and unhappy with where the sequel trilogy is at the moment please let me know what you think. Would anything I wrote here make the movies better or worse in your eyes and why. I look forward to the discussion and I thank you for your patience if you made it this far.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 3
    • Unoriginal Unoriginal x 1
  6. Anubis78

    Anubis78 Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2018
    Posts:
    319
    Likes Received:
    21,721
    Trophy Points:
    146,467
    Credits:
    7,248
    Ratings:
    +22,257 / 0 / -1

    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2019 ---
    Well there is a lot going on here. I am trying to understand the desire to give a list of corrections you would make on a new thread when most of this fits into the hate thread pretty easy. I will disagree on some things like the phone prank. Come on there has always been some humor in SW. Over the top and drug out too long but I like it just the way it is. I don't think any of will have our prefect SW movie but we will have new ones we may like them or hate them but they are what we have.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 2
  7. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    4,809
    Likes Received:
    26,108
    Trophy Points:
    150,667
    Credits:
    19,938
    Ratings:
    +33,358 / 134 / -93
    giphy (23).gif
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 4
    • Funny Funny x 4
  8. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Posts:
    420
    Likes Received:
    692
    Trophy Points:
    4,467
    Credits:
    1,560
    Ratings:
    +1,077 / 28 / -3
    Okay... what the heck?

    I thought the consensus was that ratings like "Dislike" were supposed to be reserved for personal attacks and trolling. In my opinion, it is not fair to give negative rep just because you disagree with a post. You could give a neutral rep like "Disagree," but disliking them blocks people from posting dissenting or differing opinions.

    I actually agree with many of the points made by OP. The OP probably did post too much content, but the content is on topic and makes some fair points. I don't see anything that justifies ten downvotes.
     
    #8 SegNerd, Apr 22, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
    • Like Like x 4
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  9. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    4,809
    Likes Received:
    26,108
    Trophy Points:
    150,667
    Credits:
    19,938
    Ratings:
    +33,358 / 134 / -93
    I didn't give out those rating but I think it's safe to say those likely came because it felt like a spam post (it was originally like 5 threads) and it's all very much just the same stuff from OVER A YEAR ago just stuck into one very long rambling post.
    This, as @Anubis78 points out, should go in the Hate Thread. It basically exists for this sole reason so we don't get spammed with 5 threads about the same stuff every so often.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  10. Anubis78

    Anubis78 Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2018
    Posts:
    319
    Likes Received:
    21,721
    Trophy Points:
    146,467
    Credits:
    7,248
    Ratings:
    +22,257 / 0 / -1
    I didn't give it a rating a rating because there is not one for MEH.
     
    • Funny Funny x 6
  11. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    Posts:
    3,578
    Likes Received:
    10,026
    Trophy Points:
    91,177
    Credits:
    21,914
    Ratings:
    +14,322 / 89 / -33
    Ok....well, we're going to lock this thread as there's a specific place for it....and as the moderating staff has pointed out, it's the same stuff said the same way again, and again.

    Locked.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page