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How deeply rooted is the division of TLJ?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Sparafucile, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    It seems there are two camps.

    Camp 1 desires explanation, backstory, flashbacks, origins. They want answers or they can't move on. They need to know what drove Luke to almost kill Ben or they can't accept it. The folks in this camp don't remember what it was like growing up watching the Original Trilogy as it came out in theaters. That's all we had were questions. How many here know what it was like between ESB and ROTJ? The wait. The questions. OMG!!!! Then GL made the prequels and I think I'd rather he never answered them.

    Camp 2 desires a new forward moving story where we are anticipating payoff for everything the characters have been through during THIS STORY. Camp 2 doesn't let not knowing what happened to Ben Solo during his training detract from where Ben is going now. Camp 2 doesn't care about the path a lightsaber takes or when exactly Rey learned the Jedi Mind trick. Camp 2 accepts that Luke saw something horrible and it brought him to the edge, but just like Luke, he didn't go over.

    I guess in the age of the internet and bingeing Netflix, this is to be expected. Forgive me if I still like a little mystery and want to enjoy the ride I'm on.
     
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  2. BobPontes

    BobPontes Rebelscum

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    Generally in sync, and I would say that it ultimately boils down to this:
    Art is about embracing the artist's vision.

    You can either chose to embrace the story that is being told to you (the artist's vision) or expect the story to go the way you want it to go (your vision).
    With the former, you open your mind to be surprised, confused and go out of your comfort zone.
    With the latter, you are bound to experience the same things over and over again, and get frustrated when they don't go the way you expected.
     
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  3. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel General

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    I really want to love this film, so i hope in time i change my mind. I've watched it a few times now desperately trying to like it. Unfortunately currently i don't.

    What will it take to change my mind? Well i can't imagine ever thinking The last jedi is a good film, I just think the film has to many flaws. But if JJ manages to stick the landing in 9 tieing together the force Awaken and the Last Jedi then i will be far more accepting of the film.

    What i don't want to see is another two hours of whose gonna turn bad whose gonna turn good, they did it with Rey for one film and Kylo for 2, they can't do it again. They also have to find a way of making a Kylo vs Rey face off number 3 interesting, we've seen it twice already. And as these two are the main Hero and Villain of the trilogy it is essential you make us the audeince desprate to see tier final show down.

    I also don't want them change Reys parentage, they done it now lets move on. we have enough mis directs in The Last Jedi to last a life time.

    They alsocan't go for a straight story now, they have set up the "this isnt going to go the way you think" Theme, they now have to stick to that, if they tell us a straight up hero conquers the bad guys against the odds then that will make the last jedi feel really out of place.
     
    #23 Mosley909, Jan 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  4. Snoke33

    Snoke33 Clone Commander

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    I’m in the camp that just thought it was a poorly made movie and it did nothing to excite me besides the throne room battle. I don’t even need tons of action as long as the dialogue is good and meaningful but it wasn’t. It was cheesy and filled with jokes that didn’t move the story along.
     
    #24 Snoke33, Jan 2, 2018
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  5. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

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    Generally speaking, anytime that you reprise a film franchise after it's been on the shelf for a decade or more, it's going to cause division in the core fanbase.
    The same thing happened with Star Trek recently.
    The movies caused division, and the new series which goes the opposite direction of the films, also caused division.

    There's no real win here because once an asset has been sitting on the shelf for a while, the fanbase has quite a lot of time to sit with it and consume all of the world that material causes to exist by the nature of there being a business to run surrounding merchandise in the form of books, animations, and games; let alone fan based constructions.

    From that point on, it's basically just perpetual division - it just changes which fans in the core fanbase are upset by a direction.

    Even The Next Generation was heavily divisive at its time because it all felt wrong to a decent portion of core fans of the original series; starting with the ship just looking, in their opinion, entirely wrong.
    Nowdays, TNG is considered a given by the majority share of the fanbase and it's now things like Discovery, the new films, or the previous Enterprise series, that pick up the whipping post position (each offending a different array of fans with some overlap here and there).

    In the Star Wars culture, the PT was the TNG; causing knee jerks throughout the core fanbase. And then the ST comes along and, surprise, division once again - who would've expected that?
    [​IMG]

    Palpati - I mean, Putin.
    Putin is never surprised. Putin is so never surprised that he surprises surprise.

    And whatever Star Wars film series comes next, I'm sure it'll be divisive as well.
    [​IMG]
    Joey is always surprised. Joey is so surprised that he surprises surprise when surprise is taking a nap out of boredom.

    Cheers,
    Jayson :)
     
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  6. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel General

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    While i agree with that people that are anoid that they didn't get all the answers they wanted in one film should relax, of course some explanations would have to be left for episode 9. I would however say that this isn't what alot of people are anoid about, the more feel that anoid not that they have to wait, more that the questions that The Force Awakens made an effort to pose and get the audience to think about where ignored or brushed aside. You may disagree with that, assessment but its how a lot of people feel.

    When it comes to question id feel their is a significant different between the original trilogy and the sequel trilogy. We know the world much more then we did back when the original trilogy came out. For example you could get away with the emperor just popping up in Empire Strikes Back without the audience needing to know his backstory. You can'd do that now, we know the galaxy better, we know the history, so when you introduce a character like Snoke, who looks incredibly old is incredibly powerful and is in charge of an organisation that seems to almost have unlimited resources and resembles closely the Empire, and then kill him off after treating him as like nothing more then a plot device, then you are bound to leave a large number of long time watchers and fans of stars wars feeling mythed.
     
    #26 Mosley909, Jan 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  7. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Hey look another user account created in Dec ‘17 to bash the film.
     
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  8. Snoke33

    Snoke33 Clone Commander

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    Hey look another person who can’t handle a different opinion than their own on a forum.
     
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  9. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel General

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    I feel you are doing a bit of a disservice to a great number of people who didn't like the film. Granted their are a lot of people who just didn't like becuase it didnt' live up their favourite fan theory.

    But their are a great deal of fans(and i would include myself in this bracket) who don't have an issue with fact the film didn't meet fan theories, but more have problems with the film itself. Ie the writing, pacing, humour, connections with past films, tone......

    So it isn't as simple as embracing the story been told, i have no problem with the story thats been told, I just think in many ways Rian Johnson didn't do a very good job of telling it. You may disagree with that, and i completely accpet that , but it isn't true to just say people are just frustrated becuase the story didn't go the way they expected.
     
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  10. TheTruTru

    TheTruTru Rebelscum

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    Yup. I thought some of the fan theories were interesting, but I didn't have set expectations for what I wanted to see. I had questions from TFA that I was eager to see answered but didn't care how they were. Outside of Rey's parents, none of them were answered or even addressed (and apparently Rey's parents hasn't been answered concretely either)
     
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  11. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Really, you only post in threads with negative views of the film. Just calling it like I see it.
     
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  12. Snoke33

    Snoke33 Clone Commander

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    So if I dislike a film am I supposed to post positive stuff about it? I don’t get it. And for the record I had an old account but lost the login info and I stay away from here before a movie comes out to avoid spoilers.
     
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  13. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel General

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    well i'm only guessing but he or she probably does that becuase they have a negative opinion of the film and so is naturally drawn to those threads, which makes perfect sense.
     
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  14. Ruralfarmboy

    Ruralfarmboy Jedi General

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    ... hmmm ... I Wanted to write somethin' here ... about what ya said about 'fan expectation/theory' ... but ... Well ... some, and what SWNN did as a Poll, HERE, amongst the ... 8,000+ of us (a SMALL fraction of The Fandom... sort'a) ..70% Liked - 30% Din't (Did Not, fer Them that Don't Understand me).
    Three (3) weeks into the release and There's STILL Folk Hating on the Story.
    Clearly, a Loud Minority (crossed One Billion Dollars, This past Sunday).

    Not that them Few Folk Ain't entitled to Them's Opinion=They Are.

    But .. Here... Now (this day and the ones to Follow)

    Can't It/We just ...

    STOP !

    May the Force of Others Be With EACH and EVERY ONE of You.
     
  15. Snoke33

    Snoke33 Clone Commander

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    Thank you. I’ve tried to say this several times in other threads but people just overlook it and assume It didn’t go in the direction I liked which is not true. I just did not enjoy the film as a whole that is all. I left the theater feeling like I watched a scary movie parody of Star Wars.
     
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  16. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    What questions? It seems people that didn’t like this movie just wanted the story to revolve around answering questions about the past. I think people on these hate threads would have preferred a Prequel to TFA so they can get their answers and sleep at night.
     
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  17. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel General

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    Stop what?
     
  18. Legend Knight

    Legend Knight Force Sensitive

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    I do not think it is extreme as it seems but who knows maybe it is. As a Prequel lover all I can say to the Sequel Trilogy fans is just do not react and make yourself angry because someone online does not like the same movie as you. You will be a lot happier at night.
     
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  19. TheTruTru

    TheTruTru Rebelscum

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    We had a prequel to TFA. It's called "Return of the Jedi"
     
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  20. Bunai

    Bunai Clone Commander

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    Better storytelling and characterization beyond Kylo's emo radius.
     
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