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How deeply rooted is the division of TLJ?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Sparafucile, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

    Dec 24, 2015
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    Well, I didn't "Jedi Mind Trick myself into seeing it as anything other than a travesty", and I enjoyed the film (and I really wasn't sure that I was going to, because I don't like second acts of films, nor any second act of a trilogy that's an arc style, usually - I don't like ESB that much, nor AotC).
    I've actually written quite a lot about the greater qualities of the film, and the impressive breadth of its narrative architecture.

    I think it's a bit short-handed to just slap a sticker on this film that says that anyone who liked it was fooling themselves into not seeing what a crap film it is.
    If you didn't like it, cool, man. Sorry that you didn't like it.

    I don't agree with your assessments about its quality, but I'd rather it not be presumed that I'm delusional for liking the film. It's a film. It's not of objective reception.

    I could go on at a considerable length about what the film did very well, but that's really not the point, nor would you likely find much value in that as you've assessed the film yourself for quite some time already.

    What I will say is that I personally never felt insulted or talked down to. Every Star Wars film, in my opinion, never taught me anything I didn't already know. It wasn't about bringing up topics to me that I hadn't considered before that made Star Wars interesting. It was the juxtapositions of those topics in their contextualized narrative motifs to the others in the film that made it interesting - the image painted and how it was painted in context to the mythos of the story.

    The sociopolitical values of Star Wars have always been campy and really, (I'm looking at you Prequels) really awkwardly corny and obvious statements.
    It's not like anyone walked out of Star Wars in 1977 and had an awakening that tyranny was bad, or was spurred to discuss the subject by sampling Star Wars.

    It refrained things that were quite widely and very openly embraced already and in that time. As children, these can be relatively newer topics sometimes, but only just, because it's not like anyone is likely watching Star Wars and living in a world where these values aren't already pretty well established as normal observations.

    What Star Wars does that's interesting is take those obvious observations and weaves them into a moral, and existential narrative that leaves no ambiguity to the difference between good and evil, but never the less shoves the reality of our own struggles with these notions and our ability to fail and do less than what should be done, or even to become corrupted and embrace that corruption as right in our view even though we clearly see it as wrong and always did.

    If we think that Canto Bight is a waste of breath, I think we can be reminded of our very real Canto Bight right here on Earth that is Dubai. It may be obvious, but it's never-the-less true. We do have a tendency to allow the poor treatment of whole masses of people when there's an aesthetic and economic reward in grand splendor.

    It's not a lesson - it's a reminder.
    And it's not even the main thrust of the narrative. The main thrust of the narrative is one about how our own ideals and convictions can actually lead us to actions which are actually exactly the opposite of our ideals and convictions when we stop and reconsider the whole affair from a distance, and that we may need to do what seems like the opposite of our ideals and convictions to actually uphold our ideals and convictions.

    This is why everyone first does everything they stand for and has it all go wrong, and then does things they normally wouldn't do, but it goes right.
    Except Kylo. He does just the opposite and does good things which inch him benefits and then he does bad things which backfire after all of that - which is cool really, that it has the antagonist going against the grain of everyone else.

    Or, rather, that's not the final main thrust, but it's the main set up for the main point of the film.The final main thrust of the film is made through Rey layered over the top of that set up and conversation about our convictions. It's what moves the film from nihilism to optimistic existentialism. Through Rey's narrative, the story finale's on the subject by asserting that we are to decide what is of value, and that our convictions are just what we chose to place value in - not absolutes that we must abide by and be defined by. That what we choose to do in action is what defines our values, regardless of what we think our values are, and that by noting what our actions are, we can take control of our self and unify our values and actions through that specific choice of deciding out values by our choice of actions.

    And as I've written elsewhere, Rey's answer to where to place her values is very classic Star Wars. She chooses to place value in her friends.

    Sorry that you didn't like the film. I hope you don't think I'm a delusional idiot for liking it.
    If you do...well...oh well, I guess. I would rather folks not think that way, but I can't control that. :)

    #141 Jayson, May 19, 2019
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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