How did Ben and Lando's Fleet navigate to Exegol

I guess if S-Foils were closed it might not matter? Don't remember how Rey flew it.

Also, I guess there's a chance that it is just paneling on the wing, and not the entirety of it.

 

All the visual dictionaries from the ST are canon, the other ones no. According to the Wookiepedia.

 

I just read this again and you said "VD" for Visual Dictionary. I read, incorrectly, "DVD", which is why I mentioned that a comment on a DVD might be uncertain for canon. My bad!

 

About the TIEs, did you guys not notice that the TIEs at the beginning of the movie all had hyperdrives? That's the specific reason Poe started lightspeed skipping to try and lose them. The Falcon went hyperspace from the ice planet, trying to shake the TIEs and then you see all of the TIEs jump into hyperspace after the Falcon. Poe then shouts in surprise as he comes out of hyperspace with the TIEs still on his tail so he starts lightspeed skipping to shake them. That's visual set up for the use later, telling the audience that TIEs (at least some, if not all) have been upgraded.

It's kind of a lengthy (but still relevant) post below so you may want to hit the ejector seat at this point if you're given to avoid...

But let me just add that the spirit of these questions is based on improper contextualization of the movie(s). Questions about things like, "How did Sidious survive?" they don't need elaborate and specific answers, and the audience shouldn't be asking for them - the questions are answered in relation to proper contextualization of the source material.

What I mean is, if you watch Spiderman, how did Spiderman get his powers? Well, he was bit by a radioactive spider and because of that, now he, does whatever a spider can. On the face of it, that's ridiculous. That's no answer. How can a radioactive spider bite possibley accomplish doing that? But the audience doesn't (at least, shouldn't) care. because we properly contextualize the story: it's adapting a classic comic book. How does Spiderman actually swing straight down an avenue? To what is his webbing connected? It would have to be stright above him in the air? But, agaib, proper contextualization - it doesn't matter where his webbing is connected. The story isn't taking itself so seriously that it begs to be evaluated as though it's a reality simulator. It's wanting to convey the classic tropes involved in the source material. The only thing that the story takes seriously is the theme - what the story is wanting to say about being a person, and what it means to have power and responsibility.

Star Wars is based on old serialized movies like Flash Gordon. That's what it's adapting into a contemporary format. It's wanting to convey the classic tropes associated with that source material to invoke the feelings associated with that source material. If you watch such a series, you know what happens? The big bad guy will get defeated. Flash will fight him on a volcano and punch him, and he'll fall into the volcano. There he goes, poof into the lava. But guess what? He'll be back. And when that happens, Flash will say "I saw you fall into the lava on the Mines of Mercury!" and the explanation? "I survived! And now my thirst for revenge is stronger than ever!" or "I cannot be defeated so easily!" And that's your explanation. And we move on. Why? Because of proper contextualization.

Han Solo is a ridculous name when evaluated through the lens of narrative realism. Han Solo, get it? He's solo. He's a loner. Greedo. Get it? He's greedy. Luke Skywalker is just around the corner from Ace Goodheart. Heroes are running through an area drenched with laser fire but they don't get hit. Space forces are flying from planet to planet and if you're trying to calculate what distance is that from this, and does this time of arrival here make logical sense to that time of departure there? Then you've completely missed the point and are evaluating through an entirely improper context.

If you're forcing that improper context onto the story demanding that the story fits your improper context to be "right", then you would've never liked Star Wars to begin with. Because that's not the proper context of the type of genre it being crafted with regards to. The only thing in Star Wars that has any kind of "seriousness" to it is the theme. The surface is just Flash Gordon with modernized special effects and cinematography, the underlying themes are the part of the narrative that actually matter to the point of the story itself.

Going back to the well, check out this classic trailer:

Okay so, do you watch that trailer and force an improper contextualization onto your evaluation, looking for serious realism associated with contemporary science fiction by the likes of Chris Nolan? Is the trailer "flawed" because "That's not realistic" or "That doesn't make sense"? No? Because you're properly contextualizing what you're seeing. It's made to be that way on purpose. Star Wars is scaled back, but it is every bit that genre in its spirit while couching relevant and poignant themes within that genre artifice. You may not like Flash Gordon because you need realistic portrayals, but that doesn't make Flash Gordon "flawed" it makes it what it is. The writers have not written a "flawed" movie, they have written a movie which perfectly captures the essence of the source material.

You may like the source material, you may not like it. But to ask questions and demand logical answers be provided from a genre that isn't written to capture that spirit is like asking that jazz be played by a quartet of bass, lead and rhythm electric guitar, and drum set. And the music be written in a constant time signature, with power chords. That's not jazz, that heavy metal. All you're doing is asking that jazz lose its identity and become heavy metal. If you're criticizing jazz for not being those things you expect from heavy metal, then all you're doing is forcing a false context of evulation onto jazz. The problem isn't jazz, it's your improper contextualization.

That's pretty much all that is going on with this line of criticism. The critics are all forcing an improper context onto the film, then concluding that since jazz isn't heavy metal, the music writer has done a bad job. If you're an A+ student in my math class and I fail you because "You can't write music" does that make sense? It doesn't, and neither does any of this internet criticism. And it's not just Star Wars, it's a lot of stuff.

 

Yes i i know we all get that this is space fantasy but i feel that in universe, that is, those movies that constitute a "saga", i feel it's important to maintain a level of consistence. Those Ties at the beginning of the movie are clearly First order tie fighters, advanced design and hyperspace capable. Kylo's tie is strongly implied to have been salvaged on the death star wreckage and by the look of it a standard imperial era fighter that even in A New Hope they call it a "short range fighter" or something like that. Dont get me wrong i enjoyed the movie but those little things make me think that the creators just didn't care at that point. But on the plus side thats pretty minor and that don't distract me from the rest of the movie, i just expected more respect from what was established in the pas in this universe.

 

This. The TIEs at the beginning are FO, have hyperdrive and according to TFA, have two seats. Much different craft from the imperial era TIE that Ben flew. I'll cede the point that there could have been TIEs from the imperial era that had been upgraded, but like many things in TROS it's just another "could have been, maybe it was this, possibly could have been that..."

 

Just to be clear, that larger follow-up of mine wasn't intended to be directed at you for asking the question, or anything like that. It's a flaw of mine, but I don't like making threads, so if I have something to say I'll generally wait until I can shoehorn it into a thread and still have enough "on topic" to feel connected, if at an tangent angle. I didn't mean to direct it at anyone but just as a more, broad idea that relates to the microcosm of the thread, as it were.

I don't know where that TIE is from. I presumed Kylo had the FO pick him up and then he took a TIE to go after Rey. It never crossed my mind that he salvaged it from the Death Star wreckage but I suppose it's possible.

 

I think those of us who have been suggesting it was salvaged from the Death Star II wreckage have been doing so because of its color. It looks imperial, but it's only onscreen for a second or two so its hard to tell. It's also a dark and gloomy planet so that doesn't help. I would imagine that, had Ben contacted the FO and got a ship, that it would be something fancier than a standard TIE, but who knows?

 

Just rewatched the sequel trilogy, and wow. does it raise a lot of questions!

Regarding the original questions of the post, yes Rey was ‘mapping’ her way through the maelstrom. But judging by how Kylo makes the first trip through, you wouldn’t stand a chance unless you were an ace pilot. It reminded me of Han’s kessel run, in a way. Not sure how the ‘merchant navy’ was able to get through, never mind how a fleet of star destroyers were expected to do it!

As for the old TIE fighter that Ben arrives in, that still bugs me. It’s such a lazy way to explain his means of getting there. Why not show an old ‘Lambda’ shuttle like the one used to take out the shields in ROTJ? At least we know it has a hyperdrive!

It’s funny to read the complaints about Luke’s x-wing being space-worthy without the wing panel. I can go along with it, but the shocking part was that she’s flying a ship that sat in salt-water for YEARS! How could it possibly still fly? I mean, wasn’t it put there by Luke in the first place so that he couldn’t leave the island?

 

I just finished re-watching TROS and can say that this part also bothers me a bit.

Ok, Kylo had been to Exegol and perhaps his ace pilot skills allied with that memory can justify him getting back without a wayfinder.

The part that troubles me most though, is how on earth could the merchant/civilian navy pass through. Sure, we see the Resistance saying Rey was transmitting data from the X-Wing "guiding them through". Could that data be information directly from the wayfinder, and so it could be used by anybody to get through? That's the only explanation I have.

 

Technically, I think it was put there by Rian Johnson to provide a plausible way he could be at Crait before his little switcheroo at the end.

But, yeah, pretty counterintuitive. If Luke was really determined to stay marooned on that island (to die there), why bother leaving a salvageable means of escape? He went so far as to cut himself off from the Force. You’d figured he’d have burned his rig, like Rey did, the second he got there.

I’m still baffled why the Final Order armada needed a signal to follow to take off. It's a planet. Go . . . UP. Also, why exactly wouldn’t their shields work in atmosphere? "Magnetic crossfieIds"? Meh, not really worth the CPU cycles to noodle out.

 

Yes, talk about having a single point of failure. Again, one can argue that Palpatine's biggest weakness was his overconfidence. He never considered the possibility of the Final Order fleet being attacked on Exegol just before it could take off.

Also, I understand the civilian fleet was enormous. Still, those were what? Thousands of new generation Star Destroyers? Even with no shields, their firepower and the number of Tie fighters would be through the roof. It seemed like the battle took 10 minutes tops.

I know the movie couldn't have 4 hours, but Rogue One had less runtime than TROS and the space and ground battles there were amazing, where here... it felt like a quick raid that destroyed thousands of new generation star destroyers because they were sitting ducks without their shields?

I didn't like that battle part, so I just try to focus on what's happening on the ground with Rey, Ben and Palpatine, which I found way more interesting. That said, I liked the performances of everyone in both the air and "ground" battles, it's just the combat itself didn't make any sense to me.

 

If I understood right, those mini-deathstar lasers they all had were big instant kill switches. Blow them up and the destroyer goes too. Without the shields, they couldn’t do anything about it. They all came factory built with an outward facing self-destruct button . . . a fatal flaw (it’s like poetry or whatever).

Yeah, I didn’t find the sequence particularly compelling either. I usually watch the ROTJ finale skipping over the Ewok bits. So maybe something similar here.

Super hammy to me. That’s a silly gripe to make about Star Wars, I know. But those scenes make me feel embarrassed to watch.

Yeah, seemed like Terrio just wrote in the script ‘…and then space battle stuff happens - you know the kind’ and moved on.

 

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