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How did Luke get so good with a saber?

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by Cole, Mar 24, 2015.

  1. Cole

    Cole Force Sensitive

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    Stop me if this has been discussed already! But this is something that I wondered about a lot as a kid.
    Obiwan showed Luke how to deflect bolts from a remote. We didn't see Yoda show Luke anything about combat...except for flips and levitation and vine swinging. So how did Luke get good enough to score a hit on Vader in Cloud City and to defeat Vader on Death Star II. Did he watch a lot of Youtube videos on the Holonet? Did he find a swordmaster to teach him? Does he actually suck with a saber and Vader just let him win? And if that's true...will he still suck with a saber in TFA? Maybe ust go au natural, Yoda style? Or are you automatically good with a saber if you're strong in the Force? Like how Spiderman was instantly good at fighting once he got his spider-sense (ultra-fast reflexes)

    ...not sure where this goes, so I put it in OT.
     
    #1 Cole, Mar 24, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2015
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  2. Darth Jason 141

    Darth Jason 141 Rebel Commander

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    I still believe Luke is much more powerful and in tune with the Force then anybody.(Yeah,I know,Anakin is the Chosen One,which I think Luke was) and it's natural once he was taught by Yoda and Obiwan certain lessons.
     
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  3. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I luke will be very skilled with his lightsaber, no doubt a stunt double will see to that.
     
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  4. Talon Karrde

    Talon Karrde Rebel Official

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    It's an issue I've had personally with all six films, really. For a group of mystical warriors that are based on Japanese Samurai, there's no kata forms, no sparring, and actual combat styles had to be retconned. And frankly, there's this underlying thought through the films that force power is directly reflected in how good you are with the lightsaber. This is kinda where-logically-the Star Wars presented on film begins to break down, at least for me. This is one of the areas that having an EU, or expanded canon as it could be considered now, really helps in trying to fill in the blanks.
    But film wise, there is a lot of plot holes in Luke's Jedi training. Not the least of which is not returning to master Yoda for an entire year to train more. And when he left Dagobah in ESB, he's told he needs to stay and finish the training, which btw since this is concurrent with the falcon chase Luke could only have trained with master Yoda for maybe a week. Tops. Yet when he does return, he's suddenly at the doorstep of becoming a Jedi Knight.
    Holy Wow! And Anakin was a padawan for how many years again!?

    Maybe he was holding him back..LOL
    We're pretty much left to ourselves to figure out how Luke learns the lightsaber. There are style cues of his progression within the movies: Luke's attire is progressing from white to black, akin to the belt system in martial arts. Luke goes from favoring guns in ANH, to mixing it up in ESB, to exclusively wielding the lightsaber in ROTJ. But that's really all we get. Milestones. Not the journey in between.

    2017 Addendum: It's interesting to read this again after ~28 months and after TFA. It serves as a snapshot of what the bleeding edge of the fandom was thinking prior to the release of that film, particularly in reference to issues of jedi training and whatnot. Sadly it does kinda show that the "years of training=jmt" is an emotional construct based exclusively off of knee-jerk responses to TFA.. and that one does have to fill in the blanks with external sources and theory to explain a great deal of the Jedi training of both Luke and Anakin.. not out of the ballpark of what we have had to do with Rey.
     
    #4 Talon Karrde, Mar 26, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
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  5. Darby

    Darby Rebel Official

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    Luke probably self trained during the three years between ANH and ESB. In the Marvel series, there is a teaser of a box marked "For Luke" in Obi Wan's home back on Tatooine. We can only speculate at this point, but I'm assuming it contains information, instructions, possibly holocrons, etc. on Force use, lightsaber training and construction and what not. As for everything else, I agree with Talon ^^^. The logic kind of breaks down.
     
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  6. Mazlow01

    Mazlow01 Rebel General

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    In the novelization Yoda teaches him lightsaber techniques. Or at least some. I believe they wanted to show it in the film but they didn't have the technical ability.
     
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  7. WedgeSalad

    WedgeSalad Rebel General

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    This combined with Luke's "self-help" approach in Heir to the Jedi make me confident in the "new" canon creators' ability to identify the plot holes we've all come to know and love, and attempt to patch them as best as they can.
     
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  8. Darby

    Darby Rebel Official

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    Lightsaber battles seemed much more elegant in the PT. I've always thought they did this intentionally. In the OT we've got elderly Obi Wan, Vader was half machine (those cybernetics must weigh a ton) and a primarily self trained Luke.
     
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  9. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Some stuff happens off camera. Lets face it. I always thought of Luke's time with Yoda to be significant. Second there are 2 branches of thought on lightsabre skill. Training like any martial art and secondly "following the force" being directed by it.

    Luke was naturally fit. Trained himself somewhat, trained with Yoda and was guided by the force. The last probably being the most important.

    That said. I never thought Luke was that good at sabre combat. Especially compared to what you see in the prequels. Don't get me wrong I like the OT fights but they are tame and dated. Hence the classic Lucas Retcon the fights in the OT were inexperienced boys and old men.
     
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  10. Ziyos

    Ziyos Rebel Trooper

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    honestly luke sucked at lightsaber fighting. i never understood why people called him the most powerful jedi. in my opinion he is one of the weakest. he actually sucks so much he is way weaker than padawans.
     
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  11. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    What makes you say that?
     
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  12. Ziyos

    Ziyos Rebel Trooper

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    there are enough examples of how badass other jedi are fighting.
    considering how short lukes training was its no surprise though, i guess.
     
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  13. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    Hm... Okay.

    To me, the answer is simply because Lucas changed how lightsaber dueling worked. They did with what they had in the OT, and by the time the PT came around, there had been plenty of advancements in technology and movies had gotten more intense fight choreography, so it's only natural the PT would change they way we see duels.

    If the PT was made closer (no more than ten years) to the OT, then the choreography would have been more similar, and vice versa.

    I agree that Luke's short time of training didn't help him in saber combat, but he held his own against Vader, and he had plenty of training (both before his conversion to mostly machine and after).
     
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  14. Ziyos

    Ziyos Rebel Trooper

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    totally agree with that. the movies had to use the possibilies that were given at the time they were made. maybe lucas even wanted it like it were in the OT and only changed it in the PT to make it more dramatical and also get more casual viewers and non star wars fans into the cinemas.

    however, if you look at it as one story, rather than several movies, luke seems weak compared to other jedi and sith.
     
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  15. Stormagadon

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    Fair point, and I think that's mainly due to the little amount of Luke's training, and the real time that passed between making the movies. As I stated before, if the trilogies were made closer together, I'm sure it would feel more cohesive.
     
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  16. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    I think because he was virtually the only hope left, the force channeled itself through Luke and guided him, he progressed much faster than a normal Jedi. Just look at Yoda's eyes when Luke attempts to lift the X-Wing in Empire, it's as if he's never seen such potential before.

    I view his lightsaber battle against Vader as an act of almost pure intuition, Obi Wan and Yoda could sense that the force was his guardian angel, that's why they didn't put up much of a debate before he went to Bespin.
     
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  17. Mazlow01

    Mazlow01 Rebel General

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    I read somewhere that Mark Hamill and the Stunt director for ESB wanted to speed up the fights and make them more aggressive but GL wanted them slower and more like the lightsabers were heavy. No idea why or where I read that though. Damn memory is going as I age.
     
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  18. PoeReyMi

    PoeReyMi Rebel General

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    He only beat Vader once he used his anger to beat him. He channeled his anger like a Dark Side user for a brief period and then snapped out of it when he saw Vader's mechanical hand just like his. In ESB it seemed like Vader was just toying with him and going easy on him until a certain point (when Vader starts grunting). Then Vader turns it on and beats an overmatched Luke. But the point is Vader is beyond his physical peak and Luke is in his physical prime. Vader is more machine than man and Luke is man in ESB. Yet Vader still beats him.

    Then Luke has clearly undergone some serious training as he is a completely different character in ROTJ. He is calm, at peace, and lets the force flow through him. That, combined with his anger, allows him to beat Vader in the last duel.
     
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  19. Darth Bals

    Darth Bals Rebel Commander

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    This is how I see it as well!!! Vader in the ESB saber scene doesn't want Luke to be to damaged before being frozen and shipped to the emperor. So he took it easy on him for sure, making Luke look more skilled than he really was. Also, perhaps beginners luck and DNA.
     
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  20. alex

    alex Rebel Official

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    Great point, before lifting an x-wing, luke had only lifted a lightsaber.
     
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