1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

How did Luke get so good with a saber?

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by Cole, Mar 24, 2015.

  1. Cole

    Cole Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Posts:
    1,243
    Likes Received:
    4,100
    Trophy Points:
    13,807
    Credits:
    5,308
    Ratings:
    +5,516 / 125 / -33
    Stop me if this has been discussed already! But this is something that I wondered about a lot as a kid.
    Obiwan showed Luke how to deflect bolts from a remote. We didn't see Yoda show Luke anything about combat...except for flips and levitation and vine swinging. So how did Luke get good enough to score a hit on Vader in Cloud City and to defeat Vader on Death Star II. Did he watch a lot of Youtube videos on the Holonet? Did he find a swordmaster to teach him? Does he actually suck with a saber and Vader just let him win? And if that's true...will he still suck with a saber in TFA? Maybe ust go au natural, Yoda style? Or are you automatically good with a saber if you're strong in the Force? Like how Spiderman was instantly good at fighting once he got his spider-sense (ultra-fast reflexes)

    ...not sure where this goes, so I put it in OT.
     
    #1 Cole, Mar 24, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2015
    • Like Like x 5
    • Wise Wise x 3
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  2. Darth Jason 141

    Darth Jason 141 Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2015
    Posts:
    269
    Likes Received:
    546
    Trophy Points:
    2,572
    Credits:
    1,537
    Ratings:
    +732 / 8 / -1
    I still believe Luke is much more powerful and in tune with the Force then anybody.(Yeah,I know,Anakin is the Chosen One,which I think Luke was) and it's natural once he was taught by Yoda and Obiwan certain lessons.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Wise Wise x 1
  3. Grand Master Galen Marek

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Posts:
    21,472
    Likes Received:
    101,298
    Trophy Points:
    176,317
    Credits:
    46,887
    Ratings:
    +115,067 / 340 / -131
    I luke will be very skilled with his lightsaber, no doubt a stunt double will see to that.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. Talon Karrde

    Talon Karrde Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Posts:
    969
    Likes Received:
    1,706
    Trophy Points:
    7,592
    Credits:
    3,873
    Ratings:
    +2,490 / 69 / -31
    It's an issue I've had personally with all six films, really. For a group of mystical warriors that are based on Japanese Samurai, there's no kata forms, no sparring, and actual combat styles had to be retconned. And frankly, there's this underlying thought through the films that force power is directly reflected in how good you are with the lightsaber. This is kinda where-logically-the Star Wars presented on film begins to break down, at least for me. This is one of the areas that having an EU, or expanded canon as it could be considered now, really helps in trying to fill in the blanks.
    But film wise, there is a lot of plot holes in Luke's Jedi training. Not the least of which is not returning to master Yoda for an entire year to train more. And when he left Dagobah in ESB, he's told he needs to stay and finish the training, which btw since this is concurrent with the falcon chase Luke could only have trained with master Yoda for maybe a week. Tops. Yet when he does return, he's suddenly at the doorstep of becoming a Jedi Knight.
    Holy Wow! And Anakin was a padawan for how many years again!?

    Maybe he was holding him back..LOL
    We're pretty much left to ourselves to figure out how Luke learns the lightsaber. There are style cues of his progression within the movies: Luke's attire is progressing from white to black, akin to the belt system in martial arts. Luke goes from favoring guns in ANH, to mixing it up in ESB, to exclusively wielding the lightsaber in ROTJ. But that's really all we get. Milestones. Not the journey in between.

    2017 Addendum: It's interesting to read this again after ~28 months and after TFA. It serves as a snapshot of what the bleeding edge of the fandom was thinking prior to the release of that film, particularly in reference to issues of jedi training and whatnot. Sadly it does kinda show that the "years of training=jmt" is an emotional construct based exclusively off of knee-jerk responses to TFA.. and that one does have to fill in the blanks with external sources and theory to explain a great deal of the Jedi training of both Luke and Anakin.. not out of the ballpark of what we have had to do with Rey.
     
    #4 Talon Karrde, Mar 26, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
    • Like Like x 4
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  5. Darby

    Darby Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Posts:
    464
    Likes Received:
    1,379
    Trophy Points:
    7,562
    Credits:
    8,424
    Ratings:
    +1,751 / 15 / -2
    Luke probably self trained during the three years between ANH and ESB. In the Marvel series, there is a teaser of a box marked "For Luke" in Obi Wan's home back on Tatooine. We can only speculate at this point, but I'm assuming it contains information, instructions, possibly holocrons, etc. on Force use, lightsaber training and construction and what not. As for everything else, I agree with Talon ^^^. The logic kind of breaks down.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  6. Mazlow01

    Mazlow01 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Posts:
    363
    Likes Received:
    494
    Trophy Points:
    3,527
    Credits:
    1,218
    Ratings:
    +884 / 27 / -13
    In the novelization Yoda teaches him lightsaber techniques. Or at least some. I believe they wanted to show it in the film but they didn't have the technical ability.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Informative Informative x 4
  7. WedgeSalad

    WedgeSalad Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Posts:
    290
    Likes Received:
    494
    Trophy Points:
    4,307
    Credits:
    1,185
    Ratings:
    +807 / 7 / -1
    This combined with Luke's "self-help" approach in Heir to the Jedi make me confident in the "new" canon creators' ability to identify the plot holes we've all come to know and love, and attempt to patch them as best as they can.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  8. Darby

    Darby Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Posts:
    464
    Likes Received:
    1,379
    Trophy Points:
    7,562
    Credits:
    8,424
    Ratings:
    +1,751 / 15 / -2
    Lightsaber battles seemed much more elegant in the PT. I've always thought they did this intentionally. In the OT we've got elderly Obi Wan, Vader was half machine (those cybernetics must weigh a ton) and a primarily self trained Luke.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  9. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Posts:
    4,391
    Likes Received:
    5,585
    Trophy Points:
    16,317
    Credits:
    6,685
    Ratings:
    +9,458 / 246 / -104
    Some stuff happens off camera. Lets face it. I always thought of Luke's time with Yoda to be significant. Second there are 2 branches of thought on lightsabre skill. Training like any martial art and secondly "following the force" being directed by it.

    Luke was naturally fit. Trained himself somewhat, trained with Yoda and was guided by the force. The last probably being the most important.

    That said. I never thought Luke was that good at sabre combat. Especially compared to what you see in the prequels. Don't get me wrong I like the OT fights but they are tame and dated. Hence the classic Lucas Retcon the fights in the OT were inexperienced boys and old men.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  10. Ziyos

    Ziyos Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Posts:
    97
    Likes Received:
    172
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Credits:
    739
    Ratings:
    +249 / 6 / -7
    honestly luke sucked at lightsaber fighting. i never understood why people called him the most powerful jedi. in my opinion he is one of the weakest. he actually sucks so much he is way weaker than padawans.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Pessimistic Pessimistic x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  11. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Posts:
    2,778
    Likes Received:
    29,648
    Trophy Points:
    154,567
    Credits:
    3,804
    Ratings:
    +32,455 / 17 / -6
    What makes you say that?
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Ziyos

    Ziyos Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Posts:
    97
    Likes Received:
    172
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Credits:
    739
    Ratings:
    +249 / 6 / -7
    there are enough examples of how badass other jedi are fighting.
    considering how short lukes training was its no surprise though, i guess.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  13. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Posts:
    2,778
    Likes Received:
    29,648
    Trophy Points:
    154,567
    Credits:
    3,804
    Ratings:
    +32,455 / 17 / -6
    Hm... Okay.

    To me, the answer is simply because Lucas changed how lightsaber dueling worked. They did with what they had in the OT, and by the time the PT came around, there had been plenty of advancements in technology and movies had gotten more intense fight choreography, so it's only natural the PT would change they way we see duels.

    If the PT was made closer (no more than ten years) to the OT, then the choreography would have been more similar, and vice versa.

    I agree that Luke's short time of training didn't help him in saber combat, but he held his own against Vader, and he had plenty of training (both before his conversion to mostly machine and after).
     
    • Like Like x 5
  14. Ziyos

    Ziyos Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Posts:
    97
    Likes Received:
    172
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Credits:
    739
    Ratings:
    +249 / 6 / -7
    totally agree with that. the movies had to use the possibilies that were given at the time they were made. maybe lucas even wanted it like it were in the OT and only changed it in the PT to make it more dramatical and also get more casual viewers and non star wars fans into the cinemas.

    however, if you look at it as one story, rather than several movies, luke seems weak compared to other jedi and sith.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Posts:
    2,778
    Likes Received:
    29,648
    Trophy Points:
    154,567
    Credits:
    3,804
    Ratings:
    +32,455 / 17 / -6
    Fair point, and I think that's mainly due to the little amount of Luke's training, and the real time that passed between making the movies. As I stated before, if the trilogies were made closer together, I'm sure it would feel more cohesive.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Posts:
    2,445
    Likes Received:
    4,558
    Trophy Points:
    14,367
    Credits:
    8,581
    Ratings:
    +7,942 / 707 / -484
    I think because he was virtually the only hope left, the force channeled itself through Luke and guided him, he progressed much faster than a normal Jedi. Just look at Yoda's eyes when Luke attempts to lift the X-Wing in Empire, it's as if he's never seen such potential before.

    I view his lightsaber battle against Vader as an act of almost pure intuition, Obi Wan and Yoda could sense that the force was his guardian angel, that's why they didn't put up much of a debate before he went to Bespin.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  17. Mazlow01

    Mazlow01 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Posts:
    363
    Likes Received:
    494
    Trophy Points:
    3,527
    Credits:
    1,218
    Ratings:
    +884 / 27 / -13
    I read somewhere that Mark Hamill and the Stunt director for ESB wanted to speed up the fights and make them more aggressive but GL wanted them slower and more like the lightsabers were heavy. No idea why or where I read that though. Damn memory is going as I age.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  18. PoeReyMi

    PoeReyMi Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
    Posts:
    707
    Likes Received:
    1,051
    Trophy Points:
    4,867
    Credits:
    1,771
    Ratings:
    +1,608 / 26 / -9
    He only beat Vader once he used his anger to beat him. He channeled his anger like a Dark Side user for a brief period and then snapped out of it when he saw Vader's mechanical hand just like his. In ESB it seemed like Vader was just toying with him and going easy on him until a certain point (when Vader starts grunting). Then Vader turns it on and beats an overmatched Luke. But the point is Vader is beyond his physical peak and Luke is in his physical prime. Vader is more machine than man and Luke is man in ESB. Yet Vader still beats him.

    Then Luke has clearly undergone some serious training as he is a completely different character in ROTJ. He is calm, at peace, and lets the force flow through him. That, combined with his anger, allows him to beat Vader in the last duel.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Wise Wise x 4
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  19. Darth Bals

    Darth Bals Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    Posts:
    75
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    2,887
    Credits:
    1,728
    Ratings:
    +214 / 5 / -0
    This is how I see it as well!!! Vader in the ESB saber scene doesn't want Luke to be to damaged before being frozen and shipped to the emperor. So he took it easy on him for sure, making Luke look more skilled than he really was. Also, perhaps beginners luck and DNA.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. alex

    alex Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Posts:
    1,378
    Likes Received:
    1,922
    Trophy Points:
    8,097
    Credits:
    3,236
    Ratings:
    +2,985 / 56 / -29
    Great point, before lifting an x-wing, luke had only lifted a lightsaber.
     
    • Like Like x 4
Loading...

Share This Page