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How do we know Palpatine is really dead?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by SegNerd, May 24, 2020.

  1. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Sith in the North
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    Palpatine's primary game was always manipulation, and the question this thread poses shows just how well he played the game.

    He was feared and powerful enough in his reign as Emperor that when he actually did perish on the second Death Star there was enough doubt, even in the higher ranks of the remnants of the Empire, that it didn't matter if he died or not. (Some recent book series have explored this a little more in detail, IIRC Aftermath as well as the Alphabet Squadron series.) So at that point, and especially when he comes back in TROS, it really no longer matter whether he lives or dies. His followers will still believe he is alive, or able to come back if he wishes. And his enemies will still be fearful of the same.

    Mental manipulation at its finest.
     
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  2. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Rebel Commander

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    No one's ever really gone..;)

    @Martoto ....it's like the Force healing, isn't it - not 'canon' outside the EU, suddenly makes an appearance here as a 'get out of killing your unarmed enemy free card' clause for Rey, and a 'now we've got Rey, what do we do with Ben Solo; oh, he can be her life force donor' answer in TROS.

    I have this weird image in my head of Abrams, Terrio and some of DLF's movers and shakers sitting around in a dark room, wind howling outside, stirring a cauldron and throwing plot ingredients into it to see what flavour the final result is...creepy.:confused::eek:
     
    #202 madcatwoman17, Jul 1, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
  3. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Sith in the North
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  4. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    The new Star Wars trilogy convinced me that Palpatine is as eternal as Ben, Yoda & Qui Gon.

    The Sith just do it differently than the Jedi. They like having bodies when they come back.

    And Palpatine gives zero rips about being exploded, so....
    That, and everyone with a rank inside the Empire knew what happened to Bevel Lemelisk after Luke karked the first Death Star.


    "During production [of the 2nd Death Star], Lemelisk was executed by Palpatine a further six times[1] whenever the Emperor perceived any slowness or lack of enthusiasm from the architect.[25] Using the dark side of the Force, Palpatine shuttled Lemelisk's consciousness through six new clones,[1] testing the process to see if he himself would be able to survive it one day.[25] Lemelisk's deaths took on a different form each time—he was thrown out of an airlock, lowered into a vat of molten copper, and trapped in a vault with clouds of acid mist, amongst a variety of other methods of execution.[3]"
     
    #204 Lord of the Rens, Jul 1, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
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  5. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Rebel Commander

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    That's...creative.
     
  6. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    (pwned)Omitted details of Bevel's first death & the horror of experiencing the memory after being transferred to a new body, because this is a family forum.(pwned)
     
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  7. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    I’d love to see a show with Palpatine and Vader, Admiral Thrawn where their side is portrait as the good guys defeating the Jedi and remnants of the republic. Would also be nice to see Vader trying to learn how to bring PADEME back.
     
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  8. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    Nobody's ever really gone. Except this guy, sort of.

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Rebel Commander

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    The ancestor of Greedo, methinks.
     
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  10. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    @Martoto - LOTL = 2nd best TV production in the history of all things sci-fi, just behind the Star Wars Holiday Special w/ special guest & owner of the greatest real life Star Wars name, Bea Ar-thur.

    :DYou misspelled Bossk.:D
     
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  11. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Most of the "clever dick"s who I rub elbows with are fully aware that the cloning of force sensitives has always been known as such rubbish inside canon.... that Hayden Blackman literally said "Kark it, what if The Force was Unleashed ?!" - and Starkiller was born.
     
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  12. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Rebel Commander

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    Whooops!
     
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  13. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I know this topic is kinda old, but...

    Does it matter if Palpatine is really dead?

    His part in this trilogy is clearly over, and the Resistance has won. Stability will begin to return to the galaxy... at least for some time, before the next big conflict arises.

    If the "possession theory" is correct (and even if some EU source or out of universe interview claims it isn't, future movies could override that anyway), Palpatine is perhaps not only Palpatine but all the sith. The idea that there could be a living embodiment of the snowballing effect of each of the sith isn't a terrible template for a Star Wars villain, and having that return at some point in the future could still be interesting. Whether that manifests itself as Palpatine again or some new body is definitely up for debate though.
     
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  14. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Rebel Commander

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    I thought, on hearing Palpatine was returning, that it would be as a 'Force ghost', as I've said before. So there is always the possibility of him returning as such.

    I do think however, that it showed a strong lack of creative storytelling on DLF's part. Instead of something new they just brought back a long dead 'baddie'...and his ultimate victory rendered everything the Skywalkers did as pointless. Sad ending for Lucas's First Family.
     
  15. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    What does that even mean?
     
  16. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    I’m not a huge fan how they decided to execute Palp’s return, but I do love the creative nature of the concept. TROS elevates ‘Sidious’ beyond being a singular figure. He’s basically the darkside incarnate now - a vile spirit of hatred literally passed on over the ages from one generation to the next. He’s not really a person. He’s a malevolent force that represents malice and despair. You can’t just throw that down an elevator shaft or blow it up. It exists above flesh and bone.

    It’s similar to what was done with the Skywalkers. What that name represents is more than just a family line, but an identity aligned with virtue and hope and heroism. That’s also something that transcends conventional mortality. You can’t kill it. If you strike it down, it will only become more powerful.

    I get the criticism of dusting off an old “baddie” as ‘uncreative’, but the premise behind it is actually pretty inventive. They’re taking these iconic personas, that characterize key aspects of the series, and expanding them to a vastly broader scope: manifestations of the struggle between darkness and light itself. Maybe it’s just me, but I think that’s at least a cool idea.
     
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  17. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Rhett Clone FAIL 1.jpg
    Before there was SNOKE, there was fire on Kamino.... ​
    Rhett Clone 3.png

    Essence preservation/ transfer has always been the magnum opus of a Sith Master.... as noted above it was well understood that cloning could not be done

    and the OG riddle solving was done in the most twisted of manners.... from the most obscure of sources.... until Starkiller 2.0 was revealed.
    Rhett Clone 1.jpg
    The Force Unleashed also paved the way for Palpatine's return in The Last Sequel Film.​
     
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  18. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Rebel Commander

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    Problem is regarding the 'Skywalker' name, is that Anakin, the most 'famous' of the Skywalkers, was also Darth Vader, 'the most hated man in the galaxy'. Lucas originally created SW as a family saga, a kind of Shakespearian tragedy, where the ties of blood lay at the heart of the story - it led Luke to Leia, it drove Anakin to kill his master, it also was why Luke refused to kill his father even when urged to do so by two powerful Jedi. The name 'Skywalker' was associated with darkness as well as light. the lightsabre Rey had to 'earn' was also the one Anakin used to kill children. 'Skywalker' wasn't a 'title' - it was the name of a family, the most famous in the galaxy. Now extinct.
    As for 'Sidious' being a name for evil incarnate, maybe that would work, but as you said, not how it was executed. Force ghost Palps - yes. 'Rotting clone Palps - ridiculous.

    What is truly ironic is that in a number of interviews the director and writer of TROS hinted very strongly that Ben Solo's blood relation to Darth Vader was one of the reasons he 'fell'...to quote Han Solo in TFA - same director as TROS - 'there was always too much Vader in him.' If that's the case the shiny new 'Skywalker' is also fated to 'fall', because some bright cove decided to make her a Palpatine. Rey will NEVER escape her blood link to Palps. Which they created.
     
  19. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    And, in the end, Darth Vader was defeated by Anakin Skywalker. He ceased to be ‘Skywalker’ when he committed himself to evil and regained that self when he conquered that evil. I understand if the pushback to that is “well, how convenient”, but that really is the argument the story itself is projecting.
    That’s not really the way I see it or have ever seen it. It’s a generational tale. The Empire versus the Rebellion is the younger generation grappling with the misdeeds of the previous. In the case of Luke and Vader, it’s made literal. It’s a son actually having to deal with the ‘sins of the father’ and finding absolution in it. To me, that’s the importance of their relation. Not blood, but legacy. Making a better tomorrow from a tainted yesterday.
    It did? How so?
    It did? How so?
    Compassion and understanding led Luke to spare his father. His unwavering faith in the good person he believed still existed. He retained his hope when all others had lost theirs. Not blood, but humanity. Seeing a person where others only saw a monster.
    The name is associated with light prevailing over that darkness. That’s its significance. Darkness will always exist. It will always aim to consume and dominate. But no matter how bleak things may appear, the light will always persist. It might dim, but never truly extinguish. The Skywalkers represent that.
    You’re right. It “wasn’t a ‘title’”. And now it is. It’s become more than it was before. It’s evolved. And because of that, will never be extinct.

    When in doubt, find the bright side. It isn’t worth dwelling on the negative. The only one who loses is you :)
     
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  20. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Rebel Commander

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    I'd like to....but Kylo was my favourite SW character...and I loved the saga for the Skywalker/Solo family. So, for me. there isn't a 'bright side.' It doesn't help that post TROS I absolutely can't stand Rey!
     
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