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How do we know Palpatine is really dead?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by SegNerd, May 24, 2020.

  1. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Jedi Commander

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    Becuz we see him 'splode

    But actually, because to do it once borders on lazy, but to do it twice would be totally without excuse.
     
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  2. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    TROS redefined Palpatine as this sort of ‘Legion’ character. He’s literally the sum of all Sith that came before. While the Jedi represent selflessness and aim to achieve immortality through embracing death, the Sith are selfish and aim to achieve it through rejecting death. It’s a spiritual versus physical dichotomy - non-attachment versus attachment.

    Canonically, the Darth Momin character cheated death by possessing an object. He couldn’t let go of the material world and his spirit lingered on tethered to his earthly obsessions. A lot of people theorized Palpatine’s return in EPIX would go this route - a Sith haunting. The hateful echo of darkness lay in wait for a new host to resurrect the shadow of malevolence.

    TROS literalized that metaphor, but I don’t see why it couldn’t still be employed abstractly: the spirit of the Sith, haunting that ruined temple on Exegol, waiting for some lost and angry soul to inevitably start the cycle of violence over again.

    Yeah, it’s derivative and tropey, but . . . you know . . . Star Wars.
     
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  3. GingerByte

    GingerByte Jedi General

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    Because we saw his last remaining body get disintegrated, he couldn't possess Rey, and Abrams, the only Star Wars writer uncreative enough to bring him back to life says he's dead. Also, it's the last chapter in the whole story.
     
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  4. Meister Yoda

    Meister Yoda Your Little Green Friend

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    There was force projection in TROS?
     
  5. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    I enjoy all the slants about laziness and lacking creativity, because it means I can look forward to some really amazing works from this community.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  6. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash
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    If the idea in TROS was that Palpatine had the clone lab on Exegol set up and staffed with Sith worshipping lackeys as a contingency plan, and that he was able to project his spirit to this lab when he blew up at the bottom of that elevator shaft at the end of ROTJ, then it seems like once his clone body and the entire Exegol facility was destroyed at the end of TROS, that was it for the crusty old bastid.

    From a storytelling perspective, they were already kind of pushing it with his having survived ROTJ. I sincerely hope that they don't try to flog his dead bones yet again in a future movie.
     
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  7. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    You know, most crazy people have a certain amount of paranoia, he may have a contingency plan for his contingency plan.
     
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  8. Veronica

    Veronica Rebelscum

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    I don't think the Sith are gone. As a brilliant poster on here mentioned. All the Sith are, are disgruntled Jedi who hate the notion of 'peace, order and good government'. They believe in might is right and unlimited thirst for power. That trait is never, ever going to go away. Even if Rey reforms the Jedi and inserts some good old practicality. There will be some who won't buy it, at least not for a long time. Also I am guessing that the Sith Eternal are still out there somewhere. Palpy was a master strategist, there was no way he would have kept all his eggs in one basket. I am sure there are other locations in the galaxy where they are still hiding and biding their time.
     
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  9. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Seconded (or thirded, I guess?). The Sith represent the darkside. The darkside is the shadow cast by the light of the Force. As long as one exists, the other will too. They’re inseparable elements of the same whole.

    The darkside symbolizes our baser human tendencies: hatred and greed. Those impulses will also always exist. Even if the Palpatine character is dead, the wretched thing he stood for won’t ever die.

    A hateful and greedy Force sensitive person will inevitably discover that power and corrupt it. Whether they specifically identify as “Sith” or not, they’ll naturally perpetuate that same ideology and spread its influence until challenged.

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . I think.
     
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  10. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    This is every force ability.
    Except for the ones you like, those get a free pass.

    Using the force to pull a lightsaber to you to get out of an inescapable situation? Kosher.
    Using the force to literally manifest as a ghost....totally on point.
    Using the force for mind control purposes? Seems legit.
    Using the force to project an avatar of yourself? PREPOSTEROUS!

    Arbitrary line on force powers is arbitrary
     
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  11. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

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    My post was not entirely serious. I do feel like it was a little bit of a cheat to just pull a new Force ability out of nowhere like that (whereas the other skills you mention are shown throughout the saga), but I just meant it as a mild and humorous jab.
     
  12. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    I just saw it as a 'Jedi Mind Trick' times a thousand. The first Force ability we were introduced to. It's a non-violent resolution based on established concepts - "knowledge and defense" and not an "attack". It's an exploded version of Luke throwing away his lightsaber in front of the Emperor. Seems fair enough to me anyhow.
     
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  13. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Okay but you do understand that all of them are shown for the first time at some point?
     
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  14. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    We're skipping over the most sensible Force power that no one ever questions why it's not just "Holdo maneuvered" everywhere by every Jedi.

    Using the Force to shoot torpedoes from your space craft and hit your target.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  15. Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi

    Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi Rebel General

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    The hard truth is that we were left MORE unsure of Palpatine’s death in Episode 9 than in Episode 6.
    In ROTJ, Palpatine was just a man, like all of us. And falling down a shaft and exploding seemed pretty final. In TROS, not only did he survive the fall, but we now know there is magic and spirits behind his survival, begging the question: ‘can magic and spirits summon him again?” To top it off, what was the one thing that Palpatine asked Rey to do? That’s right- to kill him. She did that.

    I liked TROS, but a few things were a bit sloppy in its execution, one being this Palpatine sub-plot.
     
  16. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Force Guided Missiles
     
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  17. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    What he said was “With your hatred, you will take my life. And you will ascend.” Rey (we’re supposed to assume) didn’t kill him out of hatred. She just reflected it back at him, so no problem. Palps was the instrument of his own undoing and such.

    Since we’re thinking about this anyway though. If Rey killed him in order to save everyone - a true act of defense and not actual malice, would his plan still work? “Only you have the power to save them.” Her demeanor, at that point, didn’t come off as particularly wrathful to me. Wouldn’t it be more close to self-sacrifice knowing she’d be giving up her autonomy to her granddad? That’s fairly Jedi like, yeah? Meh, clumsy movie is clumsy.
     
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  18. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    It was used in the Legends EU. Would be cool to see on the screen.
     
  19. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    I was actually joking.
    Quite honestly that would be silly watching Jedi flying around Force shooting torpedoes everywhere like Luke did.

    It's very nearing the equivalent of kids "shooting" a bow when playing, but grabbing the arrow and running up to the other kid who is their target and saying, "I HIT YOU!"

    At that point, you just kind of start sitting back and waiting for a Chess game of nothing but Queens to wrap up so you can get on with things.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  20. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Tangentially

    I always found it funny that the PT Jedi evidently aren’t too terribly keen on toting guns. But when they’re in starships, apparently, no problem. Shoot ‘em up! Shruggie Shouldersons.
     
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