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How do we know Palpatine is really dead?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by SegNerd, May 24, 2020.

  1. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    and eventually you get the argument of " I hit you"... " No you missed"... " Yes I hit you"... "noooooo"
     
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  2. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Jedi Commander

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    I've never thought that is what is happening in that scene.

    Luke is not using the Force to guide and control the torpedoes to their target - he's using the Force to 'feel' and sense for the exact right moment to launch them. The targeting computer is too slow - or rather, the pilot's reactions are too slow. Or both. They need to fire the torpedoes the moment the computer tells them, but the split second delay it takes to register it, process it and press the fire button is too long and is why they fail.

    Luke puts aside his targeting computer and instead anticipates, through the Force, the exact right moment to press that button. He's letting the Force flow through him to guide his reflexes.
     
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  3. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    I can't speak for @RoyleRancor (though I'm pretty sure he was joking), but I was saying what you're saying.

    I wrote that Luke used the Force to shoot torpedos so he could hit his target, and referred to the idea of other Jedi doing the same.
    I wasn't referring to it being literally guided.
    The pretend analogy was prefaced with, "nearing the equivalent". That is to say we're not there, but the difference is relatively teteologically irrelevant.

    In either case we're looking at Luke hitting his target as a consequence of using the Force.

    Good thing he did all that lightsaber training. ;)

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  4. Lukestarbucker

    Lukestarbucker Force Sensitive

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    I feel that bringing back Palpatine for a 2nd time after dieing twice would just get fans riled up. I, among many other people, were shocked when we saw that Palpatine had returned. I, personally, was not a fan of this resurrection, but that is just my opinion. I feel that they are moving on from Palpatine as a character. Of course we will se references in future films and whatnot. Also, I don’t think it would make sense if Palpatine returned again. But, we will see.
     
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  5. General Kenobi

    General Kenobi Rebel Commander

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    I would prefer they don't use Palpatine anymore. To me they risk it becoming a bad joke like a Scooby Doo cartoon. A new threat arises, struggles take place and in the end they pull the mask off (even if metaphorically) and it's old man Palpatine behind it again who would have gotten away with it if it weren't for those pesky resistance/rebels/good guys :p
     
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  6. Flyboy

    Flyboy Force Attuned

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    As echoed by pretty much everyone else in the thread, we don't know if he's really dead, and in my opinion he doesn't HAVE to be dead (and I mean that in the very literal sense where a fictional character never HAS TO be dead) but he should be. I had a few qualms about them bringing Palpatine back originally but now that the movie has been out for some time I've settled with the opinion that I don't really care he was brought back. I don't think it helps or hurts the character or the overall story of Star Wars, it's just another chapter, not sure a necessary one but one I don't mind. That said at a certain point enough has to be enough and I think we've reached it, bringing him back again would be parody.
     
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  7. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    That's Count Skoobi Dooku.

    scooby sith.png

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  8. Lukestarbucker

    Lukestarbucker Force Sensitive

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    Lol. Thats funny. I can imagine him saying,”twice the pride, double the fall.” Haha
     
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  9. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    Palpatine would be pretty peeved coming back a 2nd time having already died twice. ;)
    Palpatine looked like 120 years old in EP9...quite the fail for the cloners.

    Let's get serious. Palpatine was smart and cunning. His plan had a back-up so it's possible his back-up had a back-up as well.
    If Palpatine retuns let him return to as a younger version of himself at the height of his Sith powers and we all saw how he handles a lightsaber...

    Palpatine/Sidious was in power for almost 50 years. Imagine deep within the abandoned Kamino facilities a section under Sith guard guarding hundreds of Palpatine cloning tubes.
     
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  10. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

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    Is Palpatine really a clone? I have never heard of that. He cheated death, but I thought that Palpatine in IX was still original Palpatine in some form.

    I'm not sure what the status is of whether it is possible to clone Force-sensitives. The Force Unleashed said you can't do it, but then did it anyway, but then got decanonized, so... I don't know. I thought that if you did clone a Force user, the result might not be Force-sensitive (possibly what happened with Rey's father?).
     
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  11. The Last Jorgny

    The Last Jorgny Rebel Official

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    He seems to be very aware of how his encounter with Luke Skywalker went, so my guess is that the clone at least has the consciousness of the Palpatine we know. So in a sense, it is the same one, he just has a cloned body. But he is confirmed officially to be a clone, yes. The movie addresses it when the resistance talks about his return, and someone says "ancient sith magic, cloning", and the novelization expands on some of it.
     
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  12. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    BEAUMONT: “Dark science. Cloning. Secrets only the Sith knew.”

    ↓↓↓In other words↓↓↓

     
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  13. TK-1204

    TK-1204 Imperial Special Forces
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    Pulling this from the wiki,
    Most of this information was from the novelization, with the actual film itself never really giving any specific details but rather making implications regarding certain possibilities.

    So yes, he's the same Sheev, just with a different body. As to the reason why the body is falling apart, if I remember correctly it has to do with the difficulties attributed to attempting to clone Force sensitive beings. Specifically in Palpatine's case, the cloned body is described as being "imperfect" and began deteriorating when his essence entered it.
     
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  14. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Which, presumably, is why he wants Rey . . . . even though he demanded she be killed :confused:
     
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  15. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    *shrug*
    Typical Palpsy 50/50 split and win move. Kill Rey, take over Kylo through ritual. Rey kills Kylo? Cool. Take over Rey through ritual.
    When hasn't this guy been about survival of the fittest and keeping the winner?

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  16. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    That's the rub though. The only ritual condition we’re given is for the new host to kill him in hate. Right? That’s exactly why Kylo tracked him down to start with and was threatening to do. If Palps just lets it happen from the jump, then he basically gets what he wants straight away. Yeah?

    My only rationale is that he maybe wanted Kylo extra extra inky dark. That killing Rey would effectively kill the last shred of good he had or something (TLJ reprise) - making him a better fit - more leg room in there or whatever. Otherwise, it’s not very well thought out. The character’s propelling objective could have been satisfied before the movie even got started.
     
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  17. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    He only needs one. The other is a bother.
    Best man wins. Two for the price of one.
    One kills the other, he gets the winner.

    Sure he could have Kylo up front, and then still have Rey flinging around out there. For whatever reason he seemed keen on the idea of one of them dying by the hands of the other before moving on.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  18. TK-1204

    TK-1204 Imperial Special Forces
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    This is accurate. For added context: Sheev's son, Rey's father, was essentially a modified clone of some sort (He wasn't an identical clone like Boba was to Jango) who had 0 latent Force ability and was deemed something of a failure.

    So to speculate, my guess is that Palpatine used Kylo for the purpose of testing Rey's abilities in the Force before committing to using her as his new body. If Kylo killed her, she would've been viewed as unfit and easily discarded like her father.

    Of course in a stroke of sheer coincidence, turned out he didn't need either Rey or Kylo's bodies, because it turns out those two fulfilled some vague Sith prophecy about a "dyad" in the Force (two who are one, or some such thing). And by draining their life essence, he wound up absorbing Force energy capable of... influencing life (sound familiar?).
     
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  19. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    . . . . . . . . . . or Rey manages to turn Kylo and he gets neither. Go big or go home I guess.
    Just reads as a bit shabby to me. When a character operates counter to their apparent best interests, I'd prefer there be a defined ulterior motive to convey that it wasn't simply an oversight. Maybe if it was revealed he'd known about the dyad all along, that it was his plan to bring them together, I'd feel different. Kind of smacks of plot induced stupidity to me. He has both motive and opportunity, but doesn't act on it because the story demands he doesn't.
     
  20. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Same as ROTJ...which is why it's in TROS.
    In both he acts in ways that audiences have seen as foolish.

    Of course...I think that's kind of the point.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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