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How do we know Palpatine is really dead?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by SegNerd, May 24, 2020.

  1. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    No one's ever really gone....
     
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  2. Luke556

    Luke556 Clone

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    I wouldn't put it past them to revive him once again for another trilogy in the far future. Hollywood favors the safest route.

    I don't expect the timeline to go forward for quite some time now. We're talking 20-30 years from now if at all.
     
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  3. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    The only way to know if Lucasfilm wants to take the eu approach where Palpy had clones available on Byss. The only one journey to see is a movie starting from his younger years till he becomes Senator of Naboo.
     
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  4. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    [​IMG]

    Not that it isn't an interesting area.
     
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  5. StardustSoldier

    StardustSoldier Force Sensitive

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    This sums up my own feelings about it. I can definitely see why his return was controversial, although I was fine with it. Especially since he wasn't in other post-RotJ works such as The Mandalorian or The Force Awakens, and thus when he finally does return, it gives off a "one last dance" sort of feel. From a narrative standpoint it makes sense, as Trev said, to tie the three trilogies together. That, and imo there's just something fitting about him being the "final boss" of the Skywalker Saga.

    But that said, yeah, I do hope it sticks for good this time. At most I'd be fine with seeing him again in other media set prior to Episode 6 or 9, although even that I feel should be kept to a minimum. He is a great villain, but his story is told now. For everything beyond Ep. 9, I very much want to see that his evil reign was vanquished for good, and so we can see new conflicts and villains instead.
     
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  6. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    They're sniffing around a Plagueis and Palps show on D+.

    Sorry...

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  7. StardustSoldier

    StardustSoldier Force Sensitive

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    Oh well. I'll still go see it anyway 'cause it's Star Wars. :p
     
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  8. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Clone Commander

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    Palpatine's return was probably the worst part of the disaster area that was TROS.
    I thought he was going to return as a kind of Sith Force ghost. That would have been a better explanation, especially if Snoke had been his apprentice Gallus Rax and his aim in corrupting Ben Solo was to prepare him as a host for his master's dark soul. But instead they came up with this barmy idea to have him come back in the (rotting) flesh.
    Anakin threw him into a reactor for crying out loud! He's not Wolverine or Clark Kent!
     
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  9. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    The Sith are in Rey. He told her what would happen if she strikes him down and she did.
     
  10. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    I wouldn’t think so. He says “With your hatred, you will take my life. And you will ascend.” The film seems to take noticeable effort to show us she isn’t acting out of hate when she performs her live-action adaptation of ‘I’m rubber and you’re glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you’. In the end, he’s destroyed by his own hatred. Not hers.

    Maybe 'hatred' isn't really a condition and he's just mentioning it to mention it, but I sort of doubt it.
     
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  11. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    It's also a matter of the fact that she's using her power to defend herself and not to attack. Sheev just forgot to turn off his lighting like he did two times before (with Mace and with Anakin), with fatal consequences. Even if he somehow did possess her, it would be undone by the fact that she, you know, dies like a minute later. Which would make the baptism imagery in that scene stronger than it already is, although I don't think that was either Abrams or Terrio's intent - Rey, heiress to the Sith and the Palpatine bloodline dies, so that Rey Skywalker can be "born".

    To answer the thread question, it sort of explains itself when you really think about it: why would Palpatine be spending so much time in a decrepit, bloated corpse with sub-Vader survival conditions if he can easily make himself another, better body? Or when his entire plan involves Rey or Kylo Ren enacting a version of the Rule of Two on each other, and the "winner takes all" by killing Palps and being possessed by him? The whole "he just had a back-up plan" doesn't make a lot of sense when what we're seeing is his back-up plan until he learns about something that wasn't on his radar (for a change) and adjusted his plan accordingly.
     
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  12. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Official

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    The problem with that quote is the person who said it. It was a member of the resistance who just found out that Palpatine was alive. That means that he doesn't actually know how Palpatine came back and was just speculating. But people watch the scene and believe that's the explanation for Palpatine's return. That guy didn't know anything, he was just guessing.

    If JJ had actually taken the time to explain how Palpatine's soul was plugged into this new body then maybe the issue of whether or not he's really dead for realz this time could have been addressed in the movie. But, since it was left so vague, there's nothing to say that Palpatine couldn't come back again. All we saw was Palpatine's body get disintegrated. That's presumably what happened to his body on the second Death Star. There's nothing in the movie to indicate that this death is permanent. It should have been a plot point for Rey. Rey should have asked "If we destroy him, what's to stop him from returning again?". And Luke, Leia, Yoda or someone else, maybe even Ben Solo, could tell her to do X, Y or Z to accomplish that. But no, we got a character that's been dead for 30+ years reintroduced without explanation and killed without any assurance that he won't be back again, and again and again. If you want to take it even further, there's nothing to stop Maul or Dooku or Plagueis from coming back.
     
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  13. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    For three decades, the backup plan was the main plan. That's a pretty fair stretch. He couldn't manage one long weekend to brain storm on a plan 'C' in all those years? Well that's some piss poor time management skills for old Sheev. No wonder he keeps getting beat.
     
  14. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Jedi Commander

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    Maybe time passes much more quickly in whatever netherworld he's in while he awaits his resurrection, so he didn't get the chance to think through plan 'C'...
     
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  15. Pomojema

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    The thing is that once he died, he had to start from scratch. Most of those resources he acquired over the course of several decades to carefully craft a plan - gone. His big clone gambit didn't work out as planned and indirectly led to his own downfall. What's left of his Empire wasn't able to completely conquer the galaxy on its own, and needed a back-up fleet to continue its campaign of conquest... And once the Resistance's cavalry showed up, it was basically over for Sheev.

    What happened on Endor was the first time that something put a gigantic spanner in his plans, and because of that it took a long, long time for him to get anywhere near where he needed to be to start another evil plan - which came undone, once again, due to his arrogance.
     
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  16. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    You’re referring to “the largest fleet the galaxy has ever known” as the “back-up fleet”? Sorry, just . . . you know, wanting to clarify.

    My point is that the guy who spent the 20 years where his Empire was handily kicking everyone’s ass, and he was the unquestionable kingpin of the universe, to devise a highly elaborate ‘in case of emergency, break glass’ scenario. And when things actually did go belly up for him and he did indeed have to break that glass, he never, in the 30 years hence, dreamed up what he’d do if his new insane plan didn’t work out either? That doesn’t pass the smell test for me, man.

    He had the resources to construct “the largest fleet the galaxy has ever known”. He couldn’t have built another cloning lab somewhere just in case his new plan went the way his old plan did? He couldn’t have built a dozen? A hundred even? That’s ludicrous?
    If I understand the puzzle pieces dropped by the Aftermath series right, his Noah’s Arc style ‘contingency plan’ was in progress waaaaaaaay before Endor. He was beavering away on how to handle his defeat long before he had any reason to think it could happen. That’s not a guy who puts all his eggs in one basket. Y’know? “All who gain power are afraid to lose it.”
     
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  17. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Clone Commander

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    At the end of TLJ I honestly thought that Hux would be the next villain. I'll never forget him watching Kylo like a predator smelling blood when he was picking up the dice.
    And I still think it's ridiculous how so many loose threads from TLJ were left dangling. But not as ridiculous as Hux of all people being a Resistance spy....:confused:
     
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  18. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Official

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    Whether Palpatine is really, most sincerely dead and not just mostly dead, I strongly believe he shouldn't be dead. Like Snoke, he had the ability to simply immobilize Rey and Kylo simultaneously and hold them in the air and toss them around. But, while ineffectively shooting lightning at Rey, he doesn't just pick her up and hold her there helplessly like he did minutes before but keeps on shooting the damn lightning while it destroys him.

    The way the force is written in these movies is just dumb:

    Kylo Ren picked people up with the force in TFA (A first order officer, moved him across the room) and TROS (lifted some officer up and held him against the ceiling). He could stop a blaster bolt in mid air in TFA. However, the Knights of Ren beat the crap out of him until he gets a saber.

    The Emperor's behavior I mentioned above.

    Leia can fly herself through space using the force but doesn't move the rocks out of the way at the end of TLJ. Has to wait for Rey to do it.



    In episodes 1-6, there seemed to be a rule, while never stated explicitly, that you can't use the force on someone who has the force. You never saw a force user use mind tricks on another force user or immobilize them or pick them up off the ground. My own head canon is that a force user would know how to defeat these types of attacks and therefore they just aren't tried.

    Either way, that all got thrown out with Snoke and Palpatine simply picking force users up and holding them in place. Also, Palpatine messing with Kylo Ren's mind.
     
    #98 Obi5Kenobi, Sep 28, 2021
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  19. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    It will depend on if they want to keep the ancient Sith around. Using Rey as a conduit would make a great story.
     
  20. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    It's a borrow from one of the original ROTJ drafts that had Obi Wan come back from the netherworld quite simply because he was done with being there.

    "My need to stay in the netherworld has been resolved. Your father turned to the good side and I was able to disrupt his journey." - Obi Wan

    But, a bunch of story stuff and logistics got in the way and it just didn't work out to complete that circle back on "more powerful than you can possibly imagine", and it got the shoe box.

    TROS is, at its core, a tour de force of reviving previously developed material that ended up not being able to be used - not because it wasn't wanted, but because problems arose that prevented them from being used.

    On the craftsman's side, it's pretty much a love letter to the orphaned ambitions of the previous films.

    Whether or not anyone likes that love letter or not, different story - one I don't care about debating.

    But, yeah...point is, this idea isn't new to the production, and like most things of this ilk, it was more or less originally just put in and made possible by a magical waving of the arms and saying, "abracadabra".

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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