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How Does his Twitter Post Make Mark Hamill The Bad Guy?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by NotQyteNeo, Apr 27, 2019.

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Is Mark Hamill Wrong for Posting That Image On Twitter?

  1. Yes

    7 vote(s)
    21.9%
  2. No

    25 vote(s)
    78.1%
  1. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    I don't get it though... careful about what? He said he liked a picture because he and his friends were in it on a SW set, there should be nothing offensive about that. It shouldn't matter who made the picture unless he specifies that's why he liked the picture...something like "I love this picture and the person who made it, my opinion precisely!"... but he didn't. He just liked a picture where he and his friends, in iconic character, posed in.

    Asking for him to be careful presumes he did something wrong and shouldn't do it again. I really don't see the wrong in what he did. There's only division if people take a few leaps from what he said (and I mean this on both sides, haters and lovers... actually, getting mad at his words gives validity to "haters" imo), or listen and are bothered by drama queens like Geeks and gamers.

    In short, I think you're projecting your fears into an innocent statement. We all know fear leads to hate and later, the dark side :).
     
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  2. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Spar, I appreciate you, but I think I've more than answered this in my initial post.

    If you're interested, we can discuss the points that I've made there.


    Thanks!
     
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  3. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    I don't know the person who posted the pic, but pronouncing him as the embodiment of the toxic fandom seems extreme... and at the very least an opinion, not fact. What's hurting the fandom and what is toxic is definitely open to debate and opinions abound on what that is.

    The fandom being volatile is a problem for individuals within the fandom, and is up to the fandom to sort out individually. MH being aware of this has nothing to do with anything. He's a person with preferences and hopes and dreams like anyone else. That he wishes or merely likes the idea of having have had the opportunity be in a scene with his 3 friends does not extend his opinion to whoever created that picture.

    If you mean it's not the first time he's had an opinion that didn't follow the carefully scripted statements of LFL... I welcome his genuine opinion and not the repetition forced upon those in the company. To me, that's the toxicity, forcing everyone to have to abide by a single thought process instead of welcoming and inviting discussion and difference of opinion in the very way MH does and did. (See first statement on where we don't all agree on where the toxicity is coming from.)

    The hashtag does not have to be seen and should not necessarily be seen as a knock on the ST. To me it feels more like a lonesome lament, within the story, a regret I'm sure Luke must have felt himself on the decision he made to live apart from his family and regret in not seeing them and talking to them in person. I understand that based on what I've read that the creator of the photo likely didn't make that hashtag in that spirit, but the interpretation could still vary beyond his desires. I would surmise a lot of SW fans found that picture beautiful, and not all share the same reason why it is. It's poignant and emotional, and not only for the reasons the creator intended... I think it transcends that, and MH pointing that out I think is a beneficial thing to the fandom, a healing thing.

    In short, I do not believe it tactless or stupid. I see the contrary, and not in a way that means he's on "my side". I see him turning something that had an intent and trying to twist it as a unifying emblem... which to me is intelligent and thoughtful. As I stated earlier, it seems to me to be an olive branch and inclusive instead of dismissive to opposing opinions. He's acting as an individual, as a fan, and as such probably the best spokes person for the ST and LFL/Disney. I see him making his statement as impulsive, but honest, and in the end, likely by pure chance, the most understanding and inclusive thing I've seen Disney do in some time.

    Which is probably why I've taken such issue with you on this, and I mean none of this in a personal manner. I just see so much positive in what he tried to do it saddens me that some other fans can't see it too.
     
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  4. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    You're free to stand by them, but from what I can see, I recognize them as emblematic of a lot of the issues in the fandom currently.

    If you're not familiar with this person, you're more than welcome to check them out yourself. Plenty of whining about "SJWs" and "soyboys".

    Again, we can argue semantics, but this is not the Star Wars fan I want to associate with.
    I completely disagree. As a member of the cast, he has some degree of responsibility to try and maintain the health of the fandom, or at least not actively antagonize it in negative ways.

    And as the good person that I genuinely believe him to be, it's discouraging to see him engaging with that account that, as pointed out above, is more than arguably quite regressive and toxic.

    As for the fandom- look, ideally, sure. But it's a lot easier for a single person to try to not ignite a powder keg than it is for an entire fandom to suddenly chill out.

    In most cases, I'd agree. Again, I think he has some responsibility to try and maintain an optimistic outlook toward the franchise he's a part of, but transparency is usually good.

    But again, this just emboldens the toxic side of the fandom. I cannot stress that enough.

    Maybe you're reluctant to acknowledge that because you have issues with TLJ as well? That's fine. I always have and will continue to stand by the fact that disliking TLJ is not inherently problematic.

    But nothing exists in a vacuum. The alt-right has latched on to this not unlike Sidious onto a troubled Anakin, and has weaponized it.

    I don't want to take this to too political of a place, but just know- I just want to stress again that it's perfectly fine to dislike a Star War, but there are some pretty awful people out there that now feel emboldened by Mark's statements, and he probably should've seen that coming.



    If that's what he was trying to do, then I applaud his optimism, but am disappointed in his forsight. I groaned the second I saw this Tweet posted, before reading a single comment. It was that obvious to me what a horrible idea it was, for all parties involved.

    Also, not sure what you ended up deciding about the original account that created the image, but Mark was informed of this issue. Know his response?

    upload_2019-5-16_13-51-14.png

    He was told about it, and like you, could've delved into it. Maybe he'd disavow the original account, or post a notice that he was unaware of its origins.

    He didn't. And so those certain groups remained emboldened.

    Not that this makes him a bad person, but boy is it disappointing to me.


    I appreciate that we haven't made this topic personal, because there's no reason for it to be. And I get the feeling maybe I'm not being clear, and sound like I'm furious with Mark about this.

    That's not really the case. I just think he done goofed, and want better from him in the future. Literally, that's all.

    I can tell we feel passionately about this, but I can assure you I've thought quite a lot about this topic, and I simply cannot think of a way in which I can support him here. But like I said, maybe that comes across as harsher over text.
     
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  5. ObeeJaun

    ObeeJaun Rebel General

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    Since he didn't seem to be aware of it, I would argue that you have engaged with that account more than he had at that point. Because he is a celebrity he should have engaged less but yet be more responsible for unknowingly retweeting a photo? And a pretty cool one at that.

    But what about wanting that scene is toxic? What about disagreeing with you on the ST is toxic? You are the one projecting quite a bit based upon a photo, that (in the picture that you posted) MH did not know the origin of. Why should he have to? Why would he care? It's a photograph, it's not indicative of anything of the alt-right in and of itself, and it's absolutely silly to think that it does. So if you see some alt-right whacko wearing the same Star Wars Tshirt as you, will you stop wearing it? What if he designed the most awesome one and you never knew? Would it matter?
     
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  6. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    I've laid out my argument. The sealioning is getting kinda old, so I'm gonna suggest we agree to disagree.
     
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  7. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    Ah, I see where our disagreement stems from I think.

    I believe you're reading more politics into SW than I am, as in alt-right. I believe seeing alt-right everywhere is as bad as seeing SJW everywhere, whether it be in the movies themselves or the responses of the celebrities taking part in the movies.

    Now I'm not so ignorant as to believe they don't exist, but I refuse to legitimize that aspect of the fandom by placing responsibility on others, especially the actors. I don't believe MH is alt-right, and I don't believe you do either. So assuming he posted what he did was in support of the alt-right is wrong-think imo. I think both the alt-right and SJW's can have good ideas, and that their political stance in and of themselves does not make an individual expression on their part invalid. I believe for the SW community to heal doing this is imperative. If someone we disagree with does something nice, we should not shy away from applauding.... not doing so is most certainly divisive. That is why I see MH's actions as being purely good in this instance.

    Everything in that photo, including the hashtag, was open to interpretation. If as a fandom we can't allow ourselves the opportunity to redemption, then we're doomed. If we can't applaud someone when they do something that puts smiles on fans faces, because of our opinion of them, that too is problematic.

    Without getting into politics, I believe this issue goes far beyond SW. I guess it was inevitable that the political polarization would affect us SW fans too. The problem with alt-right accusations is that they are thrown around so liberally that it fails to land now. When Joe Rogan is called alt-right, there's a problem imo. I think that could be extended to SJW's too. I think avoiding those terms would be beneficial for the fandom more than anything else. Both those extremes is what's toxic imo.

    Anyways, I'm thinking we may have to agree to disagree, we're just coming to this from totally different angles.
     
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  8. ObeeJaun

    ObeeJaun Rebel General

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    Right. No one could possible think MH is alt-right b/c he is much further left leaning than...well, he just is.

    And again, dude liked a picture of him and his buddies. I like to look at pictures of me and the idiots I hung out with in college.
     
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  9. Anubis78

    Anubis78 Jedi General

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    I still don't think it matters if the guy was left or right. Nor should MH have to believe one persons random comment. When you are a Star you have to make both side happy, middle ground on some things. MH is very liberal so I still don't see where the problems lies. If it was the person who made the picture, then MH is not at fault for liking something made by some random internet person. There are hundreds of different fan channels and groups out there I can not expect people to know them all. If it would have been made by someone who just says hey I love everything there is nothing wrong at all with anything, I don't think people would care. I think people are over thinking this. It wasn't mean or evil it just was hey this is cool I am going to repost it.
     
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  10. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Force Sensitive

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    My original post = 3-4 minutes screen/story time with LS at the end - after the "Rey, Poe, FInn, Kylo" story has unfolded!!!

    ....

    Absolutely, 100% completely doable. LS would not have smothered anyone.
     
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  11. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    yes he would have. he would need to be in the movie or he needs to be removed. there's no real reason for Luke to be absent and in a good state of mind. If he's in the film, he takes it over.

    And Harrison was done. He wasn't going to be in the end. Han dying was probably a big reason he came back for more than a cameo at all.
     
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  12. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Well the Disney check certainly helped...I know he has been infamously stated he should have died in Empire let alone Return, but I find it hard to believe he came back just to kill him off.
     
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  13. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    It played a big role for him, finally giving his character closure and wrapping it up.
     
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  14. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Force Sensitive

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    Re-read my post. It could be done, it just would have been that they found him very late(only slightly earlier that they actually did in TFA). There's nothing illogical or out of character there at all.

    And i already said Chewie would be there, not Han.

    Absolutely 100% doable. Just like how they could bring back Gamorra in Endgame. It's Hollywood - anything is possible. Where there's a will, there's a way!!
     
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