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How does Rey know her parents are on Ochi’s ship?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Old Jedi, May 23, 2020.

  1. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel General

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    I don't think the Sequel Trilogy films indicate that anything that TFA showed us of young Rey being abandoned (The crying and screaming, seeing Ochi's ship fly away) actually occurred as shown.
     
  2. Old Jedi

    Old Jedi Rebelscum

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    [QUOTE="Jayson, post: 579164,
    Rey sees her parents boarding that ship from a distance one of the times she turns around.
    Rey doesn't understand why.
    Rey starts throwing a fit because she wants her parents and doesn't understand why they're leaving.
    The ship takes off.
    Rey screams at the ship, yelling for her parents to come back because she doesn't understand what's going on.
    Unkar pulls Rey and keeps her from running off.

    That is not illogical.
    That's just basic inference.
    People do this everyday in regular life when seeing children throwing fits in stores and catching pieces of the conversation.
    [/QUOTE]

    I’m with you until this point and so we will have to disagree - because the idea that Rey sees her parents board Ochi’s ship from a distance but does NOT also see Ochi at any point is not logical to me. Possible? Sure, it’s Star Wars so anything is possible but imo it doesn’t flow logically.

    By far the easiest and most logical explanation is that in TFA it was intended to be Rey’s parents ship, but for some reason they changed their minds in TROS and needlessly made it Ochi’s ship and just glossed over it. Not saying that is wrong or bad, just seems unnecessary and detracts from the logic of the story.

    Sorry you find this thread so unnecessary. Hope you enjoy Citizen Kane and watching kids get yelled at in the stores this weekend instead of getting bogged down on this point.
     
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  3. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel General

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    No. The easiest and most logical explanation is that what we saw in TFA regarding Rey's abandonment didn't actually happen the way that it was depicted.
     
  4. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    Why?
    It's not like it's not a regular occurrence in everyday life to see a group of people go into somewhere, but miss a person in that group - especially with only glances at a distance.

    Even episodes of COPS has this happen regularly where a witness or observer saw a sub-set of people going into our out of someplace, but didn't see every person.
    This is why officers ask if the witness saw anyone else, and even if the witness says that they didn't, the officers still approach most situations as having an unknown amount of individuals in such cases; only focusing upon what is at least known.

    There's at least four different ways this could happen easily, and we've seen some of them in Mando even.
    Ochi could have been behind them and obscured by a structure, and her parents could have been going willingly so Ochi doesn't go looking for Rey.
    Ochi could have been in front of them already in the ship's entrance facing her parents, and her parents could have been going willingly so Ochi doesn't go looking for Rey.
    Ochi could have been behind them and obscured by a structure, and her parents could have been going at blaster point.
    Ochi could have been in front of them already in the ship's entrance facing her parents, and her parents could have been going at blaster point.

    There's no requirement for Ochi to be wide out in the open and easily seen by a confused and panicking Rey.
    And then there's the fact that even if she did see Ochi, there's no reason she would be guaranteed to recognize him.
    They could be at a good distance off, and we would assume this is likely considering the size of the ship in the view and angle when it takes off.

    So even if she sees Ochi at about 50 meters or so, she might recognize her parents because they're her parents and she knows their walk and attire - especially as a couple.
    Ochi, from that distance, if she even saw him, would be just a figure of some kind.

    Unless he had something truly remarkable about his appearance, like say Mandalorian armor, there's no reason she would recognize him. She would have easily not been able to see his face, especially when we're talking about a distance of some good amount, and she's clearly not on a stake out and only grabbing panicked glances, and if she is seeing her parents, then why in gods name would anyone except a little child to focus on anyone in their field of view other than her parents in that traumatic moment?

    You think a little Jewish child during WWII would recognize the face of a bounty hunter for the Nazi's from 50 meters as the child was being hauled off by someone they barely knew because they caught a few fleeting glimpses of their parents walking off with that bounty hunter?
    In that environment of chaos and trauma?

    The number of ways that Rey could not have been able to recognize or see Ochi, compared to the number of ways Rey would see and recognize Ochi is 4 to 1, at the least. That is, her chance of seeing Ochi is 20%.
    Her chance of not seeing and recognizing Ochi is 80%.

    So it's not only logical that she wouldn't have seen and recognized Ochi, it's more probable.

    I mean...this is Ochi's ship.
    [​IMG]


    Here's the Falcon, a bigger ship, from a moderate distance at angle at Galaxy's Edge.
    [​IMG]

    Click to see it full size.

    You're telling me it's ridiculous for a little child in a panic to spot her parents from this kind of view, but to not be able to discern who a third person with them is, and further that it's ridiculous for a physical positioning of angles to occur to obscure the third person from the child's view for the moments of glances she has?

    Cheers,
    Jayson
    --- Double Post Merged, May 29, 2020, Original Post Date: May 29, 2020 ---
    You can think that, but it's a moot point at this point because the films themselves (TROS replays the scene out), and the extra-film franchise material disagrees with you.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #64 Jayson, May 29, 2020
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
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  5. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel General

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    I disagree that the films show us that the things we saw her see in TFA re: her abandonment happened as depicted.

    The only thing TRoS as a film says and shows us is that she recognizes Ochi's ship as being a ship she had seen before. It doesn't say anything about whether that realization was borne of something she actually experienced or of what we saw her see in TFA.

    I also contend that the fractured nature of the TFA force visions, the revelations from TLJ about the ways her mind helped her cope with the trauma of being abandoned, and what we see in TRoS from her parents' perspective proves that, in the final analysis, she did not experience being abandoned as we the audience saw it depicted in TFA.
     
  6. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    As I mentioned before, the franchise extra-film material position and the disposition of the actions and narrative responses of the series don't agree with you, so there's really nothing for me to discuss about this. All I can really offer is...
    [​IMG]

    Meaning, you reject the axiom of the thread itself - that there's any linear thread of events to account for. As such, if it's all figurative, the question of the thread itself is moot from your position by default since it was all in error anyway.

    For everyone else taking it more than purely imagined, there's a different discussion that is relevant to the thread.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
  7. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel General

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    @Jayson You've now twice repeated that non-filmic material establishes that my interpretation of the Sequel Trilogy and the story surrounding Rey's abandonment is wrong. Would it be too much to ask for some more specific details in that regard?

    Because I'm more than willing to change my assessment in the face of Canon evidence if it exists (I don't believe that the films themselves provide such evidence when considered together, but if I'm wrong, I'll admit it).
     
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  8. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    The novel.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YJZRNDG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

    You won't find Rey witnessing her parents leaving Jakku as being an imagined thing.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  9. Oliver Hodges

    Oliver Hodges Clone Trooper

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    the force
     
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  10. The Birdwatcher

    The Birdwatcher Clone Commander

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    (Plus, I have to wonder how KK and the Lucasfilm brass felt about Trevorrow having adapted so much of Lucas' first draft of ROTJ into his script to begin with.)

    What? How? And which draft are we talking about here? There's like 3 or more drafts before the July 1981 meeting between Lucas, Kasdan, Marquand, and Kanzajian, which started cementing things.

    We have (according to The Making of Return of the Jedi book): p.12- Revenge of the Jedi undated outlines I, II, & III- summary, pp. 21-33- The rough draft summary of Revenge of the Jedi- February 24, 1981, and the revised rough draft summary of Revenge of the Jedi- June 12, 1981-pp. 47-53.

    Also, did you mean Rise of Skywalker or Return of the Jedi?

    As we saw in the recent SWNN editorial on the rescue of Han Solo in ROTJ, awkwardly crafted plot devices are hardly new to Star Wars, particularly in the rush to tie everything up at the end of a trilogy. In the case of ROTJ, however, the flaws in the rescue plot tend to be overshadowed by the fact that the Jabba's palace/sail barge scenes are about 45 minutes or so of big dumb fun.

    Flaws arose out of the impromptu structure of the writers attempting to think of ideas and detailing what happened in-between. True, they were in a rush, although some of the earlier scripts, I thought, had some good ideas in them- just needed a bit of tweaking. Some of what was in the earlier scripts DID make it into the final film, too.

    As for FLAWS in the rescue plan, the PLAN was, according to Lucas during the July 1981 story conference: "I [Luke] am going to knock everybody overboard and into the pit and we're going take off"- p. 67- The Making of Return of the Jedi. So, there WAS a plan. The way it was executed was illogical, because there may have been possible contradictions developed later down the line (i.e. Lucas mentions Luke intending to kill/fight the Rancor to become a prisoner to be led down to the Sarlacc pit; in the film, this is not evident, as Hamill seems scared with the rancor and tries to use a blaster before falling into the pit with the rancor beast).

    Kasdan suggested making the plan with multiple layers- p. 67, which is fine, but has also made an unintended side-effect of making the plan convoluted and unnecessary, especially with contradictions that arise later on in the script.
     
    #70 The Birdwatcher, Jul 4, 2020 at 5:22 PM
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020 at 5:35 PM
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  11. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    The earlier draft plan was also more logical as the droids and then Lando and Chewie were sent by Luke as bargains he knew would not work, but get everyone inside so he had a team available, and Han was unthawed by Jabba so he could kill him in the pit.

    That all got junked when Leia's rebelion insurgency subplot got dropped and Leia had to be shoved into the Jabba scenes.

    Also...while we're on the topic...
    TROS' Sith planet with a crazy throne room, multiple destroyers, and taking out antenna arrays is very similar to the earlier ROTJ idea of two (or more?) Death Stars, an Imperial planet with a crazy throne room, and taking out atenna arrays.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  12. Messi

    Messi Force Attuned

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    And Mr. Mcquarrie made some concepts for them:
    Screenshot_20200705-012039_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20200705-011719_Chrome.jpg
     
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