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How many of you who enjoyed TLJ went to see SOLO?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Rayjefury, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. Aloy of the Nora

    Aloy of the Nora Rebel Official

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    I enjoyed Last Jedi a lot more than Solo. At least it tried to add to the mythology of Star Wars. Solo was just generic Marvel level nonsense. Only fault really with Last Jedi is its rehash of the empire plot lines. It was good but it could have been great.
     
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  2. Modragon

    Modragon Rebel General

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    I really like The Last Jedi. I still watch it all the time on Netflix. Even though I’m a student of legends canon and would have loved a Yuuzhan Vong or Legacy of the Force trilogy, it’s sill an awesome movie. And I really like Solo. It’s not as good of a movie by far, but it’s fun and Paul Bettany is amazing. There’s something about the story movies that make me want to watch them more.
     
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  3. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    The PT also covered vastly greater amounts of time. 20ish years. But there are plenty of risks that could have been had. Mostly by telling a different story. The PT was a risk simply from a filmmaking stand point with the advances in CGI. Whether or not it works is another thread. But I digress on that.

    Risks aren't just in story telling. They're how the story is being told. Rogue One took risks. It killed off every new character. It was shot unlike any Star wars film. It was frenetic. It's the closest we may ever get to a R rated Star Wars.

    Everything about Solo was very paint by numbers. It wasn't bad, it was just...there.
    And what you are describing is incredibly risk adverse. We see the Wookiepedia of Han on screen. (h/t Screen Junkies).
    Nothing in there is really shocking. Han is never really a scoundrel.

    If they had focused more on Han and Qi'ra and the love angle and the Crimson Dawn and made it a real crime drama like a Goodfellas or even Heat....that'd be a risk. But it always came to a crawl for you to meet someone important or to witness some event. It's the inherent flaw with prequels and why I generally don't like them as a concept.

    The only future you have to really worry about is Han being in Mos Eisley at the right time. Everything else will sort of fall in. He's skeptical of the force so ixnay that. But otherwise...

    Bottom line, take some kind of a risk. Make Han Solo an actual scoundrel akin to what you see in DJ or even Cassian. Then he can actually GROW into Han Solo from the end of ANH. He's basically the same guy from the first minute of Solo to his last breath in TFA.....which is ultimately why Harrison Ford wanted him pushing up daisies since 1981
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 17, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 17, 2018 ---
    It's a risk the same way changing the title card from yellow to red is.
    No rational person should see it as a big deal.
    Han is a grown person, it should be expected they have loved before.
     
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  4. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    We agree on this point, as I don't love Prequels (I even think Better Call Saul is a big overrated, as it is well done but there is no drama because you know what happens to most characters).

    In fairness to Solo, it killed off most of the main characters (Beckett, Val, L3 Droid, Dryden, Rio Durant) as obviously it couldn't kill Han, Chewy and Lando. And Qira was not killed cause they were setting her up for a Sequel with Darth Maul.


    Again, I think the character development that many were looking for in the context that you are talking about would have been done in the Solo sequels, so there is only so much to do in 1 movie. Look at Rogue One as there is NO character development in that movie among the main leads, as that is it's biggest flaw. While I did really like Rogue One, I cared more about Han and Qira then Jyn and Cassian.

    I believe a sequel would have set up the Han/Qira dynamic and really delved into the Han we see in ANH, but that probably won't happen now because the movie bombed. You forget that most Blockbusters of a character usually are a Trilogy, so they can delve into their arcs. The Dark Knight is a clearly better movie then Batman Begins, as that is where you get the character development. Heck, we don't see any real character development of Anakin until AOTC, or The Matrix Sequels, or even going back to The Terminator franchse as the T2 is where you see the full arc of Sarah Connor.

    I am in no way saying Solo is a classic or a masterpiece, but the movie works in the constraints for what they wanted to accomplish. I think if we saw Solo 2 and Solo 3, then you would see a different arc as 1 movie is just going to give you the basics of the character. Sadly, the fans didn't show up for Solo, so we'll never know.
     
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  5. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Solo killed off no one important or no one you were supposed to be attached to. Which as we agreed upon, is the issue with prequels. Half of those deaths happen so early you can't possibly give a rats behind about them outside of "well that was a egregious waste of Thandie Newton and whomever came up with that idea should get smacked."

    Rogue One has little to no development because it's such a narrow movie. It's entirely plot driven. It's all about the story of the Death Star plans. Which is a flaw, to some a major one, with Rogue One. The problem I was describing is that there is no room for Han to grow or change because he is who he always was to us. Him changing in a sequel is just kind of wishy washy.

    (Batman Begins is better than The Dark Knight and this is a hill I will die on but that's a different thread! lol)

    We don't see any character arc from Anakin in TPM because he isn't a character in TPM, he's a plot device. lol. That's a problem with writing. He's the actual maguffin of TPM. You get full arcs from multiple movies but when you have other established movies already (ANH thru TFA) you need to be a different person than you are in those films. He's basically going through the same arc twice now and in sequels it'd just be three times.
     
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  6. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    We can atleast agree that The Dark Knight Rises is the worst of the Trilogy? lol!
     
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  7. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    oh 1000%
    I could go on a very, very, very long rant about Begins vs DK lol
     
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  8. stencil

    stencil Rebel General

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    I loved Ep 7 and 8, but from the very beginning I really had no desire to see Solo. It's just not something that interests me. I don't want to see how Han met Chewie, I don't want to see the Kessel Run, I don't want to see how Han acquired the Falcon. These mysteries add to the depth and mystery of Star Wars to me. When we explain every single little event of these characters and the universe I really feel like we make them smaller. Funnily enough, if the movie was called "Lando" and explored his backstory I would have been totally on board!

    That said I was still planning on seeing it, somehow I never got around to it. I'll see it on video eventually. Suffice to say I have no desire for an Obi Wan movie, a Yoda movie, etc. I want new stories and new characters. An Old Republic trilogy would be amazing to me. Let the characters I love live on in peace!
     
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  9. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

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    Very interesting. Something you said at the end struck me, "Let the characters I love live on in peace". Did this adage have any application to TLJ where many of the fans were upset with the portrayal of Luke? Did his portrayal not bother you -OR- are you saying you liked TLJ in spite of Luke's portrayal and it is (in part) due to that portrayal that you came to realize you didn't want established characters re-explored? Or did TLJ not come into the equation at all.

    Also, I can get the lethargy related to seeing a movie that's not a new movie. But I said the same thing about Rogue One initially, but by the time December rolled around I was "all in" to go see it, and it was a great decision because it was (IMO) a great movie. Were you apathetic about Rogue One as well? Did you see it in theaters?
     
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  10. stencil

    stencil Rebel General

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    Thanks for asking. Okay, here I will spill all on every new SW movie! Remember, these are my opinions and I do not fault you for feeling differently from me.

    There were weaknesses to TLJ, but honestly I LOVED every bit with Luke, Rey, and Kylo. In fact Luke was my favorite part of that movie and made me forgive many other shortcomings (Canto Bight I'm looking at you). I thought Mark Hamill knocked it out of the park and he played Luke exactly the way I would expect him to be, considering the options given him by Ep7. Of course I wanted to see the continued adventures of Luke, Han, and Leia, because they are continuing adventures - new stories which expand the universe, not filling in the blanks of old stories which only make the universe smaller IMO. The ideas I have had in my mind concerning the past - Clone Wars, origin of Darth Vader, Han's past, etc. - to me are far richer than anything that has been retconned in the Prequels and stand alones.

    As for Rogue One, I was excited to see that movie. Even though it retcons previous stuff, it was nothing I cared about too much. I didn't have emotional attachments to the stealing of Death Star plans so I was really interested to see it. I wanted to love it. I saw it twice in theater. The movie to me was... okay. To keep it brief, I found the movie to be a bit lifeless. None of the characters felt real to me the way Luke, Han, Leia, Rey, and Kylo do. Because of that I didn't really care what happened to them. I had no emotional attachment so the movie just fell flat.

    So the TLDR is that I love the old characters, I just don't like them explaining away the mystery of the old movies. I want to see new stories.
     
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  11. Trev

    Trev Rebel General

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    Yeah, I enjoyed Solo, but it doesn’t even come close to The Last Jedi for me. The Last Jedi was, in my opinion, the best Disney Star Wars film — Solo is the weakest. I liked it, but I felt like every character was more intriguing than Han, even though it was supposed to be his movie. It’s pretty forgettable compared to the saga films.

    I think future anthology films need to take more of a Rogue One approach — it was almost exclusively new characters, aside from a few expected cameos, and I really think it benefitted quite a bit from that. I’d like to see more films like that.
     
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  12. JediMasterRaspberry

    JediMasterRaspberry Clone Trooper

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    I see that you are a person burdened with common sense in a world dominated by nonsense.:cool:

    The silly notion that there was a boycot, etc and the media obsession with put me off most movie websites and Star Wars podcasts.

    The Star Wars fanbase is not large by itself enough to make the films either huge success or t make them bomb.

    It is indeed as you say, the "general audience" does that and they didn't come out for Solo. Poor marketing, a silly rush to get it out on a bad release date, etc

    Solo is a great movie. Alden Ehrenreich and Joonas Suotamo are great together. I will be sorely disappointed in Lucasfilm and Disney if there isn't a whole bunch of sequels.
     
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  13. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

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    It's funny, as I read this I'm not sure anyone explicitly named one issue (or a number of issues) that accounted for the 600 million dollar difference between R1's reception and Solos. People gave reasons they thought might affect the box office, but no one seemed to sign up for accounting for the entire 600 million, in fact there's almost no mention of the difference outside of myself. That seems worth noting.

    As I mentioned in the beginning of the thread I assumed that many that hated TLJ would not go see SOLO. I also assumed that many who liked TLJ would go see SOLO (if for no other reason to see it become a box office success and strengthening the argument that it was only a vocal minority that didn't like TLJ and that their sound and fury regarding Episode 8 amounted to nothing when it came to ticket sales)

    But SOLO bombed. And now it seems the argument is that SOLO was a story no one wanted to see. (I don't agree btw but I am reading that in this thread). So people who hated TLJ boycotted it, people who loved TLJ didn't go see it because it wasn't a story they wanted to see, and the general audience didn't go see it for reasons unknown; that's the consensus or no? Either way, very interesting.
     
  14. starfish

    starfish Rebelscum

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    Solo underperformed for sure, but I think “it bombed” is a bit of an exaggeration. Wasn’t it still like one of the top ten films last year, in term of box office?

    If it had not been for the re shoots the film most likely would have even made a profit. Or if they had just waited and released the film in December like the previous three Star Wars films. I honestly think that’s the big reason, it came out only a few months after TLJ and many in the general audience just weren’t aware it was out. That’s the impression I get anyways.

    And in the end I quite like the film. It’s fun and and offers a lot of great world building and new designs to Star Wars. I enjoyed TLJ as well, but honestly the anthologies have really impressed me, both RO and Solo.
     
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  15. Darth_Nobunaga

    Darth_Nobunaga Rebel Official

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    It was one of the most expensive films ever made---moreso than either TLJ or TFA, thanks to two periods of production---and only managed to make little more than $300 million worldwide. Just because it broke the top 10 of 2018 doesn't mean it turned the profit it needed to break even.

    It's not the biggest bomb in Disney's history...that distinction goes to the production and financial nightmare that was John Carter. But Solo is still up there, regardless.
     
  16. starfish

    starfish Rebelscum

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    er, yeah I didn’t say or suggest that it made a profit. I even mentioned the re shoots and how if not for them it may very well have made a profit.

    The point about it being a top ten film from last year is that it was not the bomb people think it was. It was the first time ever that multiple Star Wars films were released on the same year, and only a few months apart. The poor marketing campaign combined with the decision to not release the film on the normal December date lead to people just not knowing it was even out.

    Also without the re shoots as well as doing poorly at the box office it also may have been a terrible film. I like what we got in the end and am glad that Kennedy decided to switch directors.
     
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  17. Darth_Nobunaga

    Darth_Nobunaga Rebel Official

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    The definition of a box office bomb is a film that staggers on a financial level and ends up losing money on a significant scale. And Solo lost Disney over $80 million.

    Now, you could argue that $80 million is nothing more than pocket change for a company as vast as Disney, but Disney didn't buy the Star Wars brand to lose money. Bob Iger himself said that "Star Wars films aren't allowed to bomb"...which would imply on any level at all. And he's right to be that strict with a Star Wars film's financial earnings---it doesn't look good at all in the eyes of shareholders, top 10 movies of 2018 or not.
     
  18. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    Iger has also taken some of the blame for Solo. He's the one that wouldn't movie the release to December which would have helped the film's box office prospects immensely. Aquaman arrived to far worse reviews than Solo and made 100M more in the US. Releasing Solo in May was just dumb.

    Solo was never gonna put up big Star Wars numbers though. The interest for the project was never really there, but Disney could have managed it better.
     
  19. Darth_Nobunaga

    Darth_Nobunaga Rebel Official

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    Not contesting any of that. He should absolutely take the blame for how Solo turned out, because he not only greenlit the film (which, in theory, would place obligations on him to ensure better measures taken to prevent bad progress to consume the project), but he was also the one directly responsible for ushering in the brief endeavor of annual Star Wars films. Regardless of how much of Solo's actual quality or poor marketing or production woes aren't his fault, Disney shareholders are going to place the blame on him regardless for letting it get as far as it did.

    Also, with Aquaman, the film (much like Venom) had a stronger reach thanks to international success...which Solo absolutely didn't have, given the bulk of its box office "success" came from domestic earnings. The Asian markets that Disney is targeting, such as China, has completely lost interest in Star Wars. They have absolutely no enthusiasm to go watch any SW films...something that I don't think Disney had considered they bought the brand back in 2012.

    They've certainly taken measures to better market to Chinese audiences (reducing John Boyega's presence in the marketing for supposed cultural reasons, changing the name of Solo to Ranger Solo to disassociate from the Star Wars brand), but thus far nothing has worked.
     
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