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How Palpatine survived and his motives to stay hidden

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Bradford Tyllestad, Oct 23, 2019.

  1. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    Which is an explanation.

    It might not be an in-depth explanation (which this film wasn't ever going to provide anyway), but it's still an explanation.
     
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  2. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    But when this is essentially the crux of your entire plot, it matters and should be explained.

    Snoke was never that important to the story. He was a stepping stone. He didn't need explained.
    Palpatine, long thought to be dead, coming back with a bigger badder army than the FO army (which makes NO sense but that's a different thread), shows up reveals himself to be Rey's grandpa......yeah I'd say it warrants some screen time over wayfinders.
     
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  3. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    Meh, Sheev conceiving a child is honestly weirder than him surviving.

    Eeek.
     
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  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Sure. That doesn't really make sense either. But IMO very little of the Palpatine plot did other than to just have him there.
    And it's not about it being weird, it's about the logic gaps in him being there and essentially ignoring it to chase wayfinders.
     
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  5. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    There are no 'logic gaps' in Palpatine returning unless you want to harp on about wanting a more in-depth explanation to help you understand something that, within the context of the film, doesn't actually need explanation beyond what we were given if you look at mythological and thematic structure.
     
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  6. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    I know SW fans love plot explanations for the sake of plot explanations but....I treat Palps like I treated Snoke....evil always exists, and Palps is the saga's paragon representation of evil (just like Snoke would have been, regardless of some sort of plot 'origin'), so, he's there and needs to be confronted. The theme outweighs any sort of lengthy technical plot explanation. The Sith are a shifty lot, even losers like Maul. There are bigger flaws with the film, and if I didn't need an explanation for Snoke being a thing at all, I'm not gonna rush to find one for Palps.
     
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  7. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    "The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural."
     
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  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Then they should have just said that. But they didn't. TLJ essentially opens this door; explaining Rey as you are now. But this movie, in it's own text, opens the door for the issues with the HOW. That's on the movie. If they just said he is essentially evil incarnate and can he ever be defeated or just contained....then that works better with the THEMES of Star Wars.

    If you are going to show this and explicitly state this type of stuff, in the movie to the point it becomes a central plot point then it has to be treated as such.

    And if you want to get into theme, sure let's do that too.
    So Palps is defeated by a show of incredible force energy from Rey.
    Isn't this sort of in antithesis to the actual themes of the OT?
    Luke throws down his lightsaber and refuses to partake in the violence and appeals to love to win out.
    TROS just goes "Nah, force lightning this Vhlor"
    But sure. Themes.
     
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  9. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    Well now Palps as Anakin's father works. Because he would have done it again to find another 'heir'.

    He even says in ROTS to Yoda that: "Vader will become more powerful than either of us"

    It....kinda works. I don't really like it....but....Palps as Anakin's father works better if he tries it again later with Rey...perhaps he really didn't want to kill her until she grows up away from his influence.

    Hmmm....I guess I'll take it with some salt.
     
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  10. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    I will say I liked ROS.

    The presentation of Palpatine was well done in this context. It feels like a twist on the direction they started.

    My only issue with Palpatine's return is that makes Vader's shadow and Anakin's legacy of less consequence. Rey and Ren were prior to this were competing not just for the galaxy but for who really is Anakin's successor a pauper who defies great evil or a dark lord. By placing such placement on Palpatine it makes him a greater shadow over all things.
     
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  11. BobaFettNY21

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    Did she use Force lightning? I don't see that at all. Not one bit. I would say that's speculation that she used lightning...without actually projecting it from her fingers because she was holding lightsabers in both.

    She did exactly what Mace Windu did. Defend. The theme of all that hate being returned to you eventually killing you for once and all - that's what I see.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 23, 2019 ---
    They definitely took a layer of the thematic onion (lol, I'm using that and going to copyright it) from TLJ and threw it away. I still think ROS works thematically but....yeah, a bit shallower than how TLJ did and set it up to be.
     
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  12. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    Palpatine is only a "father" to Anakin in the metaphorical sense, having taken interest in him and marked him as a candidate for the perpetuation of the Sith Order and a suitable 'vessel' from the moment they first encountered one another on Naboo.
     
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  13. BobaFettNY21

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    I know the story group has commented on that and all....but I'm just saying it makes sense that Palps would have done some weird Sith conception.....a SithCeption before. Let's Get WEIRD!!!! haha
     
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  14. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

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    Palpatine is a hermaphrodite confirmed
     
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  15. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    I would say that if it's that convoluted to explain, it was presented poorly on the screen. Which again, why? What greater goal did this serve? But is it once and for all? I can't take that seriously now. It was always kind of a joke in Star Wars to begin with, but why would we be okay thinking he only had one clone?

    And even then, it's still coming back to violence being the answer. Meh.
     
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  16. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    This movie reveals that the Sith live on through the act of the Apprentice killing the Master, which recontextualizes the "Rule of Two" into a reincarnation ritual in which Sith Masters essentially set up their own eventual deaths by stoking the ambitions of their Apprentices to the point that said Apprentices kill them, allowing the Masters to possess said Apprentices and continue their own existence.
     
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    Was it even a clone? I saw half a body that began to regenerate when he took their essence.
     
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  18. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    See, that's part of my problem. It isn't explained. Is it a clone? The visual context on the screen says yes. The spoken dialogue says "maybe".
     
  19. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    @RoyleRancor Snoke was not a Clone; he was an artificially created being whom the Sith Lord used as a 'puppet King'.

    Also, the revelation that Sith Masters live on through the act of their Apprentices killing them is in and of itself an explanation for Palpatine's survival because it would've left his spirit 'in limbo' and essentially trapped in his own shriveled corpse on account of Vader dying.
     
    #139 DigificWriter, Dec 23, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
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  20. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    So if there is more than one of these Snoke "artificially created beings" (sure as hell sounds like a long way of saying "clone, but you do you) wouldn't that make the second one....a clone? And we see them in a bottle....so is the one we saw actually the original? If it isn't wouldn't that make it a clone?
     
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