How strong is the First Order

Good question. My question is how did the First Order manage to build a super-weapon more powerful than the Death Star with less resources than the Empire?

 

It's a case of standing on the shoulders of giants, for one. They surely had access to a lot of the Empire's research, as well as at least some of their remaining resources.

Also, and I can't speak toward the actual science (partly because we'd have to discuss real life Kyber crystals, which is an exercise in futility), Starkiller Base was simply a more efficient use of resources than the Death Star. It's not so much meant to be some big hulking but inefficient menace meant to inspire fear (we see this motif again with Imperial Walkers) but rather a killing machine. The base was carved out of an existing planet, rather than built from the ground up- already more efficient than the Death Star. Also, the weapon draws on the power of a nearby star.

They used what they had available to them. It was a devastatingly efficient weapon- but it also forced the Resistance's hand into attacking immediately, which ended up working out rather poorly for the First Order.

 

The novels have hinted at long-term Imperial projects in deep space where other resources have always been kept. It could be retconned as an abandoned Imperial project.
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As for the OP, it is a good question. The picture I get is that the Republic had only a peacekeeping fleet that was capable but not something that could hold hegemonic power over the galaxy, and it almost seems that there are lot more non-Republic worlds. So the FO would not have had to have a huge fleet or even massive planet-holdings to be a threat, which is why the Resistance could be small and still a threat to the FO, especially backed up by the Republic fleet.

At least, that's the impression that I get.

 

all i can say for certain is that they're stronger than the second and third orders

honestly though, a good question! as you said, all we see is a Star Destroyer and Starkiller Base in TFA. i know in the comics they seem to be a lot more present in the galaxy, but even the comics don't seem to give a full picture as to where they're at military-wise.

on how they built Starkiller Base, one could argue that since the structure of the base is/was an existing planet maybe they didn't need as many resources since they didn't have to build it from scratch? bit of a stretch, what with the planet-wide trench and endless mining that would need to be done to clear out the core and all that. maybe they had/have more resources than we assume?

 

The seeds of the First Order are mentioned in Bloodline, but bugger me I can't remember the details

 

The planet "Starkiller Base" was discovered by the Empire and the kyber crystals of the planet were used in the two Death Stars.

You can see a fleet of destroyers in front of the Starkiller Base:
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2017/01/1483561604-starkiller-base-planet.jpg

and for the ressources of the Order:

"Subverting the New Republic
In the years leading up to the destruction of the Hosnian system, the First Order quietly bided its time preparing for its eventual war with the New Republic. To generate funding to refit and rearm the former Imperial fleet, the First Order used a militia group called the Amaxine warriors as proxies to fund the Nikto crime lord Rinnrivin Di's cartel. Seven years prior to the "Napkin Bombing" at the New Republic senatorial complex on Hosnian Prime, the First Order used the Amaxines to inject billions of Credits as start-up capital into Rinnrivin's cartel, turning the hitherto minor cartel into a major crime syndicate. Establishing a mutual relationship with the Amaxines, Rinnrivin embarked on lucrative smuggling and gambling operations with the proceeds being channeled through shadowy corporations and Centrist sources back to the First Order, which used the money to rebuild its fleet."

everything we know about the Order is here:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/First_Order

 

That is correct. We are introduced to this through Rinnrivin Di's crime syndicate, which received start-up capital from the Amaxine warriors (who were intermediaries for the First Order). The syndicate was funneling significant funds back to the First Order. Leia was investigating Di's crime syndicate in Bloodline.

 

Seems like your average fleet.

 

If they wear underarm deodorant they won't be strong at all.

 

I want to ask you something and it is not in any way me bashing the things done in TFA but since I too haven't read any of the books then maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong. Apart from you, I have indeed seen many people writing that Starkiller was more effective than the Death Star yet everything I see points to the contrary. The DS was a mobile battle station that is greatly effective in that it can even move through hyperspace and attack any target it chooses while SK can't go anywhere and it has to drain a whole sun to fire it's laser. How the FO managed to charge the weapon again is beyond me but how effective can SK be when it can't go anywhere and it's ruining it's own solar system? I mean, how many suns does that system have and how much could SK shoot before it became useless? I'm pretty sure the laser is not infinite in the distance it could travel so what happens when it can't reach it's target? What happens if SK is rotating in the wrong direction it has to fire as it is indeed still a functional planet and has to rotate? All the DS would have to do was send a few fighters to know the direction SK is pointing, enter hyperspace and pop up behind it or even under or above it since the planet can't move and blast SK to kingdom come.

Has there been any info that proves this wrong or at least says the FO had plans to make SK mobile? Cause if this was the case then SK would definitely be WAY more awesome and dangerous than the DS but if it was just a planet with a laser and had to work exactly like a planet and couldn't move then it was real trashy compared to the DS as once it drained it's suns (which would kill all life on SK) or couldn't reach any more targets, SK would be a useless piece of junk floating in space.

 

I would have to go back and read what it says about SK base in the Visual Dictionary as that would be the only book other than the novel that even mentions SK

 

Thanks for the idea. I checked the visual guide but it didn't say nothing so I then went to Wookieepedia. It says there that SK was indeed mobile.


This really makes it a bit sucky that they destroyed SK so quick in the first ST movie. Imagine the tension of letting us know that the FO had something hidden and then in the next movie when it looked like the good guys were going to win, the FO unleashed SK and would have destroyed all those Republic planets! That would have been much cooler than here's a new DS so let's blow it up and call it a day. SK had alot of potential and could have had a more effective roll than just being a DS 3.0 which had to be taken out the very first movie.

 

Agree 100%. What is more unbelievable than the quick destruction of SK base was the even-quicker plan formulated on how to destroy it.

 

Now it is my turn to agree 100% with you my friend as it was indeed sad to just have a few minutes of ''Well it's big but that doesn't matter. Let's do what we always do and blow it up.''

 

I "listened" 2 the Rogue One pre novel Catalyst. There was many recalls to Legends. The Torpedo Sphere and Eye Of Palpatine (called an asteroid base) were brought up but (probably) not built. Also talked about was "shooting a beam through hyperspace" like SKB but impractical.

In the R1 novel Tarkin was upset that destroying Scarif may delay the "Celestial Sphere" project. Hmmmmm SKB is a sphere.

I think the GE actually started construction of SKB. Mirroring how the CIS started the "Ultimate Weapon".

 

Here's what the wiki says:

Seems like, at least as far as the planet goes, the FO was behind the thing the entire time. As far as the "First Order's newest superweapon", I guess that could've been an Imperial design originally.

The Empire did have a lot of other tech terrors and superweapons in the old EU (World Devastators, Eclipse Class SSD, Galaxy Gun, etc), so it's totally possible the FO's weapon was a holdover from that era.

As for SKB's mobility- apparently "Its mobility was provided by rocket ports on the far side of the base.". Seems like the science is a little wonky (in that the base would somehow not rotate, but still have gravity) or it'd be the galactic equivalent of a sailboat (in that it's mobility direction is basically at the whims of its rotation). Not that Star Wars is known for its scientific accuracy. I guess there could be artificial gravity, too.

 

Although SKB is a planet it's small. 660km. So it's possible it can move through Hyperspace.

 

To add on to the Fleet being much larger, Kylo's ship, the Finalizer, is hinted to be dwarfed by another ship in the fleet.

Have a strong feeling this would be The Eclipse based on Life Debt.