1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

How the ST can become better than the OT!

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Sparafucile, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. Anubis78

    Anubis78 Cantina's Mad-Hatter
    1030th Captain ** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2018
    Posts:
    498
    Likes Received:
    25,282
    Trophy Points:
    148,967
    Credits:
    9,605
    Ratings:
    +26,156 / 0 / -1
    Time is biggest issue here. The love that SW has built has had decades to grow. The ST will be the first chance some have to meet this new world. The stories are good, there are things that I don't like about them. They are still good. I will let time tell me how it works as whole.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Ammianus Marcellinus

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    * when they resolve Kylo versus Rey in an innovative and original fashion
    * when they allow Finn to show that more stormtroopers might turn
    * when they don't bring back Phasma
    * when the story actually resolves the entire saga

    However, for me, the sequel trilogy does so far already supersede the original trilogy, not in terms of nostalgia for me, but I just think the VII and VIII in conjunction are better and the narrative more interesting and coherant. Don't get me wrong I love the originals. I swear by them. But I love ANH for what it is, but don't particularly love it as a good movie. ROTJ is interesting in its third act, but the first one bores me to death. ESB is perfect. However overall, the originals constitute 3 beautiful near perfect films :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Adam812

    Adam812 Rebel General

    Joined:
    May 16, 2018
    Posts:
    311
    Likes Received:
    674
    Trophy Points:
    4,142
    Credits:
    1,302
    Ratings:
    +1,032 / 18 / -5
    The OT was lightning in a bottle. The greatness of those movies will likely never replicated.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  4. Too Gon Onbourbon

    Too Gon Onbourbon Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Posts:
    321
    Likes Received:
    542
    Trophy Points:
    3,417
    Credits:
    811
    Ratings:
    +728 / 7 / -8
    Bring Johnson or a like mind to do X?

    I don't know that JJ has a better than the OT in him. Really good? Sure. Great? Plausible. Excellence? I'm dubious and even more dubious this should wrap up with just one more episode VII & VIII are more like a two part episode to me.

    So even though I rank TLJ 2nd in the franchise and TFA to be great it still essentially would take the best movie in the franchise to pull the ST over the OT otherwise it is destined to be 2nd and we are debating about how close it is.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2017
    Posts:
    279
    Likes Received:
    1,851
    Trophy Points:
    7,667
    Credits:
    2,449
    Ratings:
    +2,028 / 4 / -1
    The Sequels are fun and I like it so far and Am intrigued to see how it ends.

    But anthologies around the ST will not change how people feel about them. The Anthologies in the original trilogy era don't have any impact on how people view the Originals. The original trilogy is a classic with or without rogue one.
    The sequels will be judged on what they are and not what an anthology film or book or animated show does to compliment it.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  6. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Posts:
    374
    Likes Received:
    3,539
    Trophy Points:
    12,942
    Credits:
    5,453
    Ratings:
    +4,039 / 32 / -11
    It's high time people start looking at the Skywalker films as a 9 film saga rather than three separate trilogies. Its completely unreasonable to try to compare the three trilogies because of recency bias, nostalgic bias, and confirmation bias. But, that's too much to ask in today's day and age when you have trolls hating on things because they are entitled pieces of bantha poodoo who have nothing better to do than to hate something.

    As far as I'm concerned: let the trolls scream. They can't erase the PT or Jar Jar or the sequel trilogy. Like Kylo...they will have to live with the constant torment.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  7. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Posts:
    279
    Likes Received:
    312
    Trophy Points:
    867
    Credits:
    305
    Ratings:
    +504 / 15 / -28
    @BespinMinersUnion1138

    If we look at the 9 episodes together what do we get?
    A messed up family who ruined a great civilization/republic who was at peace and prosperous for thousands of years?
    Even if they (the resistance), so what? Even if Reyo happens, so what? After 30 years, second Column will appear, kill off all Reylo's kids/students and make Galaxy killer....

    How can ST be better than the OT? It can't.
     
    • Wise Wise x 1
  8. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Master of Coin
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Posts:
    2,448
    Likes Received:
    40,396
    Trophy Points:
    164,727
    Credits:
    28,792
    Ratings:
    +45,883 / 6 / -3
    @Bunai: comment deleted; this isn't the place for continued TLJ bashing. If you don't have anything constructive to add to the thread topic, find a different one.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  9. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Posts:
    374
    Likes Received:
    3,539
    Trophy Points:
    12,942
    Credits:
    5,453
    Ratings:
    +4,039 / 32 / -11
    Palpintine and the Jedi arrogance messed up the Galaxy. Besides, it’s your opinion it can’t. It’s my opinion can. Feel free to disagree, no skin off my back.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    There's a quote in the old Xwing novels when Wedge first puts his team together, I think it applies here.

    I'm not around my books, but it goes something like this.

    No matter how good you are, you'll never be as good as the original Rogue Squadron. Even Piggy will be regarded as better than you. (far from an exact quote, gimme a break, it's been at least a decade since I've read them... maybe I'm due:))

    But yeah, I think the OT kind of embodies that sentiment for most. Even if they can get actors with the same chemistry and talent, they can never have us listen to the John Williams score for the first time again. Or see a lightsaber ignite for the first time. There's just so many firsts in the OT, that for old guys like me, they'd have to really blow me away with firsts of their own, and I just don't see that happening.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  11. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Posts:
    374
    Likes Received:
    3,539
    Trophy Points:
    12,942
    Credits:
    5,453
    Ratings:
    +4,039 / 32 / -11
    The OT for old fogies like myself and you was emblematic of our childhood. There is no way for us to recreate the magic of watching the movies as a kid - that's not how our brains work. I'm a teacher and I've talked with a number of students for whom the PT came out when they were little kids. They have a love for the PT that the OT can't match. The ST will be the same way for little kids now. They won't be able to regard the PT or OT like previous generations.

    This is the crux of the issue that so many people here forget. You can't relive your childhood. These movies do not deny you any of the PT or OT depending on your connection to each trilogy. Ultimately, these movies will be looked at by fans as a 9 movie saga with each fan connected on a spiritual and emotional level to one trilogy specifically.

    I may love the ST and I may love TLJ and TFA, but I sincerely doubt there will ever be a Star Wars movie that will touch me the way Empire did. It's why Empire for all time will be my favorite. It's why when I watch it still today I tear up. I get chills every time the Falcon dodges asteroids and I pump my fist every time R2 opens the landing pad door on Bespin. In fact I was 8 months old when A New Hope came out. I love A New Hope, but because I was more aware of the world in 1980 than 1977, Empire is more emotionally connected to me than A New Hope.

    The ST may end up being a better overall trilogy, than the OT, but in my mind with an emotional connection, it will never match the OT. It can't. I'm not a kid any longer. It's why I can look at a movie like TPM and have a stronger attachment to it than say Rogue One, but Rogue One is a better "movie." To often fans nowadays look at these movies as either its good or it sucks. But, they continually refuse to watch the movies with a sense of wonder and a belief in magic. It's why I don't like spoilers. I spoiled myself for the the second two movies of the PT and thus the magic for me was lost and thus my emotional connection suffered. I still love the movies, but, they don't have the same omph. TPM I didn't spoil myself and I watched it opening my mind to it like a kid. Obviously I'm not a kid so it still didn't reach ST levels but I still love it more than the other two PT films.

    Which brings me to the ST. I chose not to be spoiled and I have loved every second of the films. Are they perfect? No. Do they make choices that I question? Of course. But, I love them because I watched for the wonder and magic that is Star Wars - not to confirm my entitlement.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  12. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    Posts:
    3,730
    Likes Received:
    10,805
    Trophy Points:
    144,177
    Credits:
    22,983
    Ratings:
    +15,336 / 90 / -29
    This, THIS is true...in my opinion.

    I saw the OT in theaters, and it was like nothing that the world had ever seen...ever, and frankly, it defined a generation of fans likely to never replicated. It is something that will always be chased, but never caught.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    2,424
    Likes Received:
    2,881
    Trophy Points:
    11,367
    Credits:
    6,265
    Ratings:
    +7,072 / 405 / -285
    Its delusion to even consider putting the ST and PT films on the same level as the OT.
     
    #33 SKB, Jun 7, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Posts:
    374
    Likes Received:
    3,539
    Trophy Points:
    12,942
    Credits:
    5,453
    Ratings:
    +4,039 / 32 / -11
    Talk to kids from the PT era films. They consider the PT to be the best. Of course there are outliers in this, but I had more kids wanting to watch Revenge of the Sith and The Phantom Menace than any of the OT films. (I ended up showing TFA because of the hero's journey aspect of Rey, because that fits a literature class)
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  15. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Posts:
    283
    Likes Received:
    221
    Trophy Points:
    742
    Credits:
    466
    Ratings:
    +455 / 141 / -146
    these are all poor excuses for why the ST is inferior. NO amounts of firsts will stop a new star wars trilogy from surpassing the OT one day if effort is applied. The dark knight returns, Rebirth superman, a song of ice and fire, Even lord of the rings(a sequel to the hobbit and overshadowed it almost completely) all prove that the OT can be easily beaten when actual thought is put in the story and you let go of your "it cannot be done" mindset.

    Something that was not put into this trilogy
     
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  16. Ruralfarmboy

    Ruralfarmboy Jedi General

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2017
    Posts:
    2,452
    Likes Received:
    42,330
    Trophy Points:
    160,217
    Credits:
    21,089
    Ratings:
    +44,152 / 20 / -17
  17. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2015
    Posts:
    1,416
    Likes Received:
    2,585
    Trophy Points:
    10,967
    Credits:
    3,866
    Ratings:
    +4,064 / 26 / -18
    All those examples are your opinion which I respect but it doesn't speak for everyone. Others have different opinions. No one is above the other. The mindset that needs to be let go is that everyone shares your opinion of the ST.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  18. Darth Brooks

    Darth Brooks Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2015
    Posts:
    119
    Likes Received:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    1,772
    Credits:
    837
    Ratings:
    +412 / 9 / -0
    The ST will never be considered "better" than the OT because of the history of those films. But in terms of production quality, the ST is clearly the best we've gotten so far. Writing, Directing, Acting, Cinematography, Editing, Visual Effects...across the board they are at least better made movies.

    Are the characters as meaningful or the stories as iconic? The fans will never allow them to be. They will always live in shadow of the giants that came before them, just as much as they will stand on their shoulders. I find it especially interesting that the meta narrative of the trilogy is about that very thing.

    I (obviously) agree that the OT is miles above the PT, and I still prefer it to the ST. But we should really try to have some perspective and remember that the OT is filled with faults and cringe-worthy moments, and we just look past them because the universe that is Star Wars is so awesome and incredible. Most of what we love about those films are just the basic concepts of this world, not necessarily the execution of each film on a technical level. The originals were groundbreaking movies, but they were hardly ever being taken as seriously by the studio as the ST is. Whatever your opinion on the current films is, I think it's clear that the effort and talent being put into the new movies is the highest it's ever been.

    To me that's a reason to be excited for the prospect of new good Star Wars movies rather than get defensive that the original movies, aka "my" Star Wars, will always be the best trilogy.
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...

Share This Page