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How to cure foolish misguided bad guys like Kylo or Hux?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by oldbert, Mar 26, 2016.

?

Whatt to do with guys like Kylo or Hux?

  1. Put them in the trash compactor together with Phasma

    6 vote(s)
    22.2%
  2. Arrest them in an old Jedi temple together with Yoda as their strict force ghost teacher

    4 vote(s)
    14.8%
  3. Just find a wife for them and they will be cured from everything just fine

    10 vote(s)
    37.0%
  4. Give them a job as simple technicians and they soon will be cured of their arrogance

    9 vote(s)
    33.3%
  5. There is just no hope at all for them

    5 vote(s)
    18.5%
  6. sthg else

    7 vote(s)
    25.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

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    Well, that's true, now isn't it? "Killing off Luke and Rey, and then he can spend his days... Solo.

    Yes, I agree -any competent officer could do his job, and on some level he knows this. Hux know's he is expendable in toilet fish monster's eyes.
     
    #41 RockyRoadHux, Jul 31, 2016
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  2. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    @RockyRoadCHu. A cool one:"..staying S O L O.."! What a bad destiny for poory fury RenniBenni.. SOLO forever :)
     
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  3. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    maybe that's Hux's next goal.

    having narrowly escaped total disaster and death with Starkiller, maybe he'll come back trying to find a way to make himself literally invaluable in some way.
     
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  4. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

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    He is already the best the FO has to offer (and if Snoke kills him off the Resistance would send a "Thank you" card) and still he is
    replaceable, so maybe there will be another revelation about his past? His past is probably the key, I guess . After all his character is the biggest connection we have to the New Order and how it has influenced the FO.
     
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  5. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    if Rax and Snoke have anything in common it's that they both want Hux for something. Hux is competent and loyal and zealous. he may be replaceable, but for Snoke it's just as easy (easier) to keep him in command, i would think.

    to try to steer this back to the "misguidedness" of the characters, you have to wonder whether Hux does have some special value in that he was groomed from birth for this position and he is a general despite his youth. he's either an evil genius or there's something more to him. either way it doesn't seem like he's ever been on any course except the present one and that might make all the difference between him and Ren in terms of any hope of "curing" him.
     
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  6. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

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    Absolutely agree, it seems like he is dead set on this course. But as far as we know Brendol blasted up a perfectly good kid. It's not like he was evil to begin with, he was probably brainwashed ( Wookieepedia: combination of psychological manipulation and pharmaceutical conditioning) just like any other Stormtrooper recruit... How can one cure these guys?
     
    #46 RockyRoadHux, Jul 31, 2016
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  7. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    Finn has shown a possible way. If a critical number of troopers loses their faith in being on the right mission during traumatic war scenes, there could be a time when a silent revolution starts from the lowest ranks. But I don't know how this would effect Hux at the end. He could be a candidate for a dramatic "last man standing" scene.
     
    #47 oldbert, Jul 31, 2016
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  8. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    so back when @oldbert posted this thread, we didn't actually know much about Hux.

    we knew his father was a commandant who spearheaded the stormtrooper program.
    then we found out he was a bastard and that said father thinks very little of him.
    now we know that Brendol and little Armitty hate one another, that Brendol very most likely abuses the kid (he's 4!).
    and we know Gallius Rax is the one who has empowered this very small child with life and death decisions over other child soldiers.

    does it change the picture for any of you the way it has changed it for me?

    i still think Hux will likely perish in the ST (episode ix most likely ~ he'll probably go down with the Finalizer).
    but i certainly empathize with him in a way i never imagined possible. : o (

    i'm not a j.m. barrie fan (probably for this very reason!).
    does anyone remember whether the lost boys eventually found their way home?
    because the FO is in dire need of wendys.
     
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  9. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    My hope is that Millicent will lead those who are willing to run away to her hideaway where Finn is waiting. Afterwards they escape with an old freighter of Han Solo to one of the secret ancient temple planets on which Luke has achieved new knowledge long ago. Ben Skywalker awaits them and they start with the most ambitious group therapy ever seen in the Unknown regions of the GFFA :D
     
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  10. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    True that! As to your question, I'm pretty sure that Peter kills the Lost Boys in the original tales (Disney skipped this bit).

    I guess Hux rules the FO in a similar way to how Peter ruled Neverland. Interestingly Peter and the Lost Boys remain children by by deliberately forgetting all their adventures - including the ones where they killed all those indians.

    Maybe that's why I respect Finn so much. At least he somehow managed to find a way to own his decisions and as a result we get to see him grow up!
     
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  11. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Use the trash compactor.
     
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  12. FN-3263827

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    well i looked it up and you'd be surprised to know that they aren't killed (and they don't do any killing either--at least not in the original source material).
    in fact, they go home and grow up--and into respectable lives for the most part. the violence in Peter Pan was intended as child's violence (as any kid plays at killing--none of it was permanent or real in Neverland). once again, it's the warped mind of adults that turns it into something darker than it is.

    nonetheless, i still agree with this.

    but if there's any chance that the FO is nothing but a pack of wild "Lost Boys", does that mean there's hope to rescue them? to reform them? to fix what Palpatine and Rax and the voice from the Unknown Regions has wrought?
     
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  13. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    I'm not sure what source material you looked at but I remember plenty of killing going on between pirates, Indians, Peter, and the Lost Boys in J.M.Barrie's original Peter and Wendy. The passage I was thinking of was:
    Maybe he "thins them out" by feeding them to the crocodiles? Even if he somehow doesn't thin them out by killing them outright (exile maybe?) this is not
    There is no doubt Peter is a killer and he hates grown-ups - Lost Boys or no...
    His killing often went hand-in-hand with either a bad memory or a cavalier attitude toward his victims...
    And there's other disturbingly anti-social behaviour...
    :eek::eek::eek:
    I hope so. Hux and the FO soldiers could be seen as abducted children who deserve some sympathy and the same could be said of the Lost Boys (I don't know why Peter was the way he was). Even worse, the FO are not only victims of abuse but might be seen as brainwashed child-soldiers.

    I pity Hux and the FO soldiers in the same way I do Captain Hook and the pirates. They are portrayed as the "bad" warriors and they all do despicable things like kill the "good" warriors ("Red Indians" and Resistance fighters) but they don't know any better and are also victims/survivors too.

    After all, the Pirates were once Lost Boys only when they grew up they managed to escape (before Peter could "thin them out"?) just like Finn! I wholehearted agree with your comparison though: too many lost boys, too few Wendy's!

    (edited for grammar)
     
    #53 Moral Hazard, Mar 7, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
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  14. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i ain't saying Peter Pan and Wendy isn't chock-full of disturbing rhetoric ~ it's why, as i mentioned originally, i don't like the book and haven't read it since i was a kid. what i'm saying is that in the context of Neverland this is "killing" in the same vein as children express violent-mindedness all the time. it can be read literally, but it's not necessarily literal.

    and "thins them out" could certainly mean killing, but also could mean killing in the Ben Solo "was weak and foolish like his father" sort of way. Neverland is a psychological landscape--just as fairies are not real, the killing isn't either on a certain level: how many times did you die and kill others as a child? hundreds? thousands? i know i was very violent-minded as even a small kid ~ hahahaha

    nevertheless, we agree on this and that's what's important because the killing in Star Wars is real, and yes, it's why i think the FO are the Lost Boys.
    they have no moral concept of consequence.
    and i still can't believe that more people aren't completely freaked out and disturbed by all this.
    especially since the hope of them getting a wendy feels so dang thin.

    i'm upset enough about Ben Solo.
    yes, Finn escaped, and maybe he will lead a rebellion, but this feels so unfair.
    people like Hux and Phasma--there's almost no hope for them. : o (
     
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  15. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    Fair enough, the text does leave it open to interpretation. I'm still mulling over your comparison of Hux and the FO with Peter, Wendy and the Lost Boys - I think it's wonderful and inspired!
    Good point! Neverland always seemed like an imaginary dream-like world where real-world physics don't apply and characters can explore consequence free adventures.

    Funny how you didn't like the book and I loved it as a kid - but then I didn't read it myself. Some of my fondness memories of my father were his reading us kids classics like Peter and Wendy, The Wind and The Willows, Pippi Longstocking, Huckleberry Finn, Tom Sawyer, Br'er Rabbit etc. When I re-visit these stories as an adult I'm sometimes disturbed by the levels of violence and racism yet this never factored into my childhood perspective and was likely a product of their times. Maybe my father would edit as he read, maybe it was all over my head, or perhaps I was just too distracted by his enthusiastic character voices to notice the darkness?

    (As an off-topic aside, it was a great life lesson to me of the importance of reading to little ones - the many fatherly failings of my dad fade away but his making time to read us classic fairy-tales remains strong - READ TO YOUR KIDS EVERYONE! :) He died (a good death) just before TFA came out which was specifically disheartening as a SW lover - I had watched his excitement build with the teaser and trailiers (he adored the OT and it's cast) and I was looking forward to seeing TFA with him. You can imaging my reaction when Kylo ended his father in the movie and I had to leave the theater with two fatherly holes fresh in mind :eek:)
    I also hadn't thought that maybe Peter's constant forgetting was a defense mechanism as a way of escaping having to deal with death and consequences (incidentally he forgot Tinkerbell too.) I still wonder how the FO troopers are desensitised and why Finn was so exceptional. I love how a Tumblr post drew attention to these Lost Boys ↓

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The recognition
    The start of it all
    The man fighting off the light acknowledging the man fighting off the dark
    They start with fire around them fully masked and end in the snow literally face to face

    source
    Me too. I guess the general audience doesn't know Hux's backstory so he would appear as a one-dimensional villain. The child-soldier harvesting is probably easily overlooked as well.

    (edit: corrected tumblr mis-quote)
     
    #55 Moral Hazard, Mar 7, 2017
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  16. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    the violence never fazed me as a kid (nor the racism to be honest), but we grew up with a healthy understanding of the difference between a story and the real world. we were also taught from a very age that there are no bad guys. i specifically remember watching some Disney movie (it was probably Tonka) and asking my mother who were the good guys and who were the bad guys (the indians vs. the soldiers basically; the story is, in part, about the Battle of the Little Big Horn). and she very patiently explained how no one is good or bad and how wars are fought for things people believe in, etc.

    anyway, i was disturbed by Peter Pan because the idea of being stuck in Neverland with a creep like Peter was horrifying and it wasn't lost to me that Captain Hook and Mr. Darling were personified so similarly, and that motherless children in general were just a sad miserable lot.

    awwww, i hope your father would have liked TFA in spite of Han Solo's death, and what wonderful memories you have of him. yes, parents should read to their kids. it makes a world of difference. to this day i love reading with other people and sharing books this way. i had an amazing gradeschool librarian and teachers who continued this trend all the way through high school (Ms. Varela, Ms. Mulkern, Ms. Mac, Ms. Long: all amazing saints of readings)! i would have story hour every day if i could get like-minded souls together to do it!


    i love that observation about the masks and the confrontation between those two. i love Finn! because he is antipodal. i have always thought that Ren's rage when he finds out about FN-2187 is self-directed because he saw Finn resist this Darkness and some deep part of him is jealous of Finn's pure strength of will.

    as for poor Hux, yes, his story isn't well known and the general audience may never hear it. and in the film even Finn sort of plays off his abduction: he seems in no hurry to go find his family as opposed to Rey who sits and waits for hers. so i'm not sure where they are going with this, but as i have mentioned to @RockyRoadHux endlessly, if it's not addressed in the ST, i feel like it will be a huge injustice.
     
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  17. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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  18. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Cures? Simple. Death.
     
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  19. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    You feel like a bright shining supernova momentarely @Darth Basin The Greatest, don't you?
    I think you will find your happiness again soon.
    Perhaps you will like SOLO, who knows :D
     
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  20. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    I already like Solo better then 7 & 8 & i haven't seen it yet?

    Maybe cuz I'm a Saga Master with years of experiences & craving "good old nostalgia" while your a Saga Youngling who dosent know better? ;)
     
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