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How to cure foolish misguided bad guys like Kylo or Hux?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by oldbert, Mar 26, 2016.

?

Whatt to do with guys like Kylo or Hux?

  1. Put them in the trash compactor together with Phasma

    6 vote(s)
    22.2%
  2. Arrest them in an old Jedi temple together with Yoda as their strict force ghost teacher

    4 vote(s)
    14.8%
  3. Just find a wife for them and they will be cured from everything just fine

    10 vote(s)
    37.0%
  4. Give them a job as simple technicians and they soon will be cured of their arrogance

    9 vote(s)
    33.3%
  5. There is just no hope at all for them

    5 vote(s)
    18.5%
  6. sthg else

    7 vote(s)
    25.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    it feels like he almost has to wind up in a rogue place: not with the FO nor the Rebels.
    i am almost certain Hux will manage to oust him. interesting thought that he does it with the KoR! : o O
     
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  2. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    I agree with both of you about Ren being in extremely "unsafe" state at the moment. Enemy Nr 1 for the resistance and a well behated leader for Hux and therefore for the whole FO. He follows his very own agenda. He doesn' t really care about anyone else. Troops and also Hux; they are just tools for him. Useful as long he can use them for his mission.
    This all makes him the lonliest person in the GFFA.
     
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  3. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    exactly! literally nobody is on his side but briefly Rey; and he botched that. : o p

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    Could play out a bit as a come down for Mister "Supreme" in IX.
    The world is very empty place if you "kill" (real kills and "love kills") everything and everybody around you. Nobody left to rule then.
    ...Big need for "nobodies" then I would say. :D
     
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  5. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

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    And yet...it is the exact way most people deal with the pain in their lives. Not facing it but trying to kill it instead.
    (I kid about flying Hux, it actually disturbed me somewhat and I thought it unnecessary from Kylo's side. I have serious issues with bullies and there Kylo looked farthest from Ben than in any other situation)

    @FN-3263827
    See, if any if that was incorporated in canon material, or just a hint of anything of that in the movies I would have felt compassion towards Hux.
    But you got me thinking nonetheless what is his official backstory? It could be that of abuse from early childhood. But it could also be a white privileged kid (Armitage is kinda old arustocratuc family name?) who is just nothing more than a sociopath just because he is and doesn't value human life and not because he suffered traumatic experiences as an orphan kid.
     
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  6. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    exactly. this is part of why is bothered me so much too. it was extreme and unnecessary, i thought.
    as far as i'm concerned, this has been Ben's worst behavior because it's pure cruelty.

    well...it but it is canon.

    he was taken from his mother when he was four.
    all we know about her is that she was a kitchen maid.
    he was physically and psychologically abused by his father, who beat him and belittled him for being a bastard useless pants-wetting little sniveler.
    he was thereafter groomed by Gallius Rax to believe he should be Emperor (or at least Rax planted that notion in his head).

    we don't know what happened to him between then and finally killing his father some twenty+ years later (in Dawson's Phasma novel).
    but with a start like that, it's hard to imagine it ever got better for him. : o p
     
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  7. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

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    Oh...my apologies then. I thought EU is not canon.

    This is food for thought though.
     
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  8. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i agree with you: i wish somehow this was evident in the movies.
    without it, as has been mentioned throughout this thread; there's so so so little hope for Hux. : o p
     
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  9. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    There will be a moment when he realises that he was wrong, but it will be already too late then. Get your tissues ready, @FN-3263827. This won't end well for Kylo.
     
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  10. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    it's never too late, though.
    that's what he's wrong about.
     
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  11. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

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    I would like to think that already happened when Rey closed the door on him. His father's lucky dice dissapearing from his hands at that moment quite literally envisoned how something he wanted slipped through his fingers because of the choices he made.
    His fate is still unclear to me. Somedays I expect he'll die, others I see him exiled or lost beyond the outer rim/presumed dead. Not sure he can have happily ever after.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 4, 2018 ---
    Never too late for redemption, but most definitely there is a definite too late for happy end.
     
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  12. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    not really, no. people can find happiness beyond their trauma and their crime and their pain and fear and anger.
    that's for Ben to sort out. not us. i mean, we can judge him all we want, but he's the one who has to live with it all.
    and i hardly think he'd choose to honor his family's sacrifices by going about in sackcloth and ashes.
    that's not what they want for him. : o p
     
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  13. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    I got a cure for him

    giphy (26).gif
     
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  14. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

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    Not sure he would have the choice. I can see him coming to terms with what he has done. I am just not sure that the world around him will be as forgiving no matter what he does to redeem himself. Partly because they are not privy to his inner turmoil. All apart from Rey, that is. And not sure how productive would be if she defended him.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 4, 2018 ---
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i guess i ask: what difference does it make? even if he and Rey are all alone in the world in terms of understanding him, what does it matter?
    part of the fanbase will already forgive him pretty much no matter what. another portion might be convinced after ix? and then there will be those who will damn him for all his days regardless of what happens. same is true of the other characters in the gffa.

    it's not an all-or-nothing proposition.
    how we independently feel about him has no bearing on his own feelings about himself.
    and we don't get to decide whether he's redeemed or happy; it's not a mathematical problem with a determined outcome.

    x(murders) + y(patricide) ÷ apology/forgiveness = unhappily ever after (because reasons)

    i don't think he's gonna dance out of this trilogy with a cheerful song in his heart, but i do think he will end it on a note of hope: that whatever his new life is, it will be about building something instead of destroying; about living in peace and harmony instead of constant fear and anger.

    if the goal of the Force is balance. then this is what it wants too.
     
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  16. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    All this jibber jabber and we all know it's gonna come down to Lando standing over a sniveling, cowering Ren....



    ;)
     
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  17. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    that's Hux, not Ren! goofball.

    digression: my sister and i went to see True Grit in the theatre and when it got to that scene where they cut Hux's fingers off, she and i both busted out laughing uncontrollably. we'd literally watched two movies right before in which people had their fingers cut off ~ and going into the threatre, she said to me: well, at least no one is going to lose their fingers. i'm sure the rest of the audience thought we were insane. hahahaha

    p.s. it's Unca Wanwo! XD
     
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  18. Sparafucile

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    Kylo would be a strange case to try and cure.

    You know he wasn't raised to think and do what he's been doing. At the same time you know Snoke did something to him psychologically. I guess I see Kylo as someone who has some severe mental disability that he can't always control his impulses and is prone to fits of rage. Add superpowers and it's even more frightening. Whatever Snoke did I think it's permanent, so in a way he can't be cured. Even if he'd choose the light side, I think his fits of rage and emotional control will always be a part of him. The only caveat I'd see is if whatever Snoke did to you him was more physical (played with his brain by use of the Force) then maybe meds or treatment ... as there might be similar stuff that some doctors would be able to make a treatment plan on. But if it was just opening pathways, making him see things, then that stuff is permanent and short of a lobotomy, he's probably always going to be prone to behaving the way he does. (it would not be an enviable job to have to work with Kylo to regulate his meds lol)

    That said, if Vader could redeem himself, Kylo probably could too, I just wouldn't be able to buy Kylo becoming a Jedi and following that code (or something similar). I don't think he'd be able to maintain goodness for any length of time, but he could do a heroic act before dying.

    This being SW, I guess if Rey went dark, maybe the Force would work within him to turn light? I don't see them going this way though. Nothing but the slightest and long reaching clues that Rey could go dark, and I don't believe Disney would make their princess turn evil (for all the little girls who look up to her, if nothing else).

    As for Hux, I guess it depends if this is all him or if Snoke did something to him too. If it's all him (and the unfortunate events of his childhood) then there's probably hope, but it would probably be tough considering he's used to this for so many years. This is normal for him.

    In both cases, they'd only find their cure in prisons or institution, and have no chance of parole or freedom. So there isn't much incentive for them to go light and try and be good guys.
     
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  19. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

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    It makes a difference. Because no man is an island and we all live in world in which we not only have to interact with others but also we often have to suffer the consequences of other people's judgements of our charachters. Specially if people that do the judging and accusing hold the possition of power in a society. The 'weak' followers will follow the instruction of the (often selfproclaimed) authorities instead of thinking for themselves. So if Kylo continues to live in the world where people continue to judge him, his redemption will never be absolute. Even if he disavows the world after his redemption story in st finishes and goes into self exile. He will always be tainted by the way others (falsly) percieve him.

    And I wasn't refering to the judgement of the fanbase. He is a fictional charachter that resides in a fictional world. I was refering to the judgement of the charachters residing in this fictional world alongside him. Although one can argue that through fanservicing processes that ate unavoidable in modern movie making the fictional charachters are just the continuation of the way real life people think of Kylo and talk of Kylo on forums and such.

    Also, do not confuse redemption in the eyes of the others with his own, lets call it self redemption. That one I guess could be absolute, although I can't really see him ever comming to terms with what he did. (Talking about killing his father here, of course). He will always regret that. Always.

    And I agree...no riding off to sunset for this one. I would settle for absence of pain. Pain and lonelyness, feeling of abandonment are his primal denominators. Not fear or anger. Those are secondary and only consequential of the abovementioned.
    The way I see it, he can only find a balance within another...who will take away the loneliness and solve his abandonment issues.
    Will it be that way? I don't know. But I hope.
     
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  20. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i think you may be misunderstanding me.

    it absolutely makes no difference to Ben (in story or out) what other people think of him.
    the whole point is how he sees himself.
    and once he's centered and balanced and has forgiven himself, the judgment of others is irrelevant.

    and for the record, i don't think Ben needs another person to "take away the loneliness".
    but it is an outward sign of his healing for him to connect to and form meaningful/trustful relationships with other people.

    the problem i see with some arguments is that they suggest Ben finding happiness (or, God forbid love), is somehow rewarding him in spite of past bad behavior.
    as if he never deserves to be happy ever again.
    when you talk about living in a world in which we have to interact with others, this is not how it works.
    people forgive each other all the time. people move on in their lives from bad decisions (and the bad decisions of others) all the time.
    this idea of living in sackcloth and ashes and regret like a pariah in abject misery for the rest of one's days is really medieval.
    the world actually is a much more vast and forgiving place. and the galaxy is that x1000 or more.

    and frankly, Star Wars even more so than that. look at Agent Kallus.
     
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