1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

How to "save" the sequel trilogy

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by darth sputnik, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. darth sputnik

    darth sputnik Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Posts:
    109
    Likes Received:
    300
    Trophy Points:
    1,842
    Credits:
    935
    Ratings:
    +464 / 13 / -2
    I'm a bit of a TLJ defender, but I also see why it upset so many hardcore SW fans. IMHO it's a well-made film (with a few caveats) that is somewhat dismissive of what "real" fans wanted from the Skywalker saga. Basically, I'm torn on the film --- I genuinely believe it is a competently made movie, but I also have my reservations as to whether it served the overall story arc well.

    So my question is this: what can JJ Abrams do to make the sequel trilogy feel like a genuine (and successful) part of the overall 9 film saga?

    My suggestion (as redundant and cliche as it may seem) is that somehow Snoke is revealed to be Plagueis. The Snoke death definitely upset a lot a fans (myself included, on some levels) and making him Plagueis would go a long way toward A) at least giving him a backstory B) making him relevant to the overall 9 film arc and C) making Kylo appear even more powerful than we ever imagined.

    It's such a simple fix and would provide so many satisfying answers to things.

    But what do I know? I'm not a writer. This is just may hope as a fan.


    What are your ideas?
     
    • Like Like x 9
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  2. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,802
    Likes Received:
    102,422
    Trophy Points:
    171,517
    Credits:
    55,674
    Ratings:
    +110,945 / 173 / -32
    But what would this change for the overall story? Snoke (then Plagueis) is still dead. It would only work if he returns from the dead. But unless that I agree with you. Giving Snoke some kind of backstory could help. Maybe JJ can show us a flashback scene of Snoke seducing Ben Solo or something like that.

    In my opinion JJ needs to adress the KOR, the relationship between Kylo and his mother and the relationship between him and Hux. Then it could become a great film.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Wise Wise x 2
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 2
  3. atreides602

    atreides602 Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2017
    Posts:
    175
    Likes Received:
    290
    Trophy Points:
    1,642
    Credits:
    925
    Ratings:
    +477 / 10 / -9
    Bring Snoke back ( somehow ) , give him a back story ( not necesarily darth Plagueis ) , he kills Ben , then Ray will face the same dilema Luke had to face in rotj , she feels the hate towards Snoke ( maybe Snoke kills Ben in front of her), she is aware that could lead her to the dark side, she is also aware that she may need the dark side to defeat Snoke , decisions bla bla, JJ will take it from here :D.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. Shaun Sannerude

    Shaun Sannerude Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Posts:
    105
    Likes Received:
    279
    Trophy Points:
    1,297
    Credits:
    752
    Ratings:
    +407 / 0 / -0
    I don't think the ST needs saving at all. With episode VIII being the middle film of a trilogy we don't yet know the greater picture of the story arc and how everything fits. Once episode IX has released people's perceptions of VIII may very well change. With episode VII ending with Rey meeting Luke we knew that episode VIII had to follow straight after in the timeline and it would have been weird to have a time jump. Therefore VIII's story has to seamlessly fit with this. Basically this means it would have been a struggle fit in the KOR and a backstory to Snoke unless they put in flash backs which creatively they might not have had time to do so. I'm pretty sure the KOR will feature in IX but whether we ever get to learn more about Snoke I'm not so sure.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  5. Too Gon Onbourbon

    Too Gon Onbourbon Rebel General

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Posts:
    352
    Likes Received:
    608
    Trophy Points:
    4,072
    Credits:
    1,058
    Ratings:
    +803 / 7 / -9
    I think...eff Snoke and Plaegus as well. My actual impression in real time was Palpatine was lying just to hornswaggle Anakin anyway.

    I also believe Snoke was lying about creating Rey and Kylo's force bond and it actually was cause by Kylo's mind probe or even just the will of the force.

    Furthermore, this trilogy doesn't need any saving to me. The Force Awakens is a great time and The Last Jedi is a grand slam falling just short of The Empire Strikes Back for me because it isn't as tight and seamless but it is within reach of what I consider to be the pinnacle of cinema.
    The only times I have been equally awestruck my first viewing in a movie theater were Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back but only I am no longer a little kid. That blows me away, I knew the feeling instantly though it was buried decades down.

    I'm telling you, it is hard not to just outright declare Last Jedi my very favorite film and at least subjectively the best movie on the strength of being able to evoke such a powerful reaction.

    Now we are in a place of seemingly infinite possibilities. When folks recover their legs under them those that love the speculation will have their game raised from who questions to the much meatier what and why ones with characters especially. What they are and why they are such as well as why they do what they do. Not just pin the tail on the donkey.

    Many would maybe have better perspective if they didn't worry about the trilogy format. The Star Wars saga should just continue as creators have stories to tell. You got a one off? Fine. Just need two films? Go pictures. Want to dona trilogy? That's cool. Want four or five? We can do that too if you have that much meat on the bones.

    Take away the focus on goalposts and transition to a horizon mentality and the game changes substantially. We have done well not being caught up in linear storytelling for the most part so far now let's evolve beyond an artificial limit on the structure.

    Sometimes one or three just doesn't work best. I believe very, very strongly the prequels were best served by at least four films once you commit to a child Anakin chapter. You can't and do it properly retroactively fill in the Clone Wars with a cartoon.

    The Dark Knight went from about to be the hunted and hated hero to we come back to broken down and retired. How great would a movie of him actually being the dark knight be? I think pretty great though you killed a great vilian for the story and your other's actor dies in real life so that was tough but the real obstacle was slavery to the structure.

    Then you have The Hobbit that requires for unknown reasons even with the benefit of hindsight to adapt a 276 page book and to do so most passably the extended editions are required, particularly Smaug.

    This bloated effort in two movies trimmed up and not seemingly getting bogged up for almost three hours of screen time to advance a single chapter of the book would have been a truly great experience and a tremendous amount of fun.

    This current Star Wars story might not be a week in universe time so far of course it would seem tough to wrap everything up in satisfying fashion in a couple of hours because this thread has seemingly just begun.
    Even if this story has got the purtiest silk ribbon bow you can imagine tied on it it the micro, the level of disruption in the galaxy is off the meter, it is hard for the what happens next if explored to be less compelling that what happened despite me being more than pleased with it.

    I feel we are closer to the beginning than the end. In fact, maybe we are just approaching the end of the act or even just the prologue.
     
    • Like x 4
    • Great Post x 4
    • Wise x 1
    • Informative x 1
    • Clouded x 1
    • Cocky x 1
  6. panki

    panki Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2017
    Posts:
    343
    Likes Received:
    471
    Trophy Points:
    2,792
    Credits:
    1,058
    Ratings:
    +762 / 12 / -3
    I think the last jedi was visually excellent but there were too many inconsistencies between the movie and existing canon. First, I think they need to first use other media to bridge any inconsistencies. Honestly, I don't care about Snoke's backstory but we need an explanation regarding what is going on...what happened to Kylo after the jedi temple massacre? where are the knights of ren? who are these allies in the outer rim who Zay was sent to locate?

    I am also extremely dissatisfied with Rey's backstory.....while her parents being nobodies is still okay, factors like Rey being in a battle dress as a little girl in her force vision, her marking down each day of her being on Jakku on the walls of her AT-AT home, her saying she was left behind by mistake in Rey's Survival Guide as well as her watching a ship (the family ship in the Art of TFA) fly off does not amount to random scavengers selling her off for drink and her being aware of it. While I don't want some great force lineage reveal, I hope they at least clean up at backstory to some extent.

    There should also be more interaction between Rey, Finn and Poe.....they are the ST3 and marketed as such....the PT3 (Obi, Anakin and Padme) and the OT3 (Luke, Han and Leia) had much more interaction so hopefully they'll spend more time together in episode 9.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  7. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    4,056
    Likes Received:
    14,158
    Trophy Points:
    144,267
    Credits:
    13,831
    Ratings:
    +19,058 / 303 / -96
    I would hate this for a variety of reasons.
    A) Snoke is dead
    B) His death and the fight afterward is one of the best parts of The Last Jedi
    C) Revisiting his origin at this point in the story is rather useless
    D) Most casual Star Wars fans have no idea who Plagueis is and would be baffled.

    I don't think this trilogy needs saving. Fisher passing away is a huge blow to whatever was planned, but there's enough threads to tie up to make a satisfying closing chapter.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  8. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    141,358
    Trophy Points:
    173,077
    Credits:
    68,837
    Ratings:
    +157,681 / 65 / -7
    i think the ST needs no saving, but i hope it course corrects on a couple of things:
    • make Hux a force to be reckoned with. he had all the makings of it in TFA, but Johnson tore him down too far.
    • i get the point they were trying to make with Canto Bight, but the war should be about the people, not animals (even if they are cute).
    • the Benperor needs a better costume (oh please).
    • Finn and Poe need to work together to do something super cool.
    and i hope they come up with a creative and satisfying and balanced way to finish Leia's story. : o (
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 1
  9. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Posts:
    3,384
    Likes Received:
    15,618
    Trophy Points:
    144,707
    Credits:
    15,298
    Ratings:
    +20,518 / 72 / -32
    I disagree. I am actually of belief that in Episode IX they should not return to his portrayal from TFA. But why, you may ask? Here's the reason. In TFA, he's a little Hitler but it was portrayed as "cool." The thing is, Hitler was a sad person and there was nothing cool about him. In TLJ, he still acts like little Hitler, but this time it was portrayed as pathetic and that's absolutely fantastic. There's nothing cool in being a space Nazi. If you want to win a war, you have to act like a general, not like an ideologist. He will be a force to be reckoned because he'll stop acting like a little dictator. He has no papa Snoke to watch his back and give him a peptalk when something goes wrong. That's also partially why Captain Canady and Captain Peavey are the two coolest First Order characters - they act like officers.
    That war effort and destruction caused by it is pointless unless it directly helps the ones that are directly affected by the people we fight with? Because if people believe that TLJ is some kind of manifesto against Ascot then I don't really agree with that...
    #BringBackTheGoldenBathrobe ;)
    Let's take it a step further - I want our main quintet (Rey, Finn, Poe, Chewie and Rose) to do together something cool.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Cool Cool x 1
  10. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Posts:
    4,391
    Likes Received:
    5,585
    Trophy Points:
    16,317
    Credits:
    6,685
    Ratings:
    +9,458 / 246 / -104
    I don't think it needs saving. It works as it is. I find the disconnects people make between what JJ did and what Rian did completely rubbish. Rian dotted the I's and crossed the T's JJ planted. The notion that Rian changed too much is people unsatisfied with the film running with a random news story about directorial freedom and using as an explanation. Example. Rey was always no one. She was never a Skywalker. Maz makes that point gently. Daisy is amazed her parents are still a question after the TFA was over. Rey Random was baked in the cake. People can't get over the person on the hero's journey not being related. You can't please them at this point.

    Stop with Plagueis poor guy is dead. Brining him back doesn't connect things. It diminishes Palpatine, and Anakin. You can't save the ST by making the PT and OT villains second class. Further any focus on Snoke suggests that Ben isn't really the problem (Which 2 films have shown him to be). He is the BIG BAD EVIL GUY. Always has been. People mistook apprentice with insignificant. Before the opening crawl of TFA we already knew. Kylo Ren betrayed Luke and destroyed his students breaking his expected future "to pass on what he has learned." Ben's betrayal put that in serious jeopardy. When we saw the film we were faced with confirmation with Ben also being the reason that Han and Leia are not living happily ever after. The pirate and the princess couldn't keep it together. WHY? Kylo Ren. Then we saw Kylo kill his father. In TLJ we saw Kylo surpass his master, take his throne, reject redemption offered by Rey and double down on the EVIL.

    I don't mean to dis those that dislike the ST but their complaints are backed in. (honestly not tryintg to love you guys) The biggest complaint of TFA is that 's a rehash of ANH. The biggest complaint with TLJ is that it mishandled Luke. Apparently he was supposed to be a god like super being to take on the whole 1st Order with a laser sword just like Rey thought. Those things already happened. The second you can't fix. The first is a matter of taste.

    Honestly I think that at this point they are 2 films in and they should have a better pulse of fan opinion. They should be better at managing expectations by better defining what has already happened. Poor Pablo does this a lot. He really tries but people still just dismiss things in favor of their pet theories. But I think they might do better grounding things by defining what has already happened. If you have paid attention to Rian Johnson interviews he actively shuts down some lines of thought rather than leave them speculative.
     
    • Like x 4
    • Great Post x 4
    • Disagree x 3
    • Wise x 1
    • Cool x 1
  11. Son Of A Sith

    Son Of A Sith Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2017
    Posts:
    116
    Likes Received:
    840
    Trophy Points:
    6,542
    Credits:
    1,287
    Ratings:
    +1,005 / 11 / -6
    The question that needs to be asked is not what JJ should do, but what can we do as fans?

    My idea: People need to refrain from hating and complaining, about anything.

    At least publicly.

    Totally not ever going to happen, I know.

    I wish people would just let them do whatever they want and then enjoy the final result, if they so choose. Otherwise, keep your hatred and complaints private so that they do not influence the creative process, at all.

    How does that one saying go?

    "If you do not have anything nice to say, do not say anything at all."

    That is what damaged AOTC/ROTS and ruined the entire Prequel Trilogy as a whole. It definitely has had an effect on the Sequel Trilogy as well, probably more than we even realize.

    Star Wars is a work of art first, not just a product.


    "Ride the Tide"

    -SOAS
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 11, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 11, 2018 ---
    Also, I absolutely loved TLJ.. and I just wanted to let you know that your suggestion to make Snoke be revealed as Plaqueis is something I would be very happy with! So if it would make the haters happy as well, then it's an even better idea for JJ to go that route.. one way or the other.

    Overall, I just generally think it is a really good idea story wise and fits perfectly with everything that has happened before it. So yeah.. count me in!

    Great thread, by the way!

    "Ride the Tide"

    -SOAS
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  12. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2015
    Posts:
    1,289
    Likes Received:
    3,221
    Trophy Points:
    13,167
    Credits:
    7,253
    Ratings:
    +5,168 / 26 / -7
    How to "save" the Sequel Trilogy?
    Disregard hyperbolic ideas of it's damnation and move along!
    I guess it's easier when you find the premise that it needs to be "saved" dubious in the first place. :rolleyes:

    the false save.png
     
    • Funny Funny x 8
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  13. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Posts:
    728
    Likes Received:
    1,176
    Trophy Points:
    7,367
    Credits:
    2,663
    Ratings:
    +1,680 / 37 / -2
    I don't want to get into another debate about whether the trilogy has been good or not, but i think a very fair criticism of Lucas film going into this trilogy was lack of planing, Their was never a plan of where they want this trilogy to end up, going into episode 9 I want them to sit down and work out how to pull this trilogy into a what feels like a coherent story, that also flows on from the Original Trilogy and fits into the wider Star Wars story
     
    #13 Mosley909, Feb 11, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
    • Like Like x 4
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Old News Old News x 1
  14. jari13

    jari13 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2014
    Posts:
    78
    Likes Received:
    206
    Trophy Points:
    3,507
    Credits:
    1,024
    Ratings:
    +293 / 4 / -5
    No need for saving, it's doing fine as it is.
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Great Post Great Post x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,512
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    Trophy Points:
    16,467
    Credits:
    6,252
    Ratings:
    +9,445 / 36 / -9
    How so?
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  16. panki

    panki Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2017
    Posts:
    343
    Likes Received:
    471
    Trophy Points:
    2,792
    Credits:
    1,058
    Ratings:
    +762 / 12 / -3
    I think the points I mentioned explain why I see an inconsistency.
     
  17. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,512
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    Trophy Points:
    16,467
    Credits:
    6,252
    Ratings:
    +9,445 / 36 / -9
    What does this mean? “Battle dress”? Just looks like a sack with holes cut out to me.
    Yeah, she’s keeping track of how long it’s been since she was left there. It’s a pretty common visual aid a storyteller uses to convey someone’s been somewhere for a long while.
    She believes her family made a mistake by leaving her there and will come back some day. That’s pretty consistent with what we were shown.
    Her family had a ship. Junkers can’t have ships?
    The points you mention aren’t at all indicative of anything beyond what we were told. That’s why I was hoping you could provide more detail for your reasoning. I’m not seeing what you’re seeing. It all seems to line up pretty well.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Great Post Great Post x 4
    • Wise Wise x 1
  18. Cole

    Cole Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Posts:
    1,243
    Likes Received:
    4,100
    Trophy Points:
    13,807
    Credits:
    5,308
    Ratings:
    +5,516 / 125 / -33
    then...People also need to refrain from loving and complimenting. Right?

    As far as "saving" the trilogy. I guess Ep. 9 just needs to be extra good. I doubt that will happen. I hope I'm wrong!
     
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Cute Cute x 1
  19. FastestKnight

    FastestKnight Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2016
    Posts:
    217
    Likes Received:
    2,270
    Trophy Points:
    11,442
    Credits:
    2,843
    Ratings:
    +2,547 / 17 / -3
    I'm torn apart with The Last Jedi, and my problem is that a have little to no hype for IX, so the things I would want to see:

    -Knights. Of. Ren. (we've never seen multiple villains at the same time, and Kylo-Hux is just boring).
    -Luke Force Ghost as much as possible. Maybe completing Rey's training and haunting Ben, but we need to see the wise Luke.
    -The trio having screentime together. No more Finn-Rose, it's time for Rey, Poe and Finn.
    -I don't care about Snoke, but come on, at least show us a flashback of him corrupting young Ben.

    Speaking of which, this isn't just another movie, it's the end of the saga. I don't know what they're planning to do, but I want to see the prequels, the originals and the sequels come in full circle.

    Crazy idea, but now that we know force ghost have powers, show us Anakin and Luke fighting along Rey. Heck, is the perfect time to see Ewan and Hayden again.

    Also, Rey vs Kylo is boring. We've seen that. And Rey vs 8 Dark Side Users at the same time just gives more bait to the Mary Sue Army.

    Now imagine, Anakin, Luke and maybe Obi Wan, fighting the Knights while Rey is dueling Kylo. Now THAT'S A CLIMAX.

    You can also have Phasma (again, but this time done well) vs Finn and Poe vs Hux at the same time.

    Maybe the end could be like the Return of the King one, with Anakin, Luke, Yoda, Obi Wan (and maybe Harrison and Carrie) going somewhere and Rey building a new Jedi Academy.

    BONUS: Give me Lando!
     
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 3
  20. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,512
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    Trophy Points:
    16,467
    Credits:
    6,252
    Ratings:
    +9,445 / 36 / -9
    I reckon that would be a pretty quick fight. Dance off? Poetry slam? Rock, paper, scissors?
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...

Share This Page