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How to "save" the sequel trilogy

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by darth sputnik, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    Ok, I'll play.....

    I don't know that the ST needs to be "Saved" per se, HOWEVER, to me it has seemed a little hollow and somewhat anti-climactic.

    I always use the OT as my example, so I look back at the "Father Vader" reveal, the "Leia is your sister" reveal, and the "Vader redemption" twist that NOBODY in the late 70's-early 80's saw coming...those things emptied theaters of oxygen from the simultaneous gasps when they happened...the ST has had none of those.

    Now, I'll take the ST for what it is (because there's no other choice) and move on feeling a little empty, but if there's redemption to be had for those that are disillusioned, there needs to be a BIG twist or reveal, and of course MY first choice would to be to reveal Luke as Rey's father, along with something like Mara Jade as her mother...whom is still alive. However I've released the notion that anything like that will happen, but JJ had better pull a GIANT reveal or twist out of a hat in order to redeem this in the eyes of those that have thus far utterly hated the ST....because thus far it has lacked...."suspense".
     
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  2. KesselRunner

    KesselRunner Rebel Official

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    Here's my Snoke Theory. Something that could lend a little more drama and gravity to the story. Snoke is directly responsible for everything bad that happens in TFA, TLJ and what's going to happen in EP9.

    It goes back to one thing:

    Snoke manipulated Luke into believing Ben would fall to the dark side in the same way he manipulated Rey and Kylo in TLJ. While he may have been secretly manipulating Ben at the time as well, he knew that Ben's fall needed a catalyst: his uncle turning against him.

    Think about it, both Rey and Kylo truly believed what the "Force" was telling them about each other to the point that if Snoke's plan for Kylo had succeeded, Rey was literally willing to walk to her death. As powerful as the two of them were, they were simply Snoke's pawns until he blabbed to them about the truth of the matter.

    Back to Luke though. If Snoke put those murderous thoughts into Luke's head through the Force, then Snoke becomes a far more compelling villain. Snoke would then be responsible for the Solo/Skywalker clan falling apart, the new Jedi Order being destroyed, the subsequent rise of the First Order and the destruction of the New Republic. I see this as a calculated strategy to remove the biggest threats to his First Order: Han, Luke, Leia and the Jedi. Together and unified, they managed to bring down the Empire, so Soke needed to tear them apart.

    This makes Snoke the true villain of the Sequel Trilogy. It also makes the one who defeated him the true hero of the trilogy. An unrepentant patricidal darksider is the hero. How's that for a twist?

    I can see it now:

    Rey: "Ben, you defeated Snoke. He caused all of this. You removed the greatest evil in the galaxy since Emperor Palpatine!"
    Kylo: "I am the greatest evil in the galaxy!"
    Rey: -she smiles and shakes her head- "No you're not, you're a hero!"
     
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  3. Trev

    Trev Rebel Official

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    I loved both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, so I really don’t think the Sequel Trilogy needs to be “saved,” but I am hoping for a reveal that has the emotional impact that the Original Trilogy’s reveals had.

    While I really think Rey’s role as a nobody and apparent successor to the original trio will stay the same without her being revealed as one of their children, with JJ in charge of Episode IX, I think it’s entirely plausible to assume her parentage could still be up in the air. Revealing her as either Luke or Leia’s daughter would obviously be pretty shocking, given what we learned in The Last Jedi.

    I also think that Snoke’s power was not explored to its full potential in The Last Jedi. I really think he’s just as—if not more—powerful than Palpatine and they’ve done a poor job communicating that. The same can be said of Rey. I really think the reason she got minimal training from Luke is because she is naturally gifted in the Force, which is what Yoda hints at when he says there’s nothing in the ancient Jedi texts that she doesn’t already know.

    So, with that in mind, while I think the “Who is Snoke?” theories were absolutely ridiculous because there was no indication he was anyone other than himself, I do believe that having him return in some capacity in Episode IX could be a big shocker, especially if he kills a major character like Kylo Ren. (Perhaps he is even revealed to be responsible for Leia’s death.)

    I’ve always thought there was a little something extra going on with Leia and Rey and never really understood why they shared such a deep connection (other than my previous theory that they were mother and daughter, although again, that’s completely speculative). We know Leia is a weak point for Kylo Ren through The Last Jedi and its novel. He spares Leia’s life because he senses love and sadness rather than anger when they have their Force connection, and I am a firm believer that she was ultimately what would turn him back to the light. She was supposed to be at the forefront of this film, so maybe her relationship with Rey and Kylo Ren and how they relate to each other (not necessarily a familial relation) will be explored, because I think those two characters have a really interesting dynamic and I love how they represent light and dark.

    To be honest, I just need something shocking and unexpected, even if it doesn’t surpass the Original Trilogy (because that’s pretty hard to do). As long as JJ gives us the satisfying conclusion to this story that I think he will, I’ll be happy.
     
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  4. HarryShoulders

    HarryShoulders Rebel General

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    JJ you know what to do. R2 is always with a Skywalker. Crylo Ren will not do it bub.

    [​IMG]



    Just remember - I'm watching you....

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    I would heavily focus on the Knights of Ren and I'm actually quite convinced that they will be relevant to the plot in IX. If I remember correctly JJ once said he wanted a SW movie which would be a spinoff about the Knights of Ren. He said that before he had signed on to direct IX. The Knights of Ren could serve 2 purposes. They would act as the ones maniupulating everything from behind the curtains, including Snoke. They had Kylo act as a double agent to infiltrate the First Order and use their power and assets to help the Knights of Ren become the new rulers of the Galaxy. Secondly, they could serve as this cult of dark force illuminati whose origin story could be the center of Rian's new trilogy set hundreds of years in the past with Ren being the hero of this trilogy.

    http://www.slashfilm.com/knights-of-ren-movie/
     
    #85 BobRoss, Mar 3, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2018
  6. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    I can just say what my gut says, because I am scared to the bones by Rey random movement.

    Reylo (other word for Rey Random) would be death of Star Wars for me. Any other scenario but this.

    That is my personal opinion, I fear SW will be lost for me in this case.
     
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  7. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Someone asked RJ about Luke's students that left with Ben and he said he couldn't comment on it, but it make it sound like that it's something that will come up in the next film.

    It would kind of make sense that those students followed Ben and that's what became the Knights of Ren. It's even possible that Rey's forceback in TFA of the Knights in the rain could be from episode XI. There might not be a huge plan, but Lucasfilm has planned some "art elements" so JJ may have put that in the forceback as a nugget for the final film.
     
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  8. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    I'm not sure if even having Mara Jade in here would help at this point. Personally I'd rather her not be a part of this mess.

    Just like at one point I said having Thrawn show up could draw me back, but again there I have reservations due to how I disliked TLJ and was somewhat underwhelmed by TFA. So far the whole ST has been a disappointment for me, and having Thrawn for one movie would be kind of a waste (he deserves a trilogy or nothing at all imo). Having those legendary characters attached to the ST would be disappointing due to my dislike of the ST.

    As for that big moment, Snoke's death could have been that had the rest of the movie not been so bad (imo). I really wish there hadn't been so many issues that I could have enjoyed that moment, but we got what we got. It wouldn't have been as big as "I am your father.", but lets face it, that's going to be almost impossible to top within the SW universe.

    It's too bad, RJ had some good ideas, a part of the issue is that he had too many to give them all justice within a 2 hour or so movie. He seemed to write TLJ for a season series of ten 50 minute episodes instead of 2 and a half hours.
     
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  9. CnlSandersdeKFC

    CnlSandersdeKFC Rebel Official

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    I'll say it now. A non-twist reveal of Luke being Rey's father will have me walking out of the theater. I've already seen that movie. It's called The Empire Strikes Back.
     
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  10. The Nerf Herder!

    The Nerf Herder! Rebel General

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    The answer to this thread is simple... THE ST DOESN’T NEED SAVING. I believe that we as fans should just stop building up so many false expectations though, As I was a victim of this as well when I first saw TLJ. Besides, JJ has stated whatever issues the fans had with TLJ would not at all effect the story for 9. Look it up. :cool:
     
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  11. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    Actually, it would be quite different. Luke wasn't evil, and he'd now be a ghost. Two elements that are quite different than Vader/Luke.

    I don't care either way, but it would probably be a bit of a tear jerker. Before the PT I often wondered about the events of Luke and Leia's conception. If they'd want to keep the saga going with the same characters, that would be a way to keep interest as their past would now become relevant.

    As for you walking out, I guess you're saying you'd finally know how all those disenchanted fans felt when Luke tossed the lightsaber lol.
     
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  12. ScumAndVillainy

    ScumAndVillainy Rebelscum

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    Particularly when it comes to the belief that the makers of this stuff know what they're doing! You should lower your expectations. Like a millimeter off the floor. Only then will they have a chance of exceeding them.
     
  13. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Wow, foreshadowing Episode 11? Now THAT’S planning ahead! :D
     
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  14. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Wait until she finds out BB8 is her dad's consciousness in a droid
     
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  15. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Or when it's revealed ALL of her visions were of the future . . . after she time travels to the past.
     
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  16. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    For the most part, I agree with @Trevor. While I like the ST and disagree with a lot of the criticisms of it, it does feel like it's just not that well fleshed out. The great thing about the original trilogy is that the films were spaced out. I've talked about this before, but the ability to jump right back into the action with characters who mostly feel the same, but ones who still have at least strengthened but not changed their relationships with each other is invaluable.

    For instance, we jump right back into the action on Hoth, and really all the characters feel familiar. Luke is off trying to be a hero, Leia is working as a leader in the Alliance, Chewie is working on the Falcon, and Han is trying to leave the Alliance just like at the end of A New Hope. We even see Obi Wan as a ghost, appearing much as he did in the first film (a little more glowy though, of course). It's almost as if we haven't missed anything, yet the passage of time has still happened, as seen by quotes like this.

    Han
    "Well, the bounty hunter we ran
    into on Ord Mantell changed my
    mind."


    Who was the bounty hunter? What happened? It doesn't matter to our plot, but it shows that the Rebels have had some adventures since we last saw them.


    Later in that scene, Leia references how she feels about Han's involvment in the Alliance, clearly demonstrating an evolution in their relationship (A New Hope's Leia would have scoffed at a smuggler being a leader in her army):

    Leia
    "Yes. You're a great help to us.
    You're a natural leader..."

    With this clear passage of time, we're able to throw in all sorts of tie in stories that can optionally flesh out characters and make them even more familiar and lovable to audiences, both in canon and Legends.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    With the sequel trilogy... we could maybe fit a short story with mostly stream of consciousness monologue in between TFA and TLJ. Not a lot more than that could fit in the brief moments between these films, so it really does still feel like Rey hardly knows anyone yet, especially when both characters she probably bonded with the most are dead, outside of Finn (who still barely has known her for more than a day or two).


    So a long time gap would greatly benefit this series, though we probably should've seen at least a few months go by either before or during TLJ.


    Also, I think the ST could benefit from immediately winning fans back over the the film. The Niima Outpost raid at the beginning of TFA was a tense, gritty return to stormtroopers, and I think it worked out great. I think the best way to open EpIX would be for the Knights of Ren to make a brutal and dark entrance, slaughtering their way through some rebel-aligned base. Almost like opening the film with a similar sequence to Vader's hallway scene, allowing the film to slowly build up hope from a horrifying but badass beginning.
     
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  17. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    To save Ahsoka
     
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  18. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    So she can nab Luke’s saber in ESB and give it to Maz. "The circle is now complete."
     
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  19. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Well we just finished writing the last episode of the next animated series.
     
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  20. TheTruTru

    TheTruTru Rebelscum

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    I think something along the lines of having Snoke be some kind of dark force spirit that possesses physical bodies could help the ST. In IX it could be explained that Luke had to sacrifice himself to be able to battle Snoke in the force spirit world. Then we could get an epic final battle between Snoke's spirit & force ghost Luke (and maybe Yoda, Anakin, & Obi Wan). Hell, you could even make Snoke Plagueis with this scenario.

    This might remedy the people who had a problem with Luke's death in TLJ, since it would give his death a little more purpose. It would expand upon the new force ghost powers introduced in TLJ. It would explain Snoke being more powerful that any other force user (per Serkis). And, if you insinuated that Snoke's spirit had once upon a time possessed Plagueis, it would connect the ST to the PT.

    I know it seems kind of "out there" but I think this would be an interesting twist that could help address some of the issues people have had with the ST (namely TLJ).
     
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