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"I am right!" conundrum.

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Sparafucile, Oct 21, 2018.

  1. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    There has been a lot of discussion on lovers and haters since the release of TLJ. Many early conversations lacked in civility, many shots below the belt on both sides. The arguing was waged, waxing and waning but slowly over the course of time has lessened in intensity and consistently become more and more civil. I think thanks must go to the mods in curtailing and refereeing the discussions, and those of us who recognized our own culpability and reined in our antagonism.

    I think there's a new "old" issue, and it unites lovers and haters alike. It's the claim that one's opinion is "right" above all others. It's been an issue since the release of TLJ, but has been largely overlooked due to ongoing spat between lovers and haters. In the heat of claiming the other side is wrong, we've missed as a fandom that maybe those very claims are the issue. I think this is important because we're headed into the final installment of the ST and I see this rhetoric being pushed to the fore. Because as much as civility has largely returned to the discussion pro and con of TLJ, there is still much debate as to who's "right" and predictions and success or failure of IX, state of SW as a whole and as a brand ect.

    The problem with this is that I can predict the fallout after EPIX. I'm no Nostradamus, but I don't think we have to be. IX will either succeed, fail or hit in the expected financial range. The fallout of each of those scenarios, especially the extremes could turn things even uglier than the fallout after TLJ.

    Let me walk you through the scenarios.

    IX fails, as in, makes less than 150 mil opening weekend (the numbers themselves could be debated ad nauseum). Still a profitable movie, fans will enter the discussion armed with stats. Excuses will be made, while some fans will revel in its failure as it proves what they've been saying all along. Things get ugly and it will seem to many the fight is between lovers and haters, but in actuality, it will be between egos. Those who claim they are right.

    IX succeeds, as in, it makes more that 200 mil opening weekend. Pretty much the same ensues, only in reverse. The difference is, if IX is spectacular in which it can reclaim some haters by addressing issues in TLJ and the ST as a whole, it will be positive, but that has little to do with profitability.

    IX makes between 150 and 200mil. This could almost be the worst scenario because both sides continue their arguments. The only difference is that no one could enter this discussion super smug about being "right", though I have little doubt some on both sides would claim it nonetheless.

    So to me the issue is less about haters and lovers and more about egos. Every new thread that espouses how everything is fine or everything is horribly wrong with the franchise adds stakes to the egos. Egos are fragile things, for some more than others, and having ones opinion dismissed adds fuel to their believing and wanting to be right. Even to the detriment of the franchise.

    I can predict potential fallouts, but I can't figure out a solution. However, I see a time of conflict within the fandom reaching a boiling point, and it won't be due to the movies themselves, but driven by stakes made in relation to people's egos.

    It will be more difficult for moderators to curb smugness at the success of IX, because it would seem to discourage love for the franchise. It would be easier to discourage smugness through it's failure as it would seem people who hate the franchise. I think we need to check those ideas, as we've established several times that we all love SW and all want good SW. The only issue is what we consider good SW differs.

    The point of this thread for me is not to argue on either side, but to try and devise solutions. First, maybe even discuss if my observation is even accurate. Do you think egos are at least as big an issue as love or hate for TLJ? If the answer is yes, then how could this issue be confronted?

    I also think this thread could be useful to moderators, both in how to handle these future situations, but also in how we regulate our own conduct. I had my ego in the ring until I pulled it out. If I could I think we all could, and it would benefit behavior throughout the fandom. I have my belief and opinions, but I also realize I can't prove them conclusively. So, rather than ramp up rhetoric and increase animosity, I choose to walk away from a discussion that has no other purpose than to have both sides dig in their heels and have more at stake with the outcome of IX. We don't need more reason to be smug or to add toxicity, we need less. Haters and lovers equally do a disservice to the franchise when their egos are in the ring.
     
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  2. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Sensitive

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    I feel like you overestimate the damage to the fandom that TLJ caused. All of this hating, arguments and personal attacks were just as prominent during the Prequel days. It's just that the social media is more developed and thus more ways to express all that. But that's it. The fandom was fine after the Prequels and it will be just as fine after the Sequels.
     
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  3. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    Live and let live :D
     
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  4. Mortis

    Mortis Rebel Official

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    Star Wars fan have been bickering about the newest Star Wars released content since the prequels. I specifically remember having many an argument with people about how KOTOR II was such a let down from KOTOR. It was a pretty good split of love and hate. The arguments raged and shills labels were thrown. Now these internal fan communities gripes have taken a grander stage now that these people can harass the artist responsible online. There is nothing new under the sun.
     
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  5. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Star Wars fans don't even like Star Wars. Unless you mean the specific parts of Star Wars they like. Not the crap they don't like.
     
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  6. KesselRunner

    KesselRunner Rebel Official

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    Being "right" is subjective. It depends heavily on how an individual interprets the available data. I can say that "I'm right.", but if I step outside myself and look at the situation objectively, I can see that me being right doesn't necessarily make someone else wrong. That other person is looking at the same data I am and they're interpreting it differently, and to them, it's right.

    It is difficult for me to be objective about Star Wars, but it's healthy to look past yourself from time to time and see how someone else could come to a different conclusion.

    I think a solution will present itself when people start making an effort to understand each other instead of just building up their own arguments. But that's the hard part, you have to dismantle your own argument before you can even see the other person. ;)
     
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