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I staunchly defended Rey after TFA, but have

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by kuatorises, May 30, 2018.

  1. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I'll take that to mean that you don't have an answer.

    Funny, people pretend to know so much about the Force until they're actually asked to describe it.
     
  2. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    no more foul language from you, and no more name calling.
    there's no need for that kind of behavior here; we're just talking about a movie and should be having fun.
     
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  3. kuatorises

    kuatorises Rebelscum

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    What language? The site either automatically or manually changes it to "blast".
     
  4. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    yes it does, but the vulgar intent behind it will not be tolerated here.
    you want to curse at people and call them names, there are other places you can do that.
     
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  5. kuatorises

    kuatorises Rebelscum

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    This website has a button that allows you to call people trolls and you want to talk to be about name-calling? If heated conversation isn't allowed on the site, then a troll button shouldn't exist. It's counterproductive to your goals.
     
    #65 kuatorises, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
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  6. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Whether the FO had Rey or not, Han wasn’t going to just up and leave with SK targeting Leia’s little Rebellion 2.0. It was his decision to lower the shields and blow the oscillator. It was his decision to stay and rig the explosives. It was his decision to confront his son. Finn was there to point to the right spot, sure, but I just don’t see Rey’s status having any sizeable impact on Han’s fate. I don’t see the A-B correlation. It’s something he would have done anyway.

    Rey’s action though is absolutely a character flaw, her only flaw really. Her struggle in that story was between seeking out her own destiny and literally sticking her head in the sand in some imaginary obligation to people that abandoned her. Rejecting the saber and running off was the exemplification of that struggle. TFA ends with her beginning to embrace this greater purpose she might have. TLJ is the further continuation of that theme, but set on a larger scale.
    The message I got was that Kylo wanted that map no matter the cost. If it meant escalating that skirmish into an all-out battle the FO very likely would have won, I don’t see why he wouldn’t have. Getting to Skywalker was all he was presented to value. Everybody there could die so long as he got that droid. That’s just my impression though.
    True. I get the blow back though. Rey is an unprecedented figure with respect to her innate Force use. I guess more time could have been dedicated to justifying her ability, but that would be more time taken away from an already ill-defined narrative. The story needs her to be in a particular place with the Force and so she is. Need a reason? Well, she’s the light’s answer to Kylo’s dark. She’s the manifestation of the Force’s natural drive toward equilibrium, to balance itself. Still not good enough? Well, hell, maybe JJ will come up with something better :D
     
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  7. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Ashoka: "Just when you think you understand the Force, you find out how little you actually know."
     
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  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    The ultimate irony being this is the one who threw a temper tantrum when I made a joke and he was "only here for serious conversations"
     
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  9. TK-1204

    TK-1204 Imperial Special Forces
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    Let's stick to discussing the topic of the thread, not each other.
     
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  10. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    One thing I have noticed in the criticism of Rey in this thread and a couple of other places is. In TLJ when they show up on Crait the Falcon takes several tie fighters right away before they are noticed. Rey was working one of the canons and they assumed that she was the one taking them all out. Thing is the Falcon also has other canons that would have been controlled by Chewie from the cockpit.
     
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  11. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    And maybe a Porg or two :D
     
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  12. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    I could see porgs just flopping around in the cockpit setting off a few accidental blasts....
     
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  13. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    That would be Porgtastic
     
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  14. Dawn

    Dawn Rebel General

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    Didn't Snoke tell Kylo that as he grew stronger with the dark side, the light grew stronger too? "Darkness rises, and light too meet it". There's something unusual going on there, and Snoke knew it.
    This is the canon explanation we have, I think it was confirmed officially. Not that it helps much, it does make sense but it's still an unearned advantage for Rey. She shouldn't have the same skills as someone who developed his for...what, 15 years? I for one am fine with it, it's just the force seeking balance, but I see why it would annoy many people.
    I used to see Rey as kind of a Mary Sue too, but not because of her force skills. It was because she seemed to be unrealistically flawless despite her past experiences. I liked her regardless, I thought she was an awesome characters as she was, but still, she lacked realism. But after I saw TLJ a couple of times, I changed my mind. I still think she's great, but I discovered very obvious and annoying flaws, and they make her so much better, like a more "real" 19 year old girl. All thanks to her interactions with Kylo. Think of this...
    She had a vision of the two of them on the light side and reached the conclusion that it must happen IMMEDIATELY. Not because it would have been an advantage in the war (oh please), but because it meant that she wouldn't have to be alone anymore. If she really cared about Kylo's role in the war, she would have alerted Luke the moment she saw him on the island. Being there might have helped Kylo find the island, and Luke, and HER, and eventually the Resistance. But she didn't say anything because Luke might have been able to stop him from "returning". She wanted him there, and because she put herself first, she thought...."Eh, we'll see where this is going, who cares about the war and what this lunatic could do if he finds us?" But I digress.
    Back to the vision...So she had this vision and thought "This MUST come true", and decided to make it happen right away. Which, if she stopped to think, she would have realized it was an insane idea. But she didn't. Instead, she thought that she could just go to the Supremacy and pick up Kylo like a puppy. Or fight dog, however you want to put it. A better analogy would be...she tried to pick up a fight dog like a puppy. Basically who he was RIGHT THEN didn't matter to her, what mattered was who he could be. Her vision/fantasy. Which is selfish to say the least, especially coming from someone who was supposed to be Miss Perfect (and I love that). And when he didn't do what she wanted, she just ran away FEELING BETRAYED. As if he made any commitment, as if he promised anything, as if he showed any signs of wanting to turn to the light. Talking to him about it might have helped, but she didn't think of that, she payed more attention to her fantasy than to him. And that is such an immature mindset. Her interest/support was conditioned by him turning into someone else right away. There's a difference between seeing potential in someone and expecting them to change overnight. In first case, you care about them and want to see them doing better for themself. In the second, you care about what the "better" version can do for you, and have no patience for the person that you're actually dealing with. She said "I'll help you, I swear it", but what she really meant was "I'll help you, I swear it, if you do what I want". So superficial, I love it. Well, I love that she's flawed, not the situation itself lol That was an awful attitude, but now Rey proved that she can be pretty awful. Like a real person. So yeah, she's no Mary Sue, she's a selfish (although kind) 19 year old girl who has a lot of growing up to do.
     
    #74 Dawn, Jun 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  15. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    I think she tried to kill two birds with one stone. Both turn the tide of the war by bringing Kylo to the light side (as she heard how Luke did to Vader), and not be alone as a force user.

    There's also a cockiness to her, since she defeated Kylo once, then she doesn't have to be as scared of him or rather putting herself in the situation where she goes to him..

    The thing is though she thought Kylo would reciprocate her give and take.

    She went to him and helped him set the stage to kill Snoke and the guards. (Basically helping him).

    She expected something in return for her troubles (stopping the killing of the Resistance. Basically, him putting himself out there and helping her.)

    But he didn't. She realizes Kylo is all take and no give. And then he lays into her, that she is insignificant in this "story" and that her only value is through him.

    So yeah. She's not a Mary Sue because she made the fatal mistake of trusting and thinking Kylo would be "honorable" in her terms. SHE WAS WRONG.

    And you're right. A part of her wanted that selfishly, because it meant she wouldn't be alone as a young force user.
     
    #75 LarsSkywalker, Jun 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  16. ZDTemplar

    ZDTemplar Rebel Trooper

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    So even though there are a dozen other dark users, (the knights of Ren), and even though literally anybody around the world is using the force at whims (broom boy), the force intentionally and consciously inputs force into Rey and Ren? So is the force an entity at this point, with decision making?

    Beyond that, this theory makes Snoke the only one that seems to know what's going on, showing knowledge above what anybody else could know. How and why did he know? What else did he know? I sure would have loved for him to not be killed off unceremoniously without a second thought... He seemed like an important character...
     
  17. Dawn

    Dawn Rebel General

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    We don't know if the Knights of Ren are force users (they might not be) but I see your point. It IS very odd, and it does make the force seem somewhat sentient, which is even more odd. But maybe there has been something like a shift in the force. An evolution of some sorts, something that occurred naturally as a consequence of Anakin's failure. He was an incarnation of the force, but he spent most of his life as a darksider. And the force seeks (naturally, not consciously) balance, that much we know. So maybe the force "chose" 2 people this time in order to achieve balance. Not as a sentient entity, but by taking the path of least resistance, like everything else in existence. Assuming this applies in a galaxy far far away.

    Me too, it wouldn't have killed them to give us some information on Snoke.
     
  18. Pobody's Nerfect

    Pobody's Nerfect Jedi General

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    If I may, I see a lot of you are looking at this as a Mary Sue issue.

    What if it isn't?

    There's been an Awakening. The Force is on the move.

    Did Rey lift all those rocks with the Force, or did the Force do it through her?

    Because if Rey's command of the Force is so great that she's a Mary Sue, then what exactly was the Awakening?

    I feel the Force is steering Rey at least as much as Rey is steering the Force. The Force is trying to do something. I don't know what it is, or where it will go, or why Rey got picked to be the one, but I've never thought of Rey as a Mary Sue. I see her more as Spider Man, suddenly in possession of powers she didn't ask for, doesn't understand, and doesn't know what to do with.
     
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  19. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    giphy (4).gif
     
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  20. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    So Rey is the first forceuser who truly believes? Because clearly everyone else had their limitations so apparently Rey is the first to truly understand this concept which begs the question "why is she the only one?". It also means that we can expect to see more and more ridiculous forcepowers because you know, "size matters not". So get ready for Rey to pull a Star Destroyer out the sky 'cause you know. There are no rules anymore. Or maybe, just maybe Yoda didn't intend his statement to be taken literally. Like you would motivate a student by telling them that they can achieve anything they want if they try hard enough.
     
    #80 BobRoss, Jun 18, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2018
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