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If JJ had wanted Luke alive what would it have taken

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by KeithF1138, May 26, 2018.

  1. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    Was thinking about this. JJ was hired to direct EP9 in early September 2017. Since he was a producer on Ep8 he knew Luke's fate. Rian Johnson announced that EP8 was in the can a week or 2 later.

    Many believe that the directors have had complete creative control to do whatever they wanted and no outline was ever put together for the ST. FYI I dont buy that and I think the following was a perfect example.

    JJ could have said I need Luke alive and TLJ would barely have need of changing. After all what would need to have been changed?

    Instead of Luke fading away on the rock as he is on the rock. They end that with him just looking at the suns. Then you need to change the conversation between Leia and Rey. A little more difficult, but with special effects and editing that could have been done.

    Am I missing anything else?

    They had the time to do it and JJ didnt ask them to do it. He didnt need Luke for EP9.
     
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  2. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Could of, would of, should.......
     
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  3. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    the only time the producers have control is if the director is really messing up. In regards to LFL, it is KK who has the last say so it is even above JJ's head whatever he says. From my understanding, Rian wrote TLJ while TFA was being written/filmed, which why he had such a huge freedom. They did not have time to change much. JJ most likely got only credit for "producer" like how a lot of tv actors get on their tv shows after a few seasons of success. I do not agree with a single thing of Rian's decisions but there are many ways to edit, retcon, change things given the 2 and a half years that JJ has up until the movie's release.
     
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  4. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Wasn't there a rumor of Colin T. wanting Rian to change Luke's fate. Furthermore Colin said His EPIX would have focused on Luke and Leia. But Rian didn't want Luke to survive, because he thought Luke's story is told (at least his hero's journey).

    In the end JJ doesn't need Luke for the story. And this is a good thing. "It's not Luke's story anymore." - Mark Hamill
     
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  5. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    Dont get me wrong I have no problem with Rian Johnsons decision. To me TLJ turned out great. I was not the least bit upset about Luke moving on. He is ready to be a force ghost. My point was that if JJ wanted Luke for EP9 to be in human form they had enough time to do it. Unless I am missing something in TLJ that would have made it difficult to do in 3 months and I dont see it.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 27, 2018, Original Post Date: May 27, 2018 ---
    Are you saying KK gave them complete freedom, but would not let JJ keep Luke alive if he wanted him alive?
     
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  6. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Ok now. One director wants a person alive. Another wants him/her dead. Who makes the ultimate choice?

    KK? RJ? CT (Before his termination)? JJ? The story group? A vote?
     
  7. Josh

    Josh Rebel Official

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    JJ was a producer yes but this is nowhere the situation of the OT where Lucas was also credited as Producer in ESB and Jedi.
    The guy could come on set each day and say you out if you dont do it the way I want.

    The person that could do that now is KK and only her. (not counting the execs at disney obviously.)

    I think JJ never expected to come back so he really didnt care at all and let Rian and co did their thing.
    When he came onboard to direct and write it was too late since TLJ was finished.
     
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  8. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    I think it much like the floating rocks at the end of TFA... if JJ could come up with a good enough argument and reasoning to keep Luke alive, he'd get support from KK. Otherwise KK will allow RJ to do it his way.
     
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  9. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    They could have been no way of JJ winning that argument mainly because of two points:
    1) it's about passing the torch (so Luke isn't needed anymore)
    2) death is kinda meaningless in SW (Luke can easily re-appear as a force ghost)
     
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  10. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    I wouldn't use the word "meaningless" but when it comes to a Force user? Yes.
     
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  11. Imbrie

    Imbrie Rebel General

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    I think it would be KK who has the veto based upon the director/writer's creative vision. The story have no say other than to provide a steer through the canon.
     
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  12. p03

    p03 Human/Cyborg Relations

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    Lol so very true :)
     
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  13. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

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    Luke turning into some Jedi warrior goes against his nature. He wasn’t leaving his seclusion so death is the only way to let Luke “live” from a certain point of view. Now he can show up to torment Ben and help Rey wherever they are.
     
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  14. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I think JJ made it very clear that he was interested in reintroducing new characters in the SW's universe and that the problem he was having while writing TFA was making the Old Trilogy characters take a back seat in the story. He said that, if Luke had been around in TFA, it would have been hard not to concentrate the story on him... But JJ and KK, I imagine, didn't want that. They wanted a fresh story, inspired by the old world, but with new characters, new set ups, new motives.

    I'd say that JJ did not want Luke alive after episode VIII. As he put it, the whole thing was a "hand-over" from one generation to the next.
     
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  15. Imbrie

    Imbrie Rebel General

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    And that's completely logical and correct and how it should be. Unfortunately, for me, the new characters are not compelling enough for me to get behind, root for, or be even vaguely interested in except for good old Kylo. It's solely for his next steps that I'll be watching for XI as well as some potential interaction between him and Force ghost Luke.

    Conceptually, I'm not at all disapponted that Luke died in TLJ - I think it really did need to happen.
     
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  16. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    Plot twist (idea)t: Luke was already dead during TFA and TLJ. When Rey first met and handed Luke the lightsabre, Rey was unknowingly seeing a Force Ghost of Luke. At the end of TLJ, Force Ghost Luke's energy has all been used up after his long distance Force Projection battle with Ben Solo, so Luke needs to recharge himself, which while he does, makes him go invisible temporarily.
     
    #16 SKB, May 29, 2018
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  17. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    whoever decided it, they face now the consequences. If they think they don't need Luke because his story is told and the newbies rule....good luck folks....see ya together with many more former fans on Netflix. ;)
     
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  18. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    OK no one really even attempted to answer my question. So basically I assume there was nothing to get in the way of JJ asking and Lucasfilm/RJ making the last minute change and keeping Luke alive.

    JJ didnt because the story for Ep9 works better with Luke not in physical form. Better Rey the protagonist and Luke if around is as a supporting character in the form of a Force ghost.
     
  19. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    For what I understood, I thought I was agreeing with you in my post.

    But about the question: “If JJ had needed Luke to live in ep9, would RJ have changed things in his stories?” My answer would be no. First of all JJ would have never dared to ask something so radical to a director who allegedly had almost complete creative control of the story... I don't think it would have been professional. Remember that JJ as co-producer must have read RJ script proposal, liked it and agreed to Luke's death quite early on in the process. JJ was already committed to that story and was satisfied with it. I’m sure that if there had been anything in the script not to the taste of LF, RJ would not have gone so far in the process.

    Contriving a “Luke not dying” in ep8 to have him around in ep9 would not have been the best solution for the Leia vacuum. It would have made ep8 less poignant and relevant and that would have been unfair to RJ. My opinion.
     
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