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SPECULATION If Luke Is Alive Does Star Wars "Jump the Shark"?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Rayjefury, Mar 22, 2018.

  1. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I have made no secret about my disdain of the re-imagining of Luke Skywalker and his seemingly unearned demise. Not long another posted postulated on what they believed might be a twist to make the most ardent TLJ hater come back to the fold full power... seeing Luke alive.

    And I have to admit, if there was a trailer for EPIX and the last image we see is Luke NOT being a Force Ghost... they would have my full and undivided attention. I mean, if Darth Maul can be bisected and fall down a multi-storied shaft and STILL live... couldn't Luke still be alive?

    But then I thought about it, part of why Darth Maul's resurrection isn't as horrendous as it sounds on paper is that he only reappears in the cartoons, never again on the Big Screen, and he wasn't Luke either. He had the potential to be iconic, but Luke WAS iconic. Could he really come back to life and it be believable? Isn't the immediate question, "why hasn't anyone else come back" as soon as we see Luke?

    And I'm not saying they couldn't manufacture some Force Related reason why (I mean if you have been following it all, becoming One with the Force seems to be getting progressively more interactive. When Qui Gon first did it, all he could do was speak, he couldn't project an image. Later we see Jedi projecting images. Now we see Yoda interacting physically with the world with the lightning strike on the Force Tree. Is the next logical step, being able to come back and forth with Oneness from the Force?)

    I don't know... but as a fan, as someone who didn't want to see Luke die this early and in this manner, and even giving due consideration to how people who should have died didn't and how oneness with the Force seems to be evolving...

    ...wouldn't this be a bridge too far? Wouldn't it ultimately feel like Star Wars had (as the misapplied phrase goes) "Jumped the Shark?"
     
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  2. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    I guess we'd have to see how it happens to decide.
     
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  3. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Well,I suppose anything is possible. However, all the Jedi that we've seen faded away as they died and they returned in the next one. Same thing happened with Luke.
     
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  4. Buckeye94

    Buckeye94 Rebel General

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    I don't think it would necessarily jump the shark. It would really depend on the story they tell and the explanation they come up with for him being alive. I'd love to see Luke back alive and I think he was killed off prematurely. And of course "No one's ever really gone" so anything is possible.
     
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  5. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    It would lose some fans I think for sure.

    As in everything else, it depends if you can suspend your disbelief that far.

    My worry would be the inevitable questions that come along with Luke coming back (a la Gandalf the White). "Hey Luke, how was death? Did you get to talk to your father? How's Han?"

    I think if he comes back he'd almost have to die in EPIX before those questions could be asked. That being said, if any Jedi could come back it would be Luke due to the manner of his "death". Yoda obviously died of old age, most of the rest it's in some violent manner. Luke died from having his projection struck by a lightsaber and then joining with the Force. Of all Jedi deaths, this one would be the simplest to reverse. I just hope the pacing once he comes back is too fast for him to be able to have a sit down and let anyone ask him any awkward questions (and then get the directors opinion on what life after death is).

    Beyond that, as many have stated before, it depends how they do it. Hard to call until you see it, and I think it would be a personal thing for the viewer whether or not it works.
     
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  6. srg

    srg Force Attuned

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    I feel bad for those who didn't like Luke in TLJ and want him alive in IX, but that is not going to happen. It just can't. No matter what kind stretching in terms of story and lore you do, that would still be an outrageous retcon. Morever, they can't make his role too crucial at this point. Luke has been moved aside and it's time for the new characters to take the spotlight. However, I can't imagine him not appearing as a Force ghost. It's a must and I'm all for a substantial role of Force ghost Luke.
     
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  7. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    There is the World between worlds place that they could use. They practically brought Ahoska back from the dead.
     
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  8. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    I'm not sure if this could bring me back to be honest. I also doubt they go this route.
     
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  9. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    So conceptually you think it's possible that they could pull it off? I actually want Luke back, and I just don't think there's any way that they could do it, even if well explained, that will ultimately feel organic and natural and I think they'd lose me (even though it's my preferred outcome LOL - I know I know, there's just no satisfying Rayjefury, he even hates what he likes LOL)

    True, but they returned as Force Ghosts right? Not flesh and blood again. I'm asking if Luke came back and was fully corporeal again.

    Fully agree there's potential existing material to make it work (logically); but would it work emotionally? To me this could potentially be like Luke's Marry Poppins moment. Logically Leia should have been able to use the Force, but did it work emotionally on screen? I'd argue, no. It felt forced (no pun intended) and I'm wondering if resurrecting Luke wouldn't also feel forced.

    But the fans will still ask those questions, and failing to address them (as we've seen with TLJ) can backfire intensely.

    Luke's character has 40 years of real world legacy, it would not surprise or discourage me at all that people who have been invested in his character for that long would still want him alive (especially given his role in the last movie). I don't think you have to suspend your disbelief terribly much in a world of space wizards and laser swords, that someone who appeared to die is actually alive. My question is moreso would it work on an emotional level; do we believe this is natural or would it be received as bad fan service? In the end this is a hypothetical exercise because I do agree with you, that there's no way this actually happens. I wouldn't even pretend like we were bringing Luke back if I was among TPTB. If we were ok with killing him off in 8, he stays dead and you work from there, you do not back pedal, not after all of this.
     
  10. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Does it really matter if he is a force ghost or not? It all depends on what they have him do. Remember: force ghosts can influence the world. Yoda brought down literal lighting for god sakes. Who knows what Luke could do.
     
  11. srg

    srg Force Attuned

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    It doesn't work at any level for me. Luke coming back would downplay everything that happened at the end of TLJ. There has to be cost to his action. I would feel cheated if he came back to life, because I'm emotionally convinced Luke is gone, that's what the film tells us both literally and on the emotional level. It would definitely feel unnatural if he was alive in IX. If your question is whether or not it is possibile within the universe, then... I guess they can always come up with something far-fetched, but I think there's no way anybody would honestly buy this as anything other than a radical retcon and fan service.
     
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  12. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    I'm not 100% opposed to the idea, but it would likely distract from the story of Kylo and Rey and render Luke's sacrifice in The Last Jedi. It seems like JJ's story was pretty much finished before TLJ came out so I don't expect there to be any kind of change based on reactions to the film.

    The biggest loose end in this entire saga is force ghosts. It would be nice if there was some explanation about the entire thing. If there's a time jump in IX are they gonna just say that Luke has been in contact with Rey during that time? Or will he reach out to her after 3-4 years. Either way is had it's issues. One is Rey is on her own and the other is Luke has a powerful moment with Rey we never see on screen.

    In the end this trilogy isn't about Luke. Bringing him back in a major way doesn't really make sense because he's a supporting character.
     
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  13. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    I think it would be easy from a narrative standpoint to bring him back to life. There are so many directions they could go with it. I think the fan reaction - both hardcore and casual - would be so overwhelmingly positive that hardly anyone would complain about whatever cheesy plot device they used to bring him back.

    Quite honestly, I think with Carrie Fisher passing, this is easily the most logical progression financially as well. Having E9 with none of the Big-3 in it is probably not something the Disney Board relishes (and by "in it" I mean something more than a Force Ghost cameo)

    I also can't help but feel that JJ would be licking his chops at the opportunity to do this as well.
     
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  14. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    Someone (returning from death) is unprecedented (even in Star Wars), a Force Ghost is well worn territory. People might be geeked to see Luke alive, seeing him as a Force Ghost wouldn't represent anything new, so in those regards it makes a difference.

    Yeah I think it definitely would be considered a fan service, but the franchise is not above doing fan services. I just worry about whether that fan service would come off really bad. I'd love for Luke to be back, but I am skeptical if it could be done well.

    I think Luke might take screen time away from Rey, I don't know that there is a Kylo and Rey story anymore. He had his feature in TLJ and I would not expect him to be the focal point of the story anymore. Assuming Luke comes back as a FG (which I suspect is the most likely case), it will be interesting to see how they use Luke's cameos since he didn't really train Rey.

    You bring up a good point, it might be difficult to make the case that having OT characters around stymies the new characters in EPIX when the plan was always to feature Leia in some way.
     
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  15. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    No way! It's the biggest story still in play. They faced off in The Force Awakens. They teamed up in The Last Jedi. There's going to be a final confrontation between the two central characters. It would be bad story telling any other way.
     
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  16. Messi

    Messi Force Attuned

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    Luke will returns...as a force ghost only.
    Returning alive in IX makes no sense to me, it will ruins his sacrifice in TLJ.
    Luke's force ghost will appears to Rey in some point I believe.
     
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  17. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I thought you were referring to Reylo. I agree that they will oppose one another, but I don't really regard that as "their" story I regard that as "Rey's" story. The confrontation will be more about her continued development, not Kylo's (IMO)
     
  18. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Maybe in live action, but in terms of canon they brought back Maul from the dead and they might as well have brought back Ahoska as well.
     
  19. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    *Cliegg Lars voice*

    Luke is dead, son. Just accept it.
     
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  20. Sparafucile

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    SW is more fantasy than sci-fi, and resurrection in fantasy is pretty common, I think it would be possible. As I said, it would definitely lose some fans, but I think it would bring some back too. In the end it would probably be close to a wash. It's also not unprecedented in sci-fi, if you remember Spock's resurrection in Star Trek. In that case it was a case of fan outrage to his death, which isn't totally dissimilar to this scenario. They can even claim that Luke's joining the Force was different than dying, therefor avoiding all the awkward questions. I also don't think that most fans would want or expect an explanation on the after life, knowing that it's a can of worms and would be subject to a lot more division and outrage. Besides, the stories of SW have always been about the living, and I don't expect that to change. As much as some fans might be curious about the state of "one with the Force", I think few would be outraged if the story didn't delve into that state or have some long explanation on Luke's part. I think the trick would be the pacing to make it impossible or illogical for Luke to stop and give a detailed explanation to his existence while with the Force.
     
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