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SPECULATION If Luke Is Alive Does Star Wars "Jump the Shark"?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Rayjefury, Mar 22, 2018.

  1. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    Luke is only going to appear in one more movie ever. And that's Episode IX as a force ghost.

    His story is done. They tied up all his loose ends.

    The only thing Luke can do now to contribute to the story is give Rey advice and haunt Kylo.

    What other reason is there to bring Luke back to life from a narrative sense?

    Just so you have one of the OT alive at the end of the ST?????

    They're never going to appear again anyway.

    Luke's story is done. People need to accept that.
     
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  2. Dr Jerrone

    Dr Jerrone Rebel Commander

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    And they had the voices in the Force-back in VII. I think the World Between Worlds isn't out of the realm of possibilities in IX.
     
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  3. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    His "sacrifice" doesn't make sense to me. Interceding to give the Resistance a chance to escape makes sense, but that he should die because he Force projected himself honestly feels as artificial (to me) as the prospect of him being alive. It didn't feel organic at all. That said, I assume (like everyone else) that Luke will return as a Force Ghost. Trying to bring him back alive (even with existing metadata) just... I just don't think it would work, at least not for a sizable swath of the fans.
     
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  4. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I have no idea how they'd pull it off.

    But if I limited my possibilities to what I personally could come up with, I'd be the kind of fan that I hate.

    Personally, I want to be surprised.
     
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  5. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I hear you, and I agree resurrection in the genre of sci fi or fantasy isn't uncommon, just hasn't happened in SW. I think there is a lot of latitude with doing what is impossible, plausibly in Fantasy/Sci Fi, but I also think that once you establish what your operating parameters are (however unlike they are than the real world) you have to operate within them (which I think is the legitimate criticism of Rey's force usage. They established what the operating parameters were, and then colored way outside the lines with her maturation).

    I would only oppose Luke coming back if I wasn't sure that it would be rooted in established parameters, that when examined, could not be aruged with.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 23, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 23, 2018 ---
    This is an EXCELLENT point. My counter would be that SW is obviously not driven just by narrative. And I don't think it's a given that they couldn't shoe horn him into a narrative, it's just a question of competent writing. My thought is, should they though? Just because they could, should they?
     
  6. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    They won't because there's no reason to.

    Would you have preferred Yoda return to life in TLJ?

    Of course not. Luke has reached the mastery of a Jedi, being a luminous ring beyond crewed matter.

    Have you ever watched Naruto @Rayefury?
     
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  7. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    :(
     
  8. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    Did not watch Naruto, it was/is pretty big with the generation 10 years younger than me though. And again, I believe SW has demonstrated they aren't beyond providing Fan Service, you may not see a narrative reason to, but that doesn't preclude the possibility of them doing it and then retroactively creating the narrative that requires Luke's return. I doubt that they will, but I don't think it's off the table altogether as an option.
     
  9. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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  10. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Kind of a separate topic, but Kylo kind of foreshadows this earlier in the film. He thinks Rey might be projecting herself, but says it can't be because it would kill her.

    It took an enormous amount of power to do what Luke did so it's not surprising it consumed him.
     
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  11. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I may have missed that. I'll go back to youtube to see if I can look up the Force Chats
     
  12. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Sith in the North
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    I am not convinced that the act of the force projection alone is what did him in, and believe that he could have survived had he truly wanted to. It almost seemed to me that after he pulled off the force maneuver, and survived, he decided that "You know what, I'm okay. Thinks will be okay. I made peace with myself. I can go now."

    This makes sense to me, I don't think it would be out of the question. And I probably wouldn't complain too much if it happened, but -- I feel the same way that you and many others do: at this point, why? Even for the sake of coming back, it seems that anything short of a lightsaber duel could still be accomplished through the use of a force ghost.
     
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  13. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I think that Luke will be a critical presence in episode 9, directing Rey towards her destiny, which, I believe, is to bring balance to the galaxy by cancelling out Kylo’s power. Luke’s gosht projection will not lecture or train Rey, but rather assist her in reaching Kylo’s source of darkness. I predict that Rey’s and Kylo’s final duel will be mixture of saber fighting, recrimination and emotions.

    Luke could not save kylo himself, but he may be able to save him through Rey.
     
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  14. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

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    Was perfect to me in an emotional way.
    An arch to Ben sacrifice in ANH also.
    A way to end his existence as a mith, a legend and inspire the new geration trough the galaxi (broom boy).
     
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  15. garakvsneelix

    garakvsneelix Clone Commander

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    Well, I'm not really sure if SW would jump the shark if Luke was alive - it may depend on the way, they would do it and the story, they would tell -, but for me, SW really would jump the shark, if they brought back Vader again...

    And: They would'n t jump the shark but even expand the distance to this point, if Snoke's death would turn out to be a fake...
     
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  16. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    This is an excellent point and I might agree if I bought that Force Projection is lethal. I mean they are other differences, Luke deliberately Force Projects to Crait for the purpose of confronting Kylo and perhaps subsequently (assessing the situation) realizing he just needed to buy the Resistance time, Obi Wan was merely pulled in with the Falcon onto the DS. I don't think he was looking to confront Vader, but since the confrontation happened I think he also subsequently assessed that he could stall to give Luke, Han, Leia, and Chewie time to escape. The death part of it felt contrived, but I am going to go back and look at some of the Force Chats in TLJ because apparently Kylo says something about the effects of doing Force Projection being something that could kill a person. I don't know if that means it could kill an upstart Force User, or kill anyone that used it period, but I'll go see.

    Also with Rey having the books, and there undoubtedly being a holocron somewhere still in the galaxy, I'm not sure we needed Luke's death on Crait to spread his legend (or really the legend of the Jedi). But that's speculation on my part.
     
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  17. Strategize

    Strategize Clone

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    I believe Luke can play a role in getting Rey and Ben on the same page. Therefore he can help fix his mistake without outright stealing the show from them.
     
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  18. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    The last part of the movie, Luke was just taking a nap and dreaming. After two years a Porg wakes Luke up with a kiss.
     
  19. panki

    panki Rebel Commander

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    At the outset, let me say that I don't think Luke will be alive in episode 9, and it reduces the great sacrifice he made at that moment to save the resistance and give the galaxy a symbol.

    But for the sake of argument, there is a canon way he could return in a physical form. One thing that is key for this is that Luke's cybernetic hand also vanishes when he has used up his strength for the force projection.

    Now going back to TCW, Mother Talzin sacrificed her life energies to restore the mind of her son Maul (which is an act of love, not selfishness). As a result, she was alive but trapped in the spirit world, unable to restore her physical form. However, she continued to guide Maul and Savage from the spirit world, even briefly taking shape sometimes in powerful places like the frangawl shrine on Bardotta or in the Nightbrother village on Dathomir. She returned to a proper physical state after absorbing enough living force from Dooku but was killed shortly after.

    [​IMG]

    In the TCW episode on Bardotta, Talzin even manages to manifest a flaming sword from the spirit realm and duel with Mace Windu. If something physical like a sword can be pulled out from the spirit world, then a cybernetic hand could also make its way into that world.

    In Luke's case, its impossible to imagine him stealing the living force from others etc.....but he can always appear from the spirit world (not as a force ghost but in a more concrete shape) on powerful locations like Ahch-to, Mustafar, Yavin etc to help Rey complete her training/guide her...maybe even spar with her as part of her training and finally become a force ghost or vanish into the force when his mission is complete.
     
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  20. aml435

    aml435 Rebelscum

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    I wouldn't be surprised if they sort of meet the two concepts in the middle (Force Ghost vs Luke the White).
    They already now established in 8 that a Force Ghost can physically interact with the real world (Yoda hitting Luke with the cane) and that before Luke "died" that he could project a physical form that passes for a live person.
    I could see them pull some, "Luke has become so in tune with the force that he has transcended physical form", so he can Force Project any time, any where, to continue training Rey or tormenting Kylo, but taking an Obi-Wan, "I cannot interfere." attitude toward the grander scheme of things, so that it remains Rey's story.
     
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