Ignoring the Star Wars haters

A commanding officer in a military setting not revealing plans to every subordinate is not only logical, it's expected. Even limiting the discussion to what happened in the film, if Poe had not discovered her plan, the First Order would not have either - so keeping those plans secret was clearly the right move.

Broom boy is more powerful than Anakin? Because he moved a broom? Anakin was using the Force when he was Pod Racing. That didn't require any training.

Calling Rey more powerful than Anakin is really stretching - but Broom Boy? You're undercutting your own argument with that one.

 

Which causes me to conclude that the critique as construed by the guy in the video is objectively bad. Exactly the kind of mistakes you'd expect when a novel author starts critiqueing a product of screenplay. I will save this video for future 'use'. Thanks

 

This thread is almost like a fish net.

 

Not to sound evil or anything (even though I am), but I do think all this hate is really quite fabulous.

People disturbingly cheered George Lucas off the franchise and proclaimed Disney a hero...and now two years later, fans are crying over how TLJ has shattered their dreams. Delicious!

 

Don't ostracize those just because they have a different opinion than you. I remember what it felt like to have fans at conventions snub you just because I hated the prequels. It's NOT okay to put criteria on what does and does not make a worthy fan on a forum like this. All opinions should be welcome.

What you can do is put some extinguisher on flaming BS. It's okay to have your own opinions, just not your own facts and when some trolls start spewing that TLJ was a financial disaster, that the brand is in trouble and that the brand has been usurped by a political movement to advance an agenda, these are not facts, they are BS.

There's a great article on Forbes just yesterday about the financial health of the franchise and the rousing financial success of TLJ and how Disney shareholders are ecstatic. The facts are in, the Star Wars brand is bigger and better than ever. The facts are in, America loves Star Wars again and the women in the film are a large reason why. Fact.

That's what I'd like to see, all should be welcome here, but don't scream your point of view as if its scientific. It isn't. We're fans. We think with our hearts and that heart of yours is allowed to dislike any installment you like, for whatever reason you want. But you can't interpret your opinion as data or fact.

And the facts are clear: Star Wars is winning, winning more than ever before and the marketplace loves what Disney is doing with the franchise. The franchise is winning despite the internet rage about SJWs. Turns out sock puppet noise from the bowels of the internet is largely meaningless. Money talks, rants on Youtube walk.

But those rants should be welcome here, but the BS in those rants, called out, teased out and exposed to the sunlight of the facts.

 

honestly did you not think calling the thread "ignoring the Star wars haters" wasn't gonna be interpreted the wrong way? Thier alot of people who love star wars but hate the last Jedi, a title like that was always going to be interpreted badly.

 

Yes, it’s always much easier to ignore dissenting opinions to make your own opinion sound like it is always the correct and more valuable one. Life is much easier that way isn’t it?

P.S. It isn’t a small minority of fans who dislike this film whether you care to admit it or not. The film is EXTREMELY divisive.

 

OR ELSE......................

 

I guess it doesn't matter how many times @DailyPlunge tells people to refer back to the first post in this thread - every page you get at least one person that will (intentionally?) misinterpret the point of the thread. And it's funny how often these posts are filled with the kind of condescending, flame-bait language seen above.

 

And there is an even better article in the Wall Street Journal today suggesting that The Last Jedi was a financial underachiever and that the future of SW while not in doubt is not as rosy as it was before the release of TLJ due in large part to how divisive it has been with it’s fanbase.
The title of the article is “The Last Jedi loses sales momentum, raising concerns for Disney” it continues by saying “the film fell about $200 million short of some analysts forecasts in the US and Canada and flopped in China”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-la...omentum-raising-concern-for-disney-1517245312

The article in Forbes you are referring to is by long time Star Wars apologist Scott Mendelson who admits that he doesn’t know if Episode 9 will even make as much money as TLJ and that Solo is in trouble. So even invoking the analyst you are referring to, the financial health of Star Wars is far from “bigger and better than ever” You’ll forgive me if I take the word of The Wall Street Journal over Scott Mendelson in financial matters.

 

I’d also argue that wording it like that was obviously to be misinterpreted, the title whether your intention or not comes across like it’s it is saying people who don’t like the last Jedi must hate Star Wars.

If that wasn’t your intention then fine but it comes across that you titled it that way to insite annoyance from people who didn’t like the film.

But if that wasn’t you intention I accept that I would just say be a bit more thoughtful in future.

 

I think these articles can be taken with a grain of salt. Just as in these forums, whether or not someone liked the movie can heavily influence their writing and wording. As for as analysts go, the only forecast that matters is what LFL/Disney expected and I have yet to see anything from them about any of it. Just other folks opinions, which as I said, can be influenced by your opinion of the movie.

 

That reason makes no sense at all!

But Anakin was the star of the PT and a major antagonist of the OT. Will Broom Boy be the new protagonist of future features?

From what I remember, Rey achieved as much in a shorter span of time and with almost no training than Anakin achieved even when he became Darth Vader. And Anakin is supposed to be the "Chosen One".

Will Broom Boy be the new "Chosen One"?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 30, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 30, 2018 ---

That makes no sense at all. In order to make that conclusion, you have to disprove his points, and you did not do that.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 30, 2018 ---

Again, the problem is not employing an SJW angle. It's doing it badly. I made that very clear in my posts.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 30, 2018 ---

The irony is that you did not follow your own advice because all of the opinions that you are supposed to welcome you automatically label as "flaming BS."

The problem isn't that the producers are "winning." It's that TLJ is badly written. Critics like Raney made that very clear. And yet his arguments are dismissed for no reason at all except through the illogical claim that a novelist can't criticize a screenplay even thought the latter follows the same principles as narrative literature involving plot, character, and setting.

Also, if the argument that "the marketplace loves what Disney is doing" a "scientific" point of view, then aren't you contradicting yourself again? Apparently, this fact doesn't involve "[thinking] with our hearts" but looking at how the marketplace reacts, which means box office revenues.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 30, 2018 ---

The catch is that what I and others have presented is valid criticism.

The problem is that I am being misinterpreted. For example, when I mentioned social justice points raised in the film, I was immediately accused of saying that the movie is badly written because it contains those points. But my argument is that it is badly written because it presented those points clumsily.

To recap, I don't see anything wrong with political arguments raised in commercial mass entertainment, as even the OT and PT did such. The problem with this film is that it does so clumsily, and I made that clear in my posts.

There are many ways to avoid these writing problems (again, already mentioned by Raney and others, so I don't have to mention them here), but I am sure that they were not made because critics are merely "Star Wars haters."

 

According to the Urban Dictionary, a "fanboy" is - "Known for a complete lack of objectivity in relation to their preferred focus. Usually argue with circular logic that they refuse to acknowledge. Arguments or debates with such are usually futile. Every flaw is spun into semi-virtues and everything else, blown to comedic, complimentary proportions."

Can someone PLEASE explain how those who DIDN'T like the movie are called fanboys, and yet those who DID love the movie aren't?

Seems to me, those accusing others of being fanboys need to take a look in the mirror.

 

The OP left it relatively open to interpretation. Many people who like TLJ have been vocal to ignore people who don't like the movie, stating that their reasons are "idiotic" or often times worse.

The OP specifically stated those that are harassing others, but a lot of TLJ sympathizers get offended and probably feel harassed if someone even sneezes "TLJ sucks". Between the article he quotes, his title and his statements, people on both sides of the argument can come to their own interpretation.

I'm sure there are cases to be made for harassment (chasing people around forums, disliking or worse anything posted), but I don't think it's only a phenomena solely linked to SW "haters".

Personally, I think the advice is good. If you are feeling too offended by those who dislike the movie, ignore them. If that gives you peace of mind, by all means, the tools are available to you to block people, and that goes for both sides. If you choose not to and dive into the fray, expect to take your licks as well as dish them out. Better yet, listen to the opposing opinion with an open mind, it probably won't change your mind, but at least you'll be more likely to understand their stance.

 

Raney sounds like an earnest guy. Some of his criticisms seem a bit extreme though.

He assumes Luke's aware of the state of the galaxy (even though Luke's been offline for 8 years).
He claims Rey is all-powerful and devoid of character development - (conveniently ignoring her (& Luke's) massive existential crisis).
He claims there's no point in Rey going to the island because

she doesn't receive any training - (Ach-Too is where Ben schools Rey on her greatest weakness and Luke schools her about The Living Force and the Jedi).
and the connection could happen anywhere - (as if somewhere Luke can react isn't a good storytelling choice).​

He also seems to read linear growth rates and comparative hierarchies of Force power levels that don't really serve a narrative purpose in SW - especially ones that tend to conflate power with strength. The guy says he sees Luke's retreat when Rey pulls a saber on him as a sign Rey is "stronger".

He's so hurt about his concept of coward Luke that he completely misses how the path from Hero Luke to Coward Luke to Legend Luke (and Rey's part in it) is great character development.

He got the question right...

"I don't know why the critics of this star wars movie are giving a movie with this level of storytelling and character developing a pass?"

...but the wrong answer.

(a) some kind of "critic conspiracy"

or​

(b) you are under a misapprehension.

 

Which part confuses you? The part about commanding officers not sharing plans with everyone below them? Or the part about Poe discovering Holdo's plan being the thing that lead to the plan's failure?

What does one thing have to do with the other? You said Broom Boy was more powerful than Anakin. This statement has absolutely nothing to do with what you wrote, or how I responded.

I don't know what movies you're watching. To this point Rey hasn't done one thing that would be beyond Darth Vader's ability. She overpowered the mind of soldier programmed from birth not to think for himself, called a lightsaber to her hand, and won a fight against a wounded, emotionally unbalanced opponent that was not trying to kill her. And she lifted some rocks. What part of that makes her more powerful than Darth Vader?

And why do you keep asking if Broom Boy is going to be the Chosen One, or the Protagonist of future movie? He moved a broom 6 inches. How does that lead you to him being the new chosen one?