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"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck." OWK

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Sparafucile, Feb 21, 2018.

  1. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    I always assumed this was a throw away line that showed Obi-Wan's conviction in the power of the Force, but not necessarily fact. On here some fans seem to believe it is SW canon and fact.

    It can explain anything and everything that happens. (Anakin's shot, Luke's shot, Rey's abilities ect...). I'm not interested in debating Rey or Rey vs XXX (it's interesting, but there are other threads to explore that), but mostly the line itself. Is it SW fact and canon, or just meant to depict the belief of an old Jedi, the observation of a man and how he views his personal history and life experience?

    I always believed in the latter, because even in SW I'm sure there are mundane groups who have raffles, there are probably lotteries and such too, as well as natural disasters (wrong place, wrong time, bad luck). People winning those is not skill or the will of the Force (or God's divine intervention, if you believe in him, in our world) but rather simply luck. Happenstance, coincidence, ect.... I think it exists in SW because I strongly believe in it's existence in our world, and I believe the SW world tries to mimic ours in rudimentary and basic ways such as this, for the most part.

    But I'm curious what your opinion is? Is my view against SW canon? Is it even open for debate (in your opinion)? Am I right (mostly right, partially right) in your opinion? Have you not really given it much thought?

    However, that's not to say that the Force cannot influence luck, but it is done mostly on an individual level (Qui-Gon/Watto dice toss), but less so as a sentient Force being looking at each individual thread of life and making a grand thing happen for its own purposes with a thought to every thread. Now, I'm not completely against that idea, but I don't think it does this for every natural or man made phenomena (lotteries and such) that exist in the SW world. However the details of Anakin's birth would suggest it could on some level do this.
     
    #1 Sparafucile, Feb 21, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2018
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  2. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    "In my experience" is almost like saying "In my opinion"

    Lucas was telling us something about Obi Wan's character with this. Obi Wan was calculated, and didn't want to rely on anything outside himself.
     
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  3. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    I take an agnostic view on luck/karma. Can't b proven or disproved.
     
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  4. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Taken by itself, it can read as anecdotal. But when you compare it with the other exchanges between OB1 and Han, you notice a trend. The two have opposing viewpoints, but Obi’s is always the correct one (well, more correct anyhow).
    Obi-Wan: Your father's lightsaber...not as clumsy or as random as a blaster.
    Han: Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.

    Obi-Wan: The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.
    Han: I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything.

    Obi-Wan: Destroyed by the Empire!
    Han: The entire starfleet couldn't destroy the whole planet.

    Obi-Wan: It'd be as well to let it go. It's too far out of range.
    Han: Not for long.

    Obi-Wan: That's no moon! It's a space station.
    Han: It's too big to be a space station.

    Han: They're not going to get me without a fight!
    Obi-Wan: You can't win. But there are alternatives to fighting.

    Han: Damn fool. I knew that you were going to say that!
    Obi-Wan: Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?
    So, when Han links Luke’s use of the Force with ‘luck’, and OB replies there is no luck, the pattern would contend that Obi-Wan is right and Han is wrong. Was he just being hyperbolic though? Maybe, but it’s not a totally crazy interpretation to take him literally.
     
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  5. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Yeah, I think in a way it's the Jedi version of "everything happens for a reason".

    I'm sure random happenstance is a thing in Star Wars, at least outside of the meta-view of "of course all of the events are related, because of narrative structure and planning".

    However, it's possible that this is a viewpoint that Obi Wan has that is enhanced by his own experiences as a Jedi. For instance, consider the dice roll with Watto before Anakin's race. Watto would've viewed that roll as a luck based thing, but Qui Gon fixed it via the Force. So, in situations like that, the Jedi actually are able to mitigate luck. Obviously, though, they should be aware that not all beings are capable of that.
     
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  6. Mike

    Mike Rebel General

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    Much of it comes from Lucas's belief in fate, that while we all make our own choices, there is a fate, or a destiny that we are beholden to in small ways. With that said though, Lucas always has said that when the time comes, we do have a choice to fulfill our fate/destiny, or go along a different path.

    For example, it was not luck that Leia's ship was at Tatooine, there was a specific reason for it, and that had a rippling effect that started Luke onto his Destiny. It wasn't luck that Luke wasn't at the homestead when the stormtroopers murdered his Aunt and Uncle. It was fate that he not be there.

    If you want to put it in a religious sort of way, it would probably come close to being considered Faith, that someone should have Faith that everything is happening for a reason, and we aren't at the mercy of randomness.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 21, 2018 ---
    As for Qui Gon, Watto, and the dice. I've always seen this as a bad omen. Jedi are not supposed to use their powers to alter another persons fate. This is the reason why Obi Wan can't help Luke in ESB when Luke chooses to confront Vader. It is at this point where Luke's fate will be decided by his choices, and Obi Wan cannot interfere.

    With the dice, I saw it as a bad omen, because Qui Gon is using the Force to purposely interfere in an outcome, instead of believing in the Force and that the Force will guide their way. Everything in TPM has Qui Gon telling people to believe in the Force and that the Force will guide them, until that moment. IMO, it was a way for Lucas to foreshadow that there were bad things on the horizon for Anakin.
     
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