In-progress Google Doc compilation of The Last Jedi rumors/spoilers

To be clear, both I and @Pomojema denounced it a while back, and our arguments didn't just lie on the fact that it had the same number of tracks and similar track names to open and close the film to TFA.

Let's see...

• It has the same number of tracks (23) - which would be the first time the second part of a SW trilogy had the same number of tracks as its predecessor, as well as the first time that two scores in a row by John Williams had the exact same number of tracks - and the Main Title is once again titled "Main Title and The Attack On [insert new planet name here]".

• There are other similarities too. For instance, tracks 17 and 18 of this track listing refer to "The Eclipse" and "Snoke Arrives", which is way too close to TFA's "Snoke" being Track 17 to be merely a coincidence. Furthermore, Track 11 - "Kylo Ren Arrives" - of this track listing isn't too far off TFA's Track 13 - "Kylo Ren Arrives at the Battle"; tracks 19 and 20 of this listing, "Leia's Sacrifice" and "Ben Solo" are too close to Han's sacrifice in TFA, which lines up with Track 19 of TFA, "Torn Apart". The similarities in Track sequence from this track listing to TFA's is astonishingly close, so I'll be surprised if this turns out to be real.

• Also, "Snoke Arrives", "Leia's Sacrifice", "Ben Solo", "Return of the Jedi" and other tracks are so descriptive that I'd argue that this is "Qui-Gon's Noble End" levels of stupidity on show.

• The damning piece of evidence, though, seems to be "The Eclipse" - i theorised years back that Snoke's ship would be the Eclipse, based on some text in the TFA visual guide about many fearing that a much larger ship than The Finalizer was amongst the First Order's fleet, but, barring some strange promotional stance on LFL's behalf, we've already been made aware that Snoke's ship is titled The Supremacy, and not The Eclipse as I had previously theorised.

 

I really wish you're right.
On one side we may have the "heir" feeling ususrped.
Oscar said Leia's believes Poe to be a surrogate child and Luke's going to train Rey...

But... on the other side,we know that Leia slaps Poe and Luke and Rey are going to have their own problems

Interesting dynamics... massinve family and/or surrogate family drama.

I'd love that.

 

The only real thing there is the change of the name of Snokes ship. Which even still, could "eclipse" the sun in Crait, we don't know...

But this was written quite a bit ago, and does seem to fit a lot of the outline. And official released info.

Whether or not it fits the same flow and title structure of the TFA soundtrack isn't "debunked" to me....for all you know, Disney and LFL could have DECIDED they wanted to set the soundtracks up similar on purpose. We don't know...

And it all may be bunk, some very good guesses by a random redditor...

But it does line up a lot with the outline we all accept now, especially after the 2nd Trailer, and it was written way before....

It's worth some discussion, IMO.

 

Sure, it's worth some discussion, and I think it would certainly be an interesting topic of discussion.

I think it's extremely likely to be bantha fodder, considering that I could have looked at TFA's track listings, made a few educated guesses about the direction TLJ is heading - based on rumour, trailers and interviews - and come up with something eerily similar myself.

I suppose the best question to ask is: why should we treat this any differently to the way we're treating what are more-than-likely fake leaks regarding the plot of the film?

I'm not seeing a shred of evidence which suggests that there's any reason to believe that any of this is true - and if it turns out to be the case, then I will be the first to admit that I was wrong - and there are certainly many, many more clues suggesting it to be false than there are true, yet you seem reluctant to admit as much.

Finally, I think it's worth pointing out that LFL and Disney have little-to-nothing to do with the structure of an OST, let alone naming its pieces.

 

It's no big deal. I just thought it was interesting.

 

Kylo Ren TIE Silencer possibly headed for the interior bay.

 

And the next thing I wanted to add: does the shot of him and the Lightsaber follow after that?

 

it looks similar

 

For sure after the Silincer/Raddus scene (his scar is uncovered here, no patch).
But I believe you were asking if it is after or before the "Kylo offers his hand scene" in which case
I suppose we only can wait and see.

 

There are so many particulates in the background that look like ash or water droplets - it has to take place somewhere there is lots of fire, some falling water, and darkness.

Possible options

• Flashback to Jedi Academy
• Burning down the tree, outside the tree in the rain (possibly even under the eves of the Falcon)
• Deep inside the rebel base on Crait
• Facing off with someone on the Supremacy after all hell breaks loose

If it is in the Rebel Base on Crait, then I could see this scene immediately preceding him turning off his sword and then extending a hand. Maybe he even wipes out his own flametrooper troops.

If it is in the Jedi Academy, then my question would be who is he facing off against? No the burried Luke - someone else?

If it is at the tree, then it would be near the same scene with Luke in the rain saying, "this isn't going to go the way you think." however in that shot, there is no fire yet nor lit swords nearby (else there would be glow on the face)

If it is on the hanger, then there's a chance it is aimed a Luke Rey or possibly even Finn.

 

It couldn't be a flashback. He has the scar from Rey's lightsaber.

 

About the tree...



Sure in the imagine from the trailer, there's a lot of fog... Still, it seems to me that the tree is already burned.

IMO, it burned in an ancient past.

Ad that's when the Jedi Order - as it was later known - was founded.
That order raised from the ashes of that tree on Ahch to. Metaphorically speaking.

The Jedi Order Symbol and the new (by that time) Jedi temples took the shape of the Ahch To's tree...
Which was the first Jedi Temple itself.

It's not coincidence, that that shape (that of the Jedi Order symbol and that of the jedi temples) is also very similar to that of phoenix...
In fact the phoenix dies and then arises again from the ashes of its predecessor.

Back to trailer, you only hear 5 people speaking.

Luke and Snoke, tell us that Rey and Kylo "share" a raw power.
Kylo's words are the words of someone who knows/believes he has to become/do something very specific.
Rey doesn't know - reverse of Kylo - what her role has to be....

My take is that Snoke, Luke and Kylo know something.
That an era "has" to end.
A cycle has to end. And we must read Luke's words "It's time for the Jedi to end" into this context.
It's not his plan. It's what he accepeted as something he cannot prevent.

But this cycle cannot end... peacefully.

And in fact the only words not spoken by one of those 4 characters are:
"We are the spark that will light the fire to burn the first order down"

If we're going to see in the movie the Tree of Ahch to, burning....
It won't be something happening in the timeline of TLJ.
I believe it will be shown as something happened in that anciet past to signify (and to explain) not only what happened
but that history repeats itself.

That said, if Kylo's scene are under or next that tree, then it will be a vision.
Or he's elsewhere.

 

Is that Crait and is that the Supremacy crashing (people have speculated about that in the past) or something else?

 

Seems to me that the Force Tree is in the upper right corner. Shape looks right. I originally thought it was water in the background, on the left, but it's also on the right, and appears to be falling at the same angle as the particulates on the left appear to be falling. May not be water at all. Could be rain, but he's not wet at all, and he'd have to be to have gotten into a cave, under the Falcon, etc.

I think we've generally assumed that's a planet on the left, and that this might be a ship exploding.

 

I found this complete TLJ entire plot theory and I found it very convincing, very tied to the google doc compilation linked in this thread and very fitting.

What guys do you think?

I have only 2 partial disagreements with the author; first that Kylo will not kidnap Rey on Ahch-To but she will go willingly with him, and second I still believe that at the end of the movie Kylo won't kill Luke and will start instead a redemption path (thing that the author of this theory believes not to be the case); however all the rest of this plot theory makes totally sense to me and I believe it has a 99% chance to be correct.

 

You all can read in my previous comments that I was already skeptical (and why) about the "Kylo goes to Ahch To"
sequence as it was reported months ago by MSW.

This morning I listened to the latest episode of their podcast and...
Jason is now saying that perhaps all the KOR on Ahch To stuff may have been just... a ruse.

I believe - and we all have to agree with that - that the only thing we can take for granted
is that Adam filmed something in Ireland. But what?

I'm 90% sure at this point, that those scenes, they are not going to go how that old leak suggested.

And that's why people at MSW are now saying that Kylo is on Ahch to for sure, but all the rest may have been a ruse.

That said, I think that Kylo on Ahch To will be a vison, a long, articulated one, only because that may be more fitting with
the rest of things we know.
Not 100% sure about it (that it's going be a vision) of course, but... I cannot see how his actual presence there at that point of the movie
may help the plot.

 

The problem with Kylo not going on Ahch-To is how will Rey find herself in Snoke's Throne Room on the Supremacy later on the movie but before the final stage on Crait? Will she go all alone from Ahch-To to the mega ship, and without Luke? (She will take literally Luke's advice "Leave from this place" that the Luke toy speaks) And wIll she succeed to sneak in the Supreme Leader Room or will be captured by Kylo or someone else once on board of the Supremacy and then taken to Snoke? Even if the above scenarios could happen I found them improbable ones, and I believe that the 2 scenarios that make most sense are that Kylo will go on Ahch-To and that he will kidnap her or will convince her to follow him after some lightsaberish fight between them.

 

Let's say he does go and that Rey does one of the thing you're saying...
What about Luke?
Does he die or what?
And if so, why Rian said that the dynamics between Luke and Rey is the beating heart of the movie, not that Kylo + Rey?

But above all, what should be the climax of the movie? How can you build it without screwing it all?
If you have, first Kylo on Ahch to, then Rey + Snoke, what may happen in the finale that may still "surprise" you
or just give you a bigger emotion than those previous scenes?

And how can it be not redundant, at best?
How can it be not built up, but... foretold, if so?

I see more likely, Kylo's and Rey's arcs built up separately, to a point where it may make a lot more sense for them to face each other
and for us see what the consequeces are. I say, give them more time, and the result may be far more interesting and compelling, whatever it is.

Rey may reach the Supremacy to help Finn and Rose or - why not - she may be part from the beginning of the same mission.
If Chewie is on the Raddus, there are huge chances that Rey shows up there. Not on Crait or on the Supremacy.
And the Raddus is probably going to be evacueted, before the mission to the Supremacy or during it.